Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: Horse Lovers And Activists Saving Slaughter-bound Equines
Emily Murdoch, an Itchmo reader, is a writer, runs a dog rescue, and is also part of a horse rescue in the state of Washington. She recently wrote this article and sent us it to bring attention to horse slaughter and the group’s mission to save as many horses as possible from slaughterhouses.
Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: Horse Lovers And Activists Saving Slaughter-bound Equines
By Emily Murdoch
They shoot horses, don’t they? Isn’t that the saying? Would it shock you to know that a bullet would be infinitely kinder, than the harsh reality that befalls so many of our unwanted American horses?
Slaughter, and the slaughter pipeline, is no place for a horse. At livestock auctions, where unlucky horses are paraded before a crowd for that needle-in-a-haystack chance of being purchased by a loving family, horses are more often purchased by Kill Buyers, who make their living off horse meat. Kill Buyers often purchase young, sound, impeccably trained riding horses whose families or past owners believed would find a good home. They purchase horses dumped at auction by irresponsible breeders and people who want to squeeze that last buck out of a horse, regardless of its fate. Some of the horses have been abused and neglected; some have been starved and are fattened up at feedlots before being shipped. Some of the horses are wild horses, who never stood a chance; some are stolen horses leaving behind frantic owners who fear the worst.
Americans have been led to believe that only old, sick or crippled horses go to slaughter, if they‘re even aware of slaughter at all. But it’s simply untrue. Horse slaughter is America’s dirty little secret. Horses, which the American Veterinary Medical Association classifies as “companion animals†(pets), are rounded up and essentially tortured to death to satisfy foreign palettes.
A painful, fear-filled, inhumane fate awaits over 100,000 of our American horses each year. Because the last operating American slaughterhouse, Cavel International in Illinois, was ordered shut down on April 6th, 2007, the horses have been rerouted to the slaughterhouses of Canada and Mexico. In Mexico, the slaughter plants render horses with a knife stabbed into the horses’ back repeatedly until the spinal cord is severed. The animals are then lifted up by chains, their throats slit, and bled to death, often while still conscious, with waiting horses looking on.
I found out about horse slaughter four years ago, while working on a novel. Wanting to round out the main character, and living in the West, I decided to make the character a horse rescuer, then set about researching the subject on the internet. What sort of horses need rescue? Where do rescued horses come from? What I learned horrified, outraged and profoundly changed me. How did I not know about horse slaughter before? How in a civilized country built by the horse, and where Americans don’t eat horsemeat, are we betraying and exporting our national heritage for foreign consumption?
Vowing to do my part, and now four years later, if you looked outside my living room window you would see two horses and a donkey grazing in the corral, saved from slaughter and the horrors that await so many other American horses, donkeys and mules. The reality is, far from being old, crippled or useless, these equines were young, sound, and desperately in need of someone who cared.
During my research I came across Columbia Basin Equine Rescue, or CBER, a horse rescue group in Washington state that works with horses presently on the feedlots. From their website, you can place a beautiful face and kind eyes on the slaughter statistics, and view horses presently on “death rowâ€. And you can even do something about it — adopt one of these feedlot horses, or, make a donation to save a horse’s life. CBER is hands on, working in the emotional trenches as they evaluate each horse and post their availability on the internet. There are days when no more can be done; the truck that takes the horses to slaughter pulls up and with many tears shed, another unfortunate group of unadopted horses is loaded and whisked away. Their photos are taken down and moved to the “In Memory†page of CBER‘s website.
It’s time to stop the inhumane and callous exploitation of American horses. Support the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act, which prohibits United States slaughterhouses from processing horses for food to be sold in Europe and Asia, and bans the exportation of live horses to Mexico and Canada for slaughter. Write your Senators, your Representatives, your President and let them know the murder of American horses is unacceptable. Start an Anti-Slaughter petition, sign an Anti-Slaughter petition, educate family and friends, and educate yourself. Don’t turn away and do nothing, now that you know; the horses need your outrage and your compassion. There are so many things in life we can’t control; the slaughtering of America’s horses is not one of them.
For more information:
Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: www.columbiabasinequinerescue.org
Shark: Showing Animals Respect and Kindness: http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000528
1st Photo: This is Kiva Glow, being ridden and evaluated by Jeff, a horse trainer, and a rider for CBER. Kiva Glow was shipped to slaughter on 8-13-07, after time ran out. His ad for a second chance read: 20 year old, 14.2h, roan BLM gelding. He ties, and easy to tack up. He was good to ride but does not appear to know much. Split reined and neck reined a little, does not respond well to leg pressure. Just a little refresher course is all he would need. He was sure footed as many mustangs are and was sound at time of assessment. Picked up his feet gentle and willingly.
2nd Photo: Peter was on the feedlot in July of 2007. His ad for a second chance read: Very sweet yearling QH/TB, halter broke & very very friendly. Would make someone a great project. In the photo, he is one-year-old. He stands with his new owner, 14-year-old Alyssa. Which fate do you think a horse would choose, if a horse could choose his fate?
3rd Photo: Shipping Day: “Despite the best efforts of CBER and it’s supporters, not all the horses can be saved. The best way to save all of the horses from slaughter is to support the Anti-Slaughter Legislation for American Horses.”
To see more photos, visit http://columbiabasinequinerescue.org/DEF-ShippingDay.asp
October 11th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
I really wish that I had not read this article because I am so sick to my stomach now. I wish I could go down and grab up everyone of them and save them. How heart wrenching! HOW can this be stopped?!
October 11th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Well, I may not be able to help financially but I just googled ’sign an Anti-Horse Slaughter petition’ and found several….so I’ll be busy for a while.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
There is a lot of controversy regarding CBER. Many people don’t consider them a rescue at all–since what they do is solicit money to “rescue” the horses, which in turn puts money in the feed lot owner’s pocket, enabling him to buy even more horses to then sell to meat dealers.
Read this blog http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blog.....-year.html for more information.
October 11th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
To think that any of our fellow humans could kill a horse in this manner is just to horrible to comprehend. Your description of slaughter of these intellegent and noble horses makes me want to cry and vomit at the same time. Growing up with horses and loving them deeply makes this story very hard to take. Barbaric acts like this just shouldn’t happen to one of America’s most prized and depended on beasts of burden, mules and donkeys included. I will go the those websites mentioned above and sign, sign, sign. And GodBless those people who were able to save a horse, any horse.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Why do they still go to slaughter if they are not adopted? Why doesn’t CBER just humanely euthanize them? I’m confused.
October 11th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
This is so horrible, horrible, horrible. It’s one of those things that really makes you question humanity.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
There will always be disgruntled folk who talk down a rescue, and who also forget it’s about THE HORSES! Saving a horse means paying its ransom, even to the Kill Buyer. The Kill Buyer buys the horse. Horses aren’t free.
Claudia — euthanization takes money. An unadopted horse belongs to the KillBuyer, not the rescues, UNLESS it’s adopted. Which, again, takes money.
October 11th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
I adopted out a horse I outbid the killbuyer on at auction through CBEr and I also adopted a horse from them. I had a great experience and the horse I adopted from them is a wonderful 12yr old AQHA mare.
I fully support thier mission. They welcome questions and inquiries regarding why they operate the way they do. I have found them honest. I did my research before I chose to adopt, I read about bad experiences and good experiences, I queried
October 11th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
There are thousands of horses available for adoption or rescue on petfinder.com. Talk it up with your friends and relatives. As you see, these are not the old, crazy or crippled that pro-slaughter folks would have you believe. Every life saved makes room for another to come into a program. If you can’t adopt, or foster, support these folks who are trying to do what’s best for the equines….donkeys and mules are in this too. Prices are thru the roof for grain, gas and hay - all necessities not to mention farriers and vet costs. There is an over-population problem in the equine world too with backyard breeders not to mention racing industry. Times may be tougher before we pass the AHSPA but we can do it if we all stick together and help in whatever way we can!!
October 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I love CBER, I’ve adopted several horses from them and they are all the loves of my life. They would have been food for some human overseas and that thought makes me absolutely sick. I thank CBER for the thousands of horses saved from that fate. Rescues are always judged so I wouldn’t pay much attention to the haters out there, they are just negative beings with I guess nothing better to do :) LOVE YOU CBER!!!!
October 11th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Seldom has their been a so-called “rescue” that has given all other rescues such a bad name, but Columbia Basin has accomplished just that. They are in reality, not a rescue at all. They are a middleman for a kill buyer - marketing his horses for him, and tacking on $450 for themselves PER HORSE! For more information on these skilled con-artists, please check out http://www.speakforthehorses.com/CBER.htm This is all facts that were taken right off their own bulletin boards before they took them down. The real rescues out there NEED your help. CBER is not a real rescue.
October 11th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Seldom has their been a so-called “rescue” that has given the term “rescue” such a bad name, but Columbia Basin has accomplished just that. They are in reality, not a rescue at all. They are a middleman for a kill buyer - marketing his horses for him, and tacking on $450.00 PER HORSE FOR THEMSELVES! They refuse to reduce their fees in any way, even to keep a horse safe.
For more information on these skilled con-artists, please check out http://www.speakforthehorses.com/CBER.htm This is all facts that were taken right off their own bulletin boards before they took them down. The real rescues out there NEED your help. CBER is not a real rescue.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
RIP OFF”S They are in it for the money not the horses they have given several hundred thousand dollars to this kill buyer to go buy more horses to keep them in business!
http://www.speakforthehorses.com
October 11th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Well, CBER is losing ground everywhere so I guess it’s not surprising that they would be working on PR. Please everyone do your research on this organization before donating. Google is your friend (try googling CBER Rescue for a start).
October 11th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
ATTENTION READERS! This blog has been infiltrated by pro-slaughter wonks who stop at nothing to advance their pro-slaughter agenda. They are a powerful constiutency, backed by the cattle industry, and obviously have enough time on their bloody hands to attack a horse rescue, for goodness sakes! SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!!
October 11th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Like I said, do your research. Google is your best friend. Try googling “CBER Rescue” and read what people have to say about this “rescue” operation.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:49 pm
CBER is such a great rescue. It was nice to finally find a rescue that did not require a site check as that’s such a pain. Most rescues had problems with my barb wire but they where fine with it. I really appreciated the help I received as all the adoption fees were paid for by donors. I had never heard of a rescue that gave away free horses before this. The only down side was that my horse does have a gimp to his step when I ride him so I don’t gallop him down the streets as much as I would like. I think I may try & raise some money soon for the vet to come out and see him. Anyhow, I would absolutely recommend adopting from CBER. If it doesn’t work out you can always sell the horse and get another.
October 11th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
CBERLover, you’re hysterical. And - right on!!!!
October 11th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
The feedlot horses deserve homes, regardless of the politics around them. Go tell the ones on the feedlot, that because they are owned by kill buyers, they don’t deserve saving. ???? That sounds real humane. Right.
So, let’s blame a rescue group saving these forgotten horses for everything — for humanity’s inhumanity, that slaughter pipeline horses dragged around from lots to auctions and corraled with other strange horses may get sick, that slaughter exists, that Kill Buyers exist, that people are horrible and dump their horses, that it costs money to buy horses and to operate a rescue, that horses cost money, period, (that the world is round, that the sky rains sometimes … )
Now, let’s go tell those equines standing on these feedlots as we speak, screw you, horse! You’re tangled in the barbed wire of politics and haters, and it’s more important than your life. You don’t count, because your ransom fee goes to a KB. As a matter of fact, let me help you up into the slaughter truck myself, right now — watch your step — Ho! Good dead horsie!
October 11th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
PRO SLAUGHTER PEOPLE, GO AWAY AND EAT A HAMBURGER!
October 11th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
I hate slaughter. Slaughter is evil!!!
October 11th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I don’t know where the pro-slaughter remarks are coming from. I am totally against horse slaughter, in any way, shape, or form. I have one rescued horse right now, and donate money to legitimate horse rescues.
Now humane euthanasia, that’s a different story.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
I bought a horse from CBER too. Unfortunately, it was completely and totally misrespresented. Not only was the horse not the breed they said it was, but it was also not the heighth they said, and it was LAME! They refused to take the horse back after they had my money too. I ended up giving the horse away and they didn’t even ask where it went. Since they never had me sign a adoption contract, it was easy to do. Instead, I got a bill of sale. Is this normal for a “rescue”?
October 11th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
I admit it, I have a personal grudge against the people who run CBER. Perhaps I was “rescuing” this horse for the wrong reasons. I’m sorry I couldn’t make a dime off of it.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
“Now humane euthanasia, that’s a different story.” HUH?
You’re against that TOO ??? Oh my.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:40 pm
To Darla: I’m aware of a lot of people like that. The author of fuglyhorseoftheday blog was sold a horse by CBER who turned out to be much older than advertised as well as 90% blind! The horse was shipped to Los Angeles to this woman. Fortunately for the horse, this is an ethical human being and the horse will be cared for the rest of its life. Many other CBER “placements” aren’t so lucky.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
So sad that the people who have disagreements about CBER feel that their need to bash CBER is more important then all the good this article could have done in helping the horses. This article was about helping horses and educating the public about slaughter… these people obviously feel that their own hate is more important to voice then the fate of the horses themselves.
October 11th, 2007 at 7:58 pm
I have adopted 4 horses from CBER. Thank you CBER for saving their lives! Please see their story here:
http://columbiabasinequineresc.....pe=Success
I hope after reading this article everyone considers rescuing a horse rather then breeding one. We have so many horses in America that are going to slaughter, please consider adopting a horse instead of breeding. Horses of all breeds, colors, training and ages go to slaughter.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Oh no! I didn’t mean that I was against euthanasia! I meant that I didn’t believe in horse slaughter.
I certainly believe that many horses are better off being humanely euthanized.
I guess I could have worded it better :-(
October 11th, 2007 at 8:06 pm
“I certainly believe that many horses are better off being humanely euthanized.”
Under what circumstances is ANY horse not better off being humanely euthanized than slaughtered?
I don’t understand how you can be pro-slaughter, under any circumstances.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
“I certainly believe that many horses are better off being humanely euthanized.”
Under what circumstances is ANY horse better off being slaughtered than humanely euthanized?
I just don’t understand how you can support ANY horse being sent to slaughter.
October 11th, 2007 at 8:12 pm
The 2nd comments from Darla are not mine. Someone is obviously trying to add to what I say and make it look like I said it. How nice!
October 11th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Literally thousands of horses have been prevented the suffering and terror of transport to Canada and ultimately slaughter thanks to CBER and their volunteers. As some of you have mentioned, there is a substantial amount of CBER criticism. I challenge ANY rescue to place this many animals and consequently deal with thousands of individuals without problems arising. My experience has been that CBER reacts to problems by looking for a solution. What more can we ask?
They do not own the horses. The horses belong to a feedlot owner who allows them to post the horses and their info. He calls the shots. If he wants to ship horses and CBER has not succeeded in placing the listed horses, he ships them to slaughter. Can you imagine how terrible this is for the folks who spend their days working to find homes for the horses?
A few disgruntled individuals cannot be assuaged. They have built websites around their animosity for CBER and apparently devote their lives to ‘the cause’. If only they could use that energy to rescue horses and/or put an end to slaughter. CBER’s mission is to prevent gruesome deaths for the feedlot horses.
I have adopted seven horses from them. Although CBER is not perfect, not much in life is. My horses are treasured members of the family, perfect in their way and I know that CBER made an undeniable difference in their lives.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
Literally thousands of horses have been forced to endure suffering and terror and sent to deaths because CBER throws money at a killer buyer who turns around and buys more horses to kill with it. He buys them for a couple of hundred or less, CBER sells some of them for him for 500-800 and he goes out and buys more. It is a never ending cycle. CBER makes a tidy chunk o change for themselves. They need the killer buyer and he needs them. They never talk much about the truckloads of horses threy help send to slaughter that they call the no-hopers or canners.
October 11th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Here’s a link to many of the horses that CBER has saved from a brutal death, and this is only in the last 15 months. There are hundreds more.
http://www.columbiabasinequine.....pe=Adopted
October 11th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Why not just make it simple? You save horses your way and let CBER save horses its way. Then twice as many horses are saved from slaughter and that’s the whole point, isn’t it? Until their is a shortage of horses to save, it just doesn’t make any sense that people who are in it for the horses would bash rescues.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Same tired old hacks at it again.
We can make a difference to these horses and we are doing so…
Make your outrage about equine slaughter known to your politicians…
Educate!
Increase awareness about the plight of slaughter bound horses- so many people do NOT know that people still kill horses.
Stop backyard breeding.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:59 am
Thank you so much for the nicely written article. I have four CBER horses and have supported the rescue of others. I have conducted my business with CBER in a professional way and in turn have received excellent service from them. For a small group of volunteers they do an amazing job. Buying a horse from a lot based on a brief description and a picture is a gamble. I enjoy rolling the dice and seeing what I get. The joy comes from taking a lost soul and giving the horse a chance. It can be costly and full of surprises but that is the spirit of rescue.
October 12th, 2007 at 1:19 am
Well, all I can say they (CBER) save a lot of horses that would have been dinner.. for some folks in Europe..
I wish they could save them all.. we need to ban export of horses to Canada and Mexico…. The horses need to stay home and we need to fix the problems here and not export the poor horses..
If you had to live a day in the hoofs of our horses.. you would ban slaughter. I don’t think any human would want to be on the dinner plate in Europe. We don’t eat cats .. dogs…. pets…. horses are not dinner here.. we have higher standards.. but it’s ok if it’s a dirty secret… in the US
Stop the killing… walk a mile in the hoofs of our horses… see if you would want to do it…
October 12th, 2007 at 1:45 am
Same old same old. No one is against horses being saved. Many who have no respect for CBER have a lot of respect for other rescues, in the same state.
Just think how many more horses CBER could save - now and IN THE LONG RUN - if it always gave proper medical care and training to the horses in its QT, if it really DID check out potential adopters (for example, a number of CBER placements ended up being advertised for “training” on bestiality boards), if it fairly represented the horses it’s selling, if it didn’t want to make profits on every single horse it brokers, and if it got the horses at auction instead of from a dealer. No, it’s always “the ugly truck is coming” (interestingly, if the high amounts aren’t donated fast enough, the truck will encounter delay after delay….honest.)
Just be careful, you folks out there with butterhearts for all animals. “Charitable” organizations are not always what they seem…..and an organization that flips horses like pancakes is probably not the organization with the horses’ best welfare always in mind. And it’s certainly not a “rescue”.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:26 am
There will always be folk who lie and take advantage of people and rescues, and who break their trust. That’s the fault of those people, not the rescue. I feel badly for CBER, to have been victimized and then blamed for it. It’s always blame the victim in this world, isn’t it. How convenient.
Looks to me CBER has learned some hard lessons, kept on going and growing, tightened up procedures, got in some new blood and continues to save horses. So stop beating a dead horse, as they say. CBER isn’t perfect, so what? Neither are horses. But CBER didn’t invent Kill Buyers, slaughterhouses or the trucks, it’s not their fault the horses are feedlot horses, and the horsemeat business is legal in the U.S. So, with or without CBER, the feedlots go on.
CBER is saving the horses that need it the most. If it’s a dance with the devil, the horses are worth it and then some. With or without rescues, KBs still make their living.
But it’s not about that. It’s about the horses. God be with the CBER folk, who look these unfortunate creatures in the eye on a daily basis. I couldn’t do it, and stay sane. Thank you for what you do.
The feedlot horses count too.
If you think 500 or 600 dollars is expensive for a horse, you must be a city slicker in a high rise somewhere, ignorant to horse prices. Every horse you buy is a risk, rescue or otherwise.
October 12th, 2007 at 2:39 am
Wanted to add, if CBER got the horses from auction instead, who is going to save the feedlot horses?
And, can they borrow your barn and a few slips of hay? And all the money it takes for horses in general, and can they borrow your 100 acre spread, too? Because they have to be housed somewhere.
In that scenario, then the money that goes into saving lives/horses instead goes into board for just those few auction horses. It’s a waste of money and resources and equine lives. Less saved, more slaughtered. And the feedlot horses doomed.
October 12th, 2007 at 4:43 am
[…] Emily Huh wrote a fantastic post today on “Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: Horse Lovers And Activists Saving …”Here’s ONLY a quick extractVowing to do my part, and now four years later, if you looked outside my living room window you would see two horses and a donkey grazing in the corral, saved from slaughter and the horrors that await so many other American horses, … […]
October 12th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: Horse Lovers And Activists Saving Slaughter-bound Equines
By ME
They shoot horses, don’t they? Isn’t that the saying? Would it shock you to know that a bullet would be infinitely kinder, than the harsh reality that befalls so many of our unwanted American horses?
Slaughter, and the slaughter pipeline, is no place for a horse. At livestock auctions, where unlucky horses are paraded before a crowd for that needle-in-a-haystack chance of being purchased by a loving family, horses are more often purchased by Kill Buyers, who make their living off horse meat. Kill Buyers often purchase young, sound, impeccably trained
-Uh, no. Impeccably trained? Do you really have statistics to back up that statement?
riding horses whose families or past owners believed would find a good home. They purchase horses dumped at auction by irresponsible breeders and people who want to squeeze that last buck out of a horse, regardless of its fate-
-Including rescues who decide the horse is too dangerous and rather than euthanise it per the sponsors request they take it back to Chuck Walkers dealer lot ‘Gary Seals Livestock’, and load it on ‘the ugly truck’ and ship it off to slaughter. NICE.
. Some of the horses have been abused and neglected; some have been starved and are fattened up at feedlots before being shipped. Some of the horses are wild horses
-purchased by the dealer for $100 and then shopped all over the internet by a ‘rescue’ for $500 or more. GEe I WONDER what that Chuck Walker then does with the $400 profit? Buys 4 MORE to ship, maybe????????????
, who never stood a chance-
-because the dealer had a wad-o-cash in his pocket from CBER to buy them with
; some are stolen horses leaving behind frantic owners who fear the worst.
Americans have been led to believe that only old, sick or crippled horses go to slaughter, if they‘re even aware of slaughter at all. But it’s simply untrue. Horse slaughter is America’s dirty little secret. Horses, which the American Veterinary Medical Association classifies as “companion animals†(pets), are rounded up and essentially tortured to death to satisfy foreign palettes.-
- there are so many statistics about slaughter available online, odd that this author failed to include them
A painful, fear-filled, inhumane fate awaits over 100,000 of our American horses each year-
-Again, does she not even know the numbers?.
Because the last operating American slaughterhouse, Cavel International in Texas, was ordered shut down on April 6th, 2007, the horses have been rerouted to the slaughterhouses of Canada and Mexico.-
-actually they have ALWAYS been going to Canada and Mexico
In Mexico, the slaughter plants render horses with a knife stabbed into the horses’ back repeatedly until the spinal cord is severed.-
- No, NO, NO! Not ALL the plants in Mexico slaughter this way- way to prerpetuate propaganda! The plants in Mexico who do this are slaughtering not for human consumption for export! We Anti-slaughter folks are only as reputable as our statements and this one is emotion filled and based in half truth! This slaugher method, while presently popular thanks to the news story etc out there right now, is NOT the norm nor I would guess the majority as most of the pants in Canada and Mexico are foreign owned, slaughtering specifically for export.
The animals are then lifted up by chains, their throats slit, and bled to death, often while still conscious, with waiting horses looking on.
I found out about horse slaughter four years ago, while working on a novel. Wanting to round out the main character, and living in the West, I decided to make the character a horse rescuer, then set about researching the subject on the internet. What sort of horses need rescue? Where do rescued horses come from? What I learned horrified, outraged and profoundly changed me. How did I not know about horse slaughter before? How in a civilized country built by the horse, and where Americans don’t eat horsemeat, are we betraying and exporting our national heritage for foreign consumption?
Vowing to do my part, and now four years later, if you looked outside my living room window you would see two horses and a donkey grazing in the corral, saved from slaughter and the horrors that await so many other American horses, donkeys and mules. The reality is, far from being old, crippled or useless, these equines were young, sound, and desperately in need of someone who cared.
During my research I came across Columbia Basin Equine Rescue, or CBER, a horse rescue group in Washington state that works with horses presently on the feedlots-
-These are not USDA licensed Feedlots, but dealers and therefore this statement is ignorant, showing her lack of understanding of the workings of industry… or just attempting to perpetuate that Myth CBER likes to spin.
From their website, you can place a beautiful face and kind eyes on the slaughter statistics, and view horses presently on “death rowâ€-
-OR for sale to the highest bidder as the seller is a DEALER selling to any Tom, Dick, Harry or slaughter buyer or private buyer who comes to his highly advertised, signs all along the highway dealer lot.
And you can even do something about it — adopt one of these feedlot horses, or, make a donation to save a horse’s life-
-Or not fill his pockets with cash vie his marketing dept., CBER so he can not go out and buy more. Turn hiim in to AC when you see injured/ill/illegal to ship to slaiughter horses on his lot! Hey there’s an IDEA!
CBER is hands on, working in the emotional trenches as they evaluate each horse and post their availability on the internet.-
-Selling horses as Geldings who arrive at the adopters a mare (or vice versa) and who are decades older than CBER- horse professionals extraordinaire- quoted, lame, sick, and blind
There are days when no more can be done; the truck that takes the horses to slaughter pulls up and with many crocodile tears shed, another unfortunate group of unadopted horses-ooh the loss of income hurts!- is loaded and whisked away. Their photos are taken down and moved to the “In Memory†page of CBER‘s website.
-And the money is handed by the thousands to the Dealer who then goes to the auctions and starts the whole cycle over again
It’s time to stop the inhumane and callous exploitation of American horses -
-Including by groups portraying themselves as rescues.
Support the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act, which prohibits United States slaughterhouses from processing horses for food to be sold in Europe and Asia, and bans the exportation of live horses to Mexico and Canada for slaughter. Write your Senators, your Representatives, your President and let them know the murder of American horses is unacceptable. Start an Anti-Slaughter petition, sign an Anti-Slaughter petition, educate family and friends, and educate yourself. Don’t turn away and do nothing, now that you know; the horses need your outrage and your compassion. There are so many things in life we can’t control; the slaughtering of America’s horses is not one of them.
For more information:
http://speakforthehorses.com
CBERs WIKI here: http://www.alexbrownracing.com.....ine_Rescue
Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: www.columbiabasinequinerescue.org
Shark: Showing Animals Respect and Kindness: http://www.sharkonline.org/?P=0000000528
1st Photo: This is Kiva Glow, being ridden and evaluated by Jeff, a horse trainer (to use the term loosely), and a rider for CBER. Kiva Glow was shipped to slaughter on 8-13-07, after time ran out-
-even though money had been pledged and a home found for the horse.
His ad for a second chance read: 20 year old, 14.2h, roan BLM gelding. He ties, and easy to tack up. He was good to ride but does not appear to know much. Split reined and neck reined a little, does not respond well to leg pressure. Just a little refresher course is all he would need. He was sure footed as many mustangs are and was sound at time of assessment. Picked up his feet gentle and willingly.
2nd Photo: Peter was on the feedlot in July of 2007. His ad for a second chance read: Very sweet yearling QH/TB, halter broke & very very friendly. Would make someone a great project. In the photo, he is one-year-old. He stands with his new owner, 14-year-old Alyssa. Which fate do you think a horse would choose, if a horse could choose his fate?
-Funny, no mention of Adam, Blaze, Casino, Sonya, Passion, Painter (the first), THE MARE IN THE MUD, Cuddlycowgirl and other adopters fosterers who caused harm to horses, that black and white leopard Appy adopted recently (who arrived from QT emaciated, and the QT provider refuses to answer questions about why the horse is thinner than he was on the, and the VET (talk aout ethics) refuses to talk about what was/was not provided this horse in QT. I bet that was worth the whole $300+ the adopter shelled out for QT!), or the mutant strangles on that dealer lot that caused the state vet to issue a mandatory QT for any horses coming off that lot and of course the lack of updates on the thousands of horses they claim to have saved but who knows cause they have no follow up in place!
3rd Photo: Shipping Day: “Despite the best efforts of CBER and it’s supporters, not all the horses can be saved-
-and even when all the horses they have highlighted for adoption are “saved’ others they call no-hopers do ship. Those no-hoper horses fate sealed by the very dollars raised to save the few. The best way to save all of the horses from slaughter is to not supply the dealers and killerbuyers with funding, and by support the Anti-Slaughter Legislation for American Horses.â€
To see more photos, get more information visit:
http://speakforthehorses.com
Check out CBERs WIKI here:
http://www.alexbrownracing.com.....ine_Rescue
Really, I like my truthful version much better!
October 12th, 2007 at 10:34 am
This is the “REAL” summerhorse as in the one people will associate with CBER and rescue issues.
This post:
summerhorse says:
October 11th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Here’s a link to many of the horses that CBER has saved from a brutal death, and this is only in the last 15 months. There are hundreds more.
http://don‘t buy there…
__________________________________________
Is NOT mine and I do not, will not and would not ever recommend getting a horse from this rescue or almost any rescue that puts dollars back into kill buyers pockets to buy MORE horses to ship to slaughter. I particularly do not recommend “rescues” that sell sick horses, mares that are geldings, crippled horses as sound, dangerous horses to novices, blind horses as sighted and sell $100 horses for $800 and sock the buyer for “quarantine” which does not include grain, meds, or farrier work.
The Yakima feedlot was nearly empty in Jan. and then FOB started shoveling money to CBER and now the feedlot is FULL to the brim with doomed horses, most of whom are never listed. So to “save” 100, now 100s MORE will die? Yeah that makes sense. I refuse to help make people who kill horses rich.
You can go BUY them from the owner for half the price, he’s a DEALER and will sell to anyone with the green! Better yet haunt the sale ads in papers, circulars and the net and go to the auctions and get them for a fraction of the price and skip most of the strangles and other lot crud diseases and injuries.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Please, feel free to spend your money at auctions to save these horses before they get to the feedlot. Regardless of what you think of this organization, THEY ARE SAVING HORSES LIVES. They do the best they can with the means they have. This is an innovative group who has learned to change their ‘regulations’ as conditions warrant. This is a new type of approach to saving horses and it is working. It is a shame that some people just parrot old lies and misstatements without looking to see the lessons learned from past history.
This article is not really about CBER…it is about equine slaughter practices in and out of the United States.
October 12th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Would it make you happy if CBER closed up? That is what it sounds like… I wonder if the horses sitting in the feelot would thank you.
October 12th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
I love how CBER keeps saying this is all ‘new’ and they are learning as they go… YEARS after they started raking it all in.
If some statements are old lies or misstatements, I would love to see the corrections- with proof.
The Cuddlycowgirl mess is not a lie
Foster homes with horses removed for neglect is not a lie
That CBER does no post-adoption follow up, and therefore can
not say what has happened to a majority of the horses ’saved’ is not a lie
That CBER VP Wendy DeGraaf, among others, posted that CBER bought a trailer is not a lie
That Chuck often has horses on his lot who are not legal to ship to slaughter that he threatens to and CBER markets as in danger of without contacting USDA/AC is not a lie
Sonyas story is not a lie
The mutant Strangles on the lot is not a lie
That Samantha Panayotopulos bought horses with her Boyfriend Bruce Ball from Gary Seals and then showed them, tried to sell them for $15,000 and THEN those same horses showed up on CBERs website as at risk for going to the lot/auction/slaughter for adoption for $650 is not a lie
That Samantha Panayotopulos and Wendy DeGraaf were volunteers for Sleepy Hollow Horse Rescue and DID NOT assist authorities in their inquiries into the atrocities there is not a lie
The only lesson I see CBER has learned is avoidance, denial and flat out refusal to address questions when posed about their actions. That one they have down!
October 12th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
What exactly are YOU doing to help the horses already at the lot?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
Poor Kiva Glow.
Why did this horse ship when there was bail raised and a home found?
October 12th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
This article is about the heinous practice of horse slaughter and stopping it.
It says a lot, that, a few bad eggs have to post and try to bury the point — HORSE SLAUGHTER! The article’s about horse slaughter, and asking people to get involved to abolish this inhumane practice once and for all.
It’s about the horses! The horses everywhere! I read yesterday that Cavel in Illinois is regrouping to open in Canada! No!
Please everyone, sign Anti-Slaughter Petitions and write your government! The horses are the point here!
October 12th, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Please don’t believe what the CBER detractors post. They are posting mis-information and have cleverly manipulated search engines to bring up their own negative (and mostly false) information. Regardless of what detractors continue to write, CBER has saved over 2500 horses in three years. It’s quite an amazing statistic.
Feedlot rescue is a tough. This is the horse’s last chance at finding a new home. People who post negative information about CBER must actually support slaughter. Why else would they purposely try to prevent people from adopting these horses? If these horses don’t get adopted, they get sent to slaughter. Thanks to CBER, many horses get a second chance.
CBER is saving lives. Saving a life is rescue. God Bless CBER for helping many an unfortunate horse. I have a beautiful thoroughbred that I adopted through CBER. Yes, she was on her her way to slaughter. I will be eternally grateful to CBER for helping save this horse’s life.
October 12th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
oh talkshita honey, no no no, please don’t torture us here. have to wonder in the time it took for you to write a hater version, you could have written a letter to the president, posted more links to help abolish horse slaughter, and signed a bunch of petitions.
don’t quit your day job, sweetie. you might find yourself on the feedlot with no home offers.
Tockshita painfully says:
October 12th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: Horse Lovers And Activists Saving Slaughter-bound Equines
By ME
_____________________________________________
October 12th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
I have adopted several horses thru CBER - all were as represented, ages were very close, and their training is as disclosed. My horses are absolutely wonderful - one is a VERY WELL TRAINED REG. QH MARE - totally sound, sane, sweet and wonderful - she is my main trail horse. She knows gates, clips, loads, stands for the farrier, crosses water/bridges, ponies other horses, no kick/bite, nothing aggressive. She is darn near perfect! One is a Morgan/Draft Cross, exactly as described by CBER, he is in training, and is VERY SWEET, I have ridden him on Several Trail Rides, and he is wonderful - sound, sane, and sweet. A third is well trained, sound, sane, and rehomed to a wonderful family.
My experience with CBER has been great. I’m sorry that a few bad apples are so h*ll bent on harming the horses chances of getting a new chance at life. I don’t really care if you like CBER or not, but why harm the horses with your hatred? Don’t you realize it belittles you? Alot of your information is old, and much of it is incorrect.
How sad for you that are so filled with hatred………you have my pity.
I can honestly say that I fully support CBER, have had nothing but good dealings with them, and would definitely buy thru them again. Each person has to decide for themselves…………
WendyP
October 12th, 2007 at 7:50 pm
The CBER “haters” or “harpies” as you call them elsewhere on the web are not trying to stop horses from being adopted and are not in favor of horses being slaughtered. They are trying to keep people from being ripped off. They are trying to prevent people from getting hurt by horses that they know nothing of their training (either the horse or the adopter) You can claim that they are lying all you want but I have followed this group for years and a lot of what they (the CBER haters) claim is true. It’s really sad but where ever this group (CBER) goes on the web, trouble follows. They have even been banned from several bbs. No, not the CBER haters, CBER themselves have been banned. I have never seen such with any of the other rescue groups. That alone should tell you something is not right here.
One thing that bothers me so much about CBER is the fact that with a truck coming for the horses, why don’t they drop their $150 + fee that CBER tacks on to each horse so that maybe being a little cheaper folks can come up with the money to save the horse. And why do they need to tack on so much and for so many things. My goodness, at one time they were tacking on a fee of $20 or $30 for someone to ride the horse at the lot so they could tell if it was trained or not. That’s when they lost me. This is NOT just about the horses to them, to CBER it is all about the $$$$$$$. Pretty sad. My $$ goes to real rescues that really do care about the animals they save.
Yes let’s save as many horses as we can until we can put an end to slaughter but lets do it with an honest and open and most important, caring rescue. One that has the best interest of the horse and the adopter in mind and not just the $$$$$$$.
October 12th, 2007 at 8:19 pm
harpies would be a good word, actually.
for chir*’s sake, let them rescue horses without you harpies having to get so dramatic and mean-spirited. SO many others have had wonderful experiences, agree to disagree already, sheesh. You don’t get to appoint yourself God and condemn the feedlot horses for everyone. Go do some work for horses and get off the computer already. You harpies are like a friggin broken record.
October 12th, 2007 at 9:23 pm
“Columbia Basin Equine Rescue: Horse Lovers And Activists Saving Slaughter-bound Equines”
Sorry but this title and the lack of any traceable statistics, quotes, or sources in this essay lead one to believe it is more advertising for CBER than educating on slaughter. You will not last long in the Anti-slaughter/pro-slaughter battle relying on pretty pictures and emotional statements without any merit in reality. Stick around a little longer and you will figure that out.
As to what those who have lost faith in CBER do to save horses,…. we do what we can. We write letters, we make calls, we support local and private rescues we trust, we have helped in the saves of several horses since leaving CBER, some of them CBER re-rescues I might add. All without making a dealer/killbuyer richer for the experience or begging for any money or blaming people when the money did not flow in.
I do not think anyone has a problem so much with CBERs rescue model, but more with the amount of money that has passed hands in the process, and the lack of answers or the disgruntled, rude, attacks to simple, common questions all rescues face at one time or another.
That once a question is uttered supporters quickly turn rabid and one is banned is telling.
If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing.
That CBER hides almost every single detail and twist their tale like a pretzel or changes their story completely lends an air of distrust.
October 12th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
How is it that stalking them around the internet helps horses? How many horses have you hurt by doing this?
October 12th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Also wanted to say that I find it rather ironic Tockshita that you complain about lack of traceable statistics, quotes or sources. Everything you and the other harpies have said here falls under one of the above.
Why is it that you want to stop the feedlot horses from being saved? Do you, like many, feel that the feedlot horses don’t deserve a second chance? I really do not understand your motivation in trying to keep these horses from being saved. Why do you want them to die?
October 12th, 2007 at 11:57 pm
Save them any which way you can poor things
It is hard to find motivated people for such rescues. So what if they are control freaks or ego trippers, if they save one of God’s creatures they have done a good deed.
October 13th, 2007 at 12:37 am
e wem, i’m with you. no rescue is perfect, and that’s not the point anyway. it’s those poor horses. it’s time to move on and for everyone to do better for the horses. working with feedot horses is about the toughest kind of horse rescue there is. these people have a gift that they can do it at all. that kind of work, in consequence, comes with a high rate of anger, hopelessness and despair i think. people want to blame someone. there is always another truck, and another. it’s horrible. andd yet these CBER folk keep on doing it.
October 13th, 2007 at 2:29 am
Of course they keep doing it. And all the while they are laughing at YOU. Laughing all the way to the bank with their pockets stuffed full of the $$ they are making off those poor horses. They don’t care what happens to the horse once they have their $$. That’s one of the points people are trying to make here. A real rescue, one that cares about the horse, would do checks to make sure the horse is in a good home, that the horse is a good match for their new owners. And no one has to follow CBER around the web. CBER seems to be every where doing what they do best, begging for your $$$$$$. Because that is what comes first to them, NOT the horses, but their $$$$$$. When CBER shows up people that know what they are really about have to speak up. I can only speak for myself, I do not waste my time following any one around the web.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:08 am
The lady doth protest too much.
I think this article was bloody brilliant. Approaching feedlot horses from a humanitarian rather than a political viewpoint. Positive. I hope she writes more. Itchmo could use some horse coverage.
October 13th, 2007 at 3:54 am
What exactly do you want? More horses to go to slaughter? You do stalk CBER all over the internet. As far a site checks…well I hope to hell you wern’t wanting us to have the originator of the speakforthehorses website do one…she did one for another rescue & saw no problems…funny the horse was scored a ONE….. go back to your site & complain thats what you all do best…leave the feedlot horses alone, they at least have SOMEONE fighting for them..CBER…
October 13th, 2007 at 6:24 am
i don’t know what yer saying. i fact checked this girl’s article and it checked out accurate. ONE mexican place is stabbing horses, it’s too many. it’s not propoganda. it’s news in a sick world. it’s sick and wrong. someone’s gotta save these horses. yer twisting it to fit your hater propoganda and hurting horses. i think she wrote knowing many were first timers to this ugleness. sorry for speling. hate wondring what goes on in the horse plalces when no oneislooking.
October 13th, 2007 at 6:55 am
You’re saying that slaughter is okay, just depending on the methods used? It’s alright to murder pets as long as you do it a certain way but not another? That’s horrible. So can we come eat your cat or dog, as long as we murder it with the right methods?
October 13th, 2007 at 9:52 am
LOL Here is the real me, a truthful person.
You do talk shita though dont you? You talk shita everywhere.
October 13th, 2007 at 10:39 am
“Also wanted to say that I find it rather ironic Tockshita that you complain about lack of traceable statistics, quotes or sources. Everything you and the other harpies have said here falls under one of the above.”
If I was writing an article about slaughter, I would include statistics (easily found online) and quote reliable well known knowledgeable sources like John Holland, Mary Nash’ website, etc.
I am not writing such an article, I am commenting on a rescue and the experience many have had with them (ie a negative one). I can, and gladly will, post the quotes of the sponsor of Sonya, the mare CBER Pres Sam Panayotopulos sent to slaughter, and the pictures of the horses CBER let Cuddlycowgirl adopt and abuse, as well as other support of other topics if you really want me to. Would that help?
It’s an easy answer to say we are Pro-slaughter and just want these horses to go to slaughter. If you want to take the easy way out go ahead and think that. Others who want to stop and think can see that saving one via CBER and Chuck Walker/Gary Seals Livestock, or now Shawnas Killer buyer means they have the funding to buy 2 more that DO get shipped to slaughter. Shawnas killerbuyer is reportedly going to go get 65 horses to ship… where did he get the $ to buy those 65? Gee, I wonder.
Buy those same horses where Chuck/Shawnas Killerbuyer get them: at auctions and through Nickle ads and online ads…. and save twice as many while not giving Chuck or Harriman a cent. Seems a no-brainer to me. But of course then CBER would have to house them while finding adopters and without the emotional sales motivator of the “ugly truck”. You know, like other rescues who do the actual hard work of caring for the horses while awaiting to and place them in screened and appropriate homes. Seems CBER is not skilled enough to do that, instead of just posting pictures online and charging a premium $150-$200, or whatever their story is on that charge today, for that simple service. Not to mention the $300 for QT, and the charges to pick the horse up at the lot (and now that adopters are not allowed to use 2 horse straight loads, they’ll rake in even more for that service, right? Using the trailer they bought with donations.)
2500 sold huh? And lets see CBER account for each and every one of those 2500 horses. Where are they right now? CBER can’t do it, so they can not possibly know how many of those 2500 are still ’safe’, or alive, or standing on another dealer/feedlot awaiting an unknown fate, or already slaughtered. Especially horses the adopter did not pitched in any money towards- people respect what they pay for, what they get for free is more easily disposed of, especially if it is found to be ‘defective’ in some way or not suited to their needs.
So CBER horses are “saved” at one stage, but are they really safe?
We’ll probably never know.
October 13th, 2007 at 11:07 am
Tockshita said:
2500 sold huh? And lets see CBER account for each and every one of those 2500 horses. Where are they right now? CBER can’t do it, so they can not possibly know how many of those 2500 are still ’safe’, or alive, or standing on another dealer/feedlot awaiting an unknown fate, or already slaughtered. Especially horses the adopter did not pitched in any money towards- people respect what they pay for, what they get for free is more easily disposed of, especially if it is found to be ‘defective’ in some way or not suited to their needs.
So CBER horses are “saved†at one stage, but are they really safe?
We’ll probably never know.
~~~
And that’s precisely the point. How many CBER “saved” horses go on to good lives? How many are sold (being as how they come free) and what happens to them?
And I have never once seen CBER “rescue” a horse that wasn’t coming to them at a profit. That’s not rescue, sorry folks, it isn’t. That’s horse trading, or worse than horse trading.
If people want to help rescues, and I hope they do, they should search for rescues in their state and help one nearby - in person (there is always much to do) or financially. Helping a local rescue is also a way to “kick the tires” so to speak. CBER goes through a lot of volunteers, it’s said, because once they catch on, many leave. The best rescues keep their volunteers…..
October 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
How to find a horse rescue near you:
http://www.naturalhorsetrainin.....scues.html
Hope you check it out and that you consider helping!
October 13th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Yes P. O’Brien, in fact just late last month/early this month an adopter right in WA fell on hard times and her horses were/are in jeopardy.
She contacted CBER and they did what?
Absolutely nothing.
They now refuse to take in horses unless the ‘bail’ is paid, QT, at a premium $300 and at the Pres own farm (can you say “Conflict of Interest”), is paid up front, and there is an adopter. God forbid they actually provide care for the horse until an adopter is found. On their dime? Puh-leez!
Sonya is a classic example, the sponsor was accepting responsability for taking care of that horse, even if the best thing to do was to euthanise her. CBEr could not have that, they would rather have anopther horse they could then adopt it out at full price (ie double dipping), and ship Sonya to slaughter.
How about Hamlet? He suffered on that dealer lot for 2 weeks, according to Ryan Ranger- and yes I have the thread where she posted that info, and they FINALLY put him down after getting in the donations (times 4) to do it.
Putting him down ending his suffering and THEN asking for donations to offset that cost is out of the question I guess. And “The mare in the Mud” story written by Sam Panayotopulos? (and yes I have that too complete with the pictures). Was there ever a more obvious ploy to raise donations…err I mean emotions?
October 13th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Just found this, the evolution of a horse rescuer. So lovely, I wanted to share. (Found it on the Save a Forgotten Equine website - SAFE appears to be a very responsible horse rescue.) (PS - C. Atkinson is Fugly Horse of the Day blogger…..and bought a horse from CBER who turned out to be 90% blind.) This is what a horse rescuer looks like, folks, to my mind.
The Evolution of a Horse Rescuer
written by C. Atkinson
Like many horse owners, I grew up around people who had old-fashioned ideas about horses, and this is who I learned from. When I was 17, I knew that it was fine to deworm horses only every six months, that horses who were “crazy†should get shipped to slaughter and that was what it was there for, and that it didn’t make sense to put any kind of money into a horse who was retired or unusable. If someone let that horse sit in the backyard and eat, that horse was pretty lucky. If it died from something, well, we all have to die sometime. These were things that the people around me believed, and I had no reason to doubt or disagree with them.
I started working in the horse business professionally shortly after high school. As I worked for better and better barns, my standard of horse care escalated. I learned how to properly wrap a leg. I learned how to treat conditions like thrush, and to give vaccinations. I learned that deworming must take place every 6-8 weeks, and that the type must be rotated so that the worms do not develop resistance. I learned what a good hoof trim looks like. I learned about nutrition and dental care. Every person I worked for, I learned something new.
Along the way, I learned some things that weren’t as positive. I learned how to tie a horse’s head around, to longe with the reins run between the front legs and tied up over the back so that the horse would “pop†himself every time he moved…all of the tricks for getting the low “peanut roller†headset that was desirable. I worked for an Arabian barn that ran elastic through pads on the horses’ shoes and worked them that way to fraudulently develop Saddlebred-like action. Their farrier pulled off the pads right at the horseshows, just before the class. Sometimes I did see things that I really couldn’t get involved in. I had an opportunity for a cushy job with housing working for a Saddlebred barn, but after one visit, seeing the horses sitting in their stalls in bitting rigs, covered with white sweat in the 90+ degree Chicago heat, I turned tail and ran. But for the most part, I was like most young people – I assumed I was the one who didn’t know what I was doing, and I went along with what the “adults†and “professionals†said to do.
Along the way, I started going to horse auctions. I was paid by a dealer to tack up and ride horses through the ring. They sell better with a 20 year old girl in a tight t-shirt and cutoffs on them. I was friendly with all of the old dealers, but I was already starting to change into a different kind of person. They knew if they had a skinny Thoroughbred in dire straits, that I might be interested. They started to tell me about horses and work with me. I could tell they thought I was silly, but they humored me. One time I got a dealer to unload half of a sardine-can-tight load of horses to pull off a Thoroughbred mare whose eyes I would not have been able to forget. She went home with me. I started turning old broodmares into adorable short-stirrup hunters for my lesson students. I picked up “runt†Quarter Horses and made them into hunter ponies.
And so my evolution began. I stopped working for people who were abusive. I realized I could pick and choose employers who were good to their horses and had high standards for care. I walked away from the breed shows I had been involved with because I couldn’t stand to see the 2 year olds being loped for 45 minutes to wear them down to win the big bucks the next day. I thought about where those horses would be in 5 years…twisted legged, prematurely arthritic and hobbling into sale rings to go on the slaughter truck. When I look back, it was all about thinking…taking the time to think through the things I saw people do and their likely consequences.
I got a lot of flack from people I had known for years as my beliefs changed. To this day, I have friends of 20+ years who cannot fathom why I have my 27 and 28 year old on retirement board that costs me over 20% of my take-home income every month. I understand that I have a responsibility to those two horses for life. My ex-boyfriend, a millionaire who owned them with me and played many polo tournaments on them, contributes nothing. He has stayed like the people we grew up with – to him, the horse is like a golf cart, and if it doesn’t run anymore, you get rid of it and get a new one. There are many people we will never change. Many refuse to think for fear that they may develop the beliefs rescuers have – that a horse is not a thing, that it is instead a living creature that deserves to be safe, fed, loved and cared for. That belief is frightening because it is an expensive belief, a belief that will result in a stunning change of priorities for most people, and one that their friends and families will not understand.
Today, I am a typical broke rescuer, despite having what should be a very good income for a single person. My horses have everything, and most are not “useful†in any traditional way. I have a blind one, a lame one, one with a bad heart. I continue to rescue on whatever scale I can afford at a given time. There is nothing in my life that is as fulfilling as seeing a skinny, sick horse return to glowing health and go on to a new home. My prior life, where horses were commodities that were only as valuable as the job they could do, is so foreign to me that it is hard to believe I lived it.
If you are reading this, you are one of us or you are on your way. Think hard. You will give up many things if the way you think about horses changes. Job opportunities, if you are in the business. Personal luxuries like pedicures and Kate Spade bags if you are not. You will be hard pressed to find a man who wants to come live with you and help support seven useless but expensive horses. You may lose friends when you feel compelled to speak out about their horse care or their training practices. They will not like it when you suggest that they should get a second job or scale back their Nordstrom’s addiction in order to keep providing for the permanently lame horse that they really just want to “get rid of.†You will get frustrated about the endless sea of other people’s messes that you must clean up, and frustrated about the lack of funds to do so.
Every morning, you will go out and feed the horses who used to be skinny that now glow with health. The horses who used to be scared of people will walk up to you and bury their noses in your chest. They will follow you around like dogs, because they know you to be the source of all that is good. You will never receive a review at work or a compliment from a human that makes you feel as wonderful as a horse who used to have that dead-eyed, hang-dog look whinnying when they see you.
It’s all about thinking. Are you brave enough to start?
October 13th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
cber SAVES horses? Hardly. What they do is take a picture, throw it up on their website (or one of their supporters does) and then sit back and watch the internet supporters knock their brains out going from board to board to board doing their begging for $ for them. Then when a particular “save” goes awry….cber says they are not responsible because THEY didn’t start the threads…..someone else did. However, they sure do collect all the money from those efforts which goes into their paypal account, yet claim they didn’t get enough money to “save” that poor horse so Chuck put the horse on the truck.
They keep partial bail money collected saying it is put into the general fund. That is common knowledge and has been stated over and over again by one of their staunchest supporters, Cybercat, on their RO board.
They certainly can not actually NAME all those 2500 horses they have claimed to have saved. They have deleted all information pertaining to said horses that were sold in 2004, 2005, etc.
Popcorn was in quarantine. He went in fat and came out emaciated. No answers from Sam when the owner asked repeatedly what happened to her horse. At least, the thread talking about poor Popcorn was either deleted or buried in the unavailable to the members archives. Only staff has access.
Every time a problem arises, it gets whitewashed, buried or deleted because they don’t want the public to know that their own supporters have been speaking up when things go wrong. No…they MUST present a pretty picture because they want those dollars.
The list of dead horses, dying horses, keeps growing but they are being hush, hush about it because they don’t want the public to know the truth.
Their supporters are rabid about protecting their “good name”, a fairy tale that has been carefully propagated by their supporters. Their newest buddy has a vested interest in going back to them after speaking out against them because she gets money for QT…..on all the horses her “so called Kill buyer” sells due to her efforts. Everyone connected to this group who is peddling the horses has something personal to gain……..
They get the AB people to pay for everything…..and their supporters get free horses. Oh, only lately they have been “willing” to pay the QT cost if the AB people will pay for the horse, which is grossly overpriced to begin with.
Yes, cber does NOTHING but sit back and watch as the feeding frenzie and major begathons begin on all the different boards……….and laughs all the way to the bank, as others have said.
Yes, a real stellar so called rescue, huh?
October 13th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Sonyas story:
“Back in Feb of 2005, I started looking at their website and the horses at the feedlot. I saw many that I wanted to adopt. Then in March, I saw a crippled horse named Mishia on the Feedlot Efforts page. My heart sank. imagining the horrific ordeal she would go thru to get to the slaughter house. CBER was trying to come up with funds to put her down. I emailed and asked if she appeared to be in any pain. They said no. I went down to Yakima 1.5 weeks later and picked her up.
“While I was there I saw another horse. Her name was Sonya and she was lying down. When she did get up she was limping and appeared to be in quite a bit of pain. I inquired about her and CBER said she had been kicked at the feedlot and had foundered. The next day I sent $400 and my friend sent $200 to CBER to have her sponsored. Her meat price was $600. My request to them was if she was not able to heal from her injuries and was in pain that she be humanely put down. She was put in foster care and seemed to be doing fine. I went to Texas for a short trip and when I got back I found out thru my friend that Sonya was sent back to the feedlot by CBER and traded for another horse! The excuse was that she was acting aggresive at the foster home and trying to strike at different people.
“I like to ask here, what “rescue” in the true sense of the word … ever takes back a horse because it is not acting appropriately? Further more, CBER never had permission. I was out of town so they called my friend and TOLD her what they had done after the fact. I never heard one word from CBER until I emailed them and asked what was going on. They said they had no idea I had put the majority of the money down to have her sponsored. If they had, they would have contacted me but they had to make a fast desicion because she was acting so mean.
“I sent the money via PayPal … there is a record with a note attached for what the money was for … what kind of bookkeeping do they keep? In additon, I have documented emails stating that I wanted Sonya put down if she did not mend. If she was that aggresive it was probably from being in pain … if so, if she was that wild and crazy, I would have still wanted her put down instead of sending her on a truck to the slaughter house. Yes, sadly, she was tagged and shipped to Canada to be slaughtered.”
October 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
“At least, the thread talking about poor Popcorn was either deleted or buried in the unavailable to the members archives. Only staff has access.”
Is this an example of your accuracy? If so, I pity you. I read that thread just this morning and it was right in the horses section. Maybe you should check your facts before opening your mouth.
October 13th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Typical snide remarks CBER supporters offer everywhere online.
Who needs ‘harpies’ when you have this type of comment coming from those representing your organization?
“Disgusted says:
October 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
“At least, the thread talking about poor Popcorn was either deleted or buried in the unavailable to the members archives. Only staff has access.â€
Is this an example of your accuracy? If so, I pity you. I read that thread just this morning and it was right in the horses section. Maybe you should check your facts before opening your mouth.”
October 13th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Just because I read the board means that I support CBER? I don’t think so! I just note that you don’t represent truth either. Why post crap that you haven’t even verified? Makes me wonder about EVERYTHING that you post. If you can’t tell the truth about an active thread, why should anyone believe you about things years past? Obviously you do not check your “facts”, you just post whatever crap seems to work with what you are trying to say. That is dishonesty plain and simple.
October 13th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
If I wanted a horse, Tockshita, and you were part of the rescue I went to, I’d run so fast in the opposite direction I can’t tell you. You need to know that you sound like a scary lunatic playing tag team with another lunatic in an attempt to hurt those poor animals. Us Itchmo readers are smart and can make up our own minds, thank you very much. I’ve been on Itchmo since March. Never saw you here before, which leads me to the conclusion you are here only to STALK this rescue, as some have commented here, and for no other reason. We’re all far from stupid, at Itchmo. (Go Itchmo!)
Rock on, CBER. Don’t know how you do it day in and day out, because it would kill me to be in your shoes. But bless you for it.
Everyone else: please do sign sign sign, and write write write your Representatives. Save the horses. That was the point of this girl’s article, to open our eyes for those poor slaughtered horses.
October 13th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
You mean the thread about Popcorn is still there? Wow, I’m shocked that it wasn’t buried along with all the other questioning threads. I will just have to go back on there and try to find it to see if anyone ever answered the owner’s questions about WHY this happened to poor Popcorn.
People get banned left and right from that board. Wasn’t Passionsmom banned because she asked questions? Aren’t they now claiming that all the horses are going to Mexico? Could it be that they don’t want people like Passionsmom calling FP and making arrangements to get a horse out of there that cber says….will never be retrievable once there? So, they TELL the people the horses are going to Mexico? Funny how Mexico was never mentioned until after Passionsmom successfully, without cber’s help, was able to retrieve Passion from the REAL feedlot, not the dealer lot with whom cber is partnered with to sell his horses that anyone can buy.
Why do they keep using the same names of horses over and over again? What’s the point of doing that when there are at least a billion different names they can use….? Is it because they want to continue to “confuse” people?
Where are the 2500 horses they have “saved”? Who has them now? How many of them are DEAD………..and have been dead since being taken off the lot or died shortly after arriving at their new homes? Why take credit for something THE INTERNET PEOPLE DID…save the horses. Cber didn’t save squat. They use emotional blackmail to get OTHERS to actually “save” the horses…….they sure don’t do it. If they do have a horse in their charge…..boy do they charge out the wazoo for everything.
Yep, they are very shrewd and have people like you to do damage control for them…..and to spread the hype…so that more victims can be successfully separated from their money.
Hey, knock yourselves out if you want to toss 3 x as much money as a horse is really worth….monetarily speaking….into cber’s pockets. I wonder what Heidi would have to say if she were to go public with what she knows and why she left them. Would be interesting to hear.
October 13th, 2007 at 7:26 pm
“Everyone else: please do sign sign sign, and write write write your Representatives. Save the horses. That was the point of this girl’s article, to open our eyes for those poor slaughtered horses.”
Funny in trying to make her point about slaughter she never cited the legislation, or gave links to it or to who to call or write regarding it… just the link to CBERs website on which there is nary a mention of the slaughter ban legislation (go figure). And her point was to raise awareness of slaughter and not CBER? Yeah…..riiiiiiight.
DOH! You forgot those links also!
Here they are:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.311:
To amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to… (Introduced in Senate)
S 311 IS
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/.....0:H.R.503:
H. R. 503
To amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, and for other purposes.
The phone/Fax directory for Congress:
http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/h.....ectory.htm
Find and call/write your Senators:
http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/h.....te[1].html
HSUS direct link to write to Congress:
https://community.hsus.org/campaign/FED_2007_horseslaughter_notcosponsor
Link to Mary Nash site where you can read the White Paper, John Hollands essay on the relationship between slaughter and abuse/neglect, and other relevant and informational items on this topic:
http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horsemeat/
October 13th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
Tockshita,
She didn’t have a lot of room to write. Itchmo’s articles are short. I think she got the main facts out hoping to spur people on to investigate and research for themselves. To decide for themselves and to think for themselves. I agree with joeR, it was brilliant. It had me on the computer for hours. I do believe she wants to help the horses. You need to do your own work.
But Good job, Tockshita — some really good links. Finally! Thanks for the links, and for contributing to the positive — saving the horses. I’m hooked. We can actually help. We did it with the pet food, now why not horses?
October 13th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
I only came here because a CBER supporter used my name falsely to advertise their for sale horses. I know a good many of the people responding here (on both sides) and I don’t know of any that are pro slaughter.
Well except for CBER of course! No “rescue” sends a horse to slaughter PERIOD!
And who cares where the thread for Popcorn is or isn’t? The fact remains UNANSWERED WHY this fat butterball of an App arrived home after a month in their “QT” having lost 300 or so pounds! And why they told the owner the advertised as sound horse was “injured” in QT or on the trip (I forget now) and never mentioned that the “injury” was a very old RINGBONE. Something that is pretty hard to miss.
Why did they REFUSE to help the aforementioned CBER horse when the owner who fell on hard times called and asked them to come get him? Because he was old and not going to bring them another fat “adoption”? Or just lazy? Well whatever reason that poor horse was starved to the point where Animal Control came out and ordered his euthanasia. They reported his condition as “horrific”.
This is the second time in the last year an adopter asked them to retrieve a horse and they refused. At least someone else was notified months later and DID rescue the horse who was also emaciated and is now recovering.
CBER has been making the same “mistakes” now for over 2 years. they never seem to learn but they sure make a tidy living quarantining horses at the president’s family’s HAY FARM, charging for transporting horses in her trailer and putting pictures on a board. But they never want to lower a fee or take a horse in an emergency even when its fees are paid maybe because that horse will over stay its month of QT and then be THEIR horse? On THEIR tab?
Odd that’s the way REAL rescues work.
Where do the CBER horses COME from? Of course they come from the want ads, the classifieds, the “nickel” ads, the local auctions and the reservation. Where they are ALL available for a FRACTION of what CBER is charging to broker them off the feedlot. Anyone can save them there or even from the dealer himself. Only a few of his lot horses ever make CBER’s page. They seem to always be the ones in between the prime slaughter bait and the prime riding horses.
CBER COULD be a great rescue, apparently they choose to be a dealer instead. That in itself would be fine if they didn’t operate under the guise of “charity rescue”.
Doesn’t it seem odd that all the “harpies” were either avid supporters once and/or adopters (some of multiple horses)? That so many of its most dedicated and knowledgeable volunteers have abandoned ship?
October 14th, 2007 at 3:27 pm
The Real Summerhorse says:
Doesn’t it seem odd that all the “harpies†were either avid supporters once and/or adopters (some of multiple horses)? That so many of its most dedicated and knowledgeable volunteers have abandoned ship?
=====================
What isn’t posted in this comment is the fact the “harpies” are small in number yet seem to have plenty of time on their hands to go every where they can to bash anything positive written about CBER. As for dedicated and knowledgeable volunteers abandoning ship…well, good riddance. They have been replaced by even more dedicated and knowledgeable volunteers who actually want to save lives.
And, CBER is a great rescue. Is it perfect? No. Is any rescue perfect? Hardly. What matters is the horses.
It’s ok if some people choose not to support CBER. However, if they really wanted to make a difference, they would be putting their energy toward ending slaughter, not ending CBER.
October 14th, 2007 at 8:27 pm
“However, if they really wanted to make a difference, they would be putting their energy toward ending slaughter, not ending CBER.”
And you know they aren’t how?
I have noticed CBERs website is particularly devoid of any mention of the legislation to ban slaughter, letter writing, calling etc. With the number of members of their Rescues Only board, a letter writing campaign from them could make a huge difference, simply on volume alone.
Odd that they do not see the impact they could have, or choose not to.
Why is that?
October 15th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Do you also hate the 80+ other rescues on the Recues Only board? It is also their fault that there is no legislation on that board? No, you seem to focus only on CBER. Why don’t you go after the PMU horse rescues? PMU is a dead industry and the breeders that used to breed for PMU now breed specifically for the rescues to sell for a couple thousand dollars.
It is obvious to me that you are a bunch of completely selfish individuals. You would rather see every horse on that feedlot suffer since CBER doesn’t do exactly what you want. You are not about the horses - you are about yourselves. Your selfish need to see those who don’t follow your desires prosecuted makes a joke of all your noble claims of self righteousness.
Do you not wonder why all those who used to be among you have left? Why do the rescues you hold on high condemn you and laugh behind your backs? Even they refer to you as harpies and have abandoned your ranks. Why have the people who originally created your group abandoned your cause? The people who were once members of your group have fallen away until there is barely more then a dozen and the dozen that are left are but a pale shadow of those used to be. If your cause is so just, then why have those who led it abandoned you? How many of the original core are left? The answer might surprise you if you stop to consider it.
October 15th, 2007 at 4:10 am
“Do you also hate the 80+ other rescues on the Recues Only board? It is also their fault that there is no legislation on that board? No, you seem to focus only on CBER.”
The other rescues are not a problem. The problems all seem to come from CBER. CBER is hurting horses. When people like you raise $$ for buying a 20 year old lame pasture pet for $800 from CBER do you ever stop to think of what you could do with that same amout of $$ collected. You could go to an auction (or even another rescue) and save 2 or 3 horses and maybe even have some $$ left over to feed it and get some vet care.
But okay, lets say you like this horse, you come up with the $$ or beg from others on different boards to get the $$ to buy the horse. So then right off the bat you have to come up with another $300 for QT. And while in QT you have to come up with more $$ for farrier and vet care. You pay that and then finally in a month you get your horse only to find out that there was no farrier care. The vet that was supposed to have come out will not even return you calls AND your poor horse did not seem to get fed because he is just a sack of bones. The horse is not sound and is much older than you were told. Hmmmm, doesn’t sound like a place I would want to do business with. But this is the kind of people you want to defend and support?
Had I been the buyer that bought from CBER the horse Pop Corn/Dazzler I would have contacted a lawyer and gone after who ever did the QT for neglect and fraud, and then gone after CBER for fraud. What was done, or I should say not done for that horse is criminal in my book! I would be ashamed to say I was associated with or supported ANYONE who would starve a horse like that.
So tell me, how does it help the horses to be sent to a QT where they receive no food or care? Where did the $$ sent for this horse’s care go? It sure didn’t go for feed. Pics were posted from at the feedlot and after QT and that poor horse lost a lot of weight in 30 days. Poor thing. Silly me, and I thought rescue meant you took an animal from a poor situation and put it in a better one. Not the other way around.
And how does it help the horses to be misreprestented when sold so that the new owner is now stuck with a horse that can not be what they want or need? A lot of us don’t have endless pastures or an endless supply of $$ to feed and care for a pasture pet. (I have a pasture pet and he costs me just as much as the horses I can ride for his up keep. Oh, and I DO feed him even if he is not one of my riding horses) If I spend my $$ for a riding horse, then that is what I want, something I can ride. Not something I now have to feed, spend $$ on vet bills and farrier bills and can not ride. I now would have to either sell the poor horse yet again or give up riding because I can’t afford another horse or maybe I don’t have the room for another horse. So how does this help the horses?
This isn’t one of the other rescues doing this, this is CBER. And it isn’t the first time it has happened and I am guessing it will not be the last.
So you keep on handing them $$ so they can keep on starving and neglecting horses and I will go with my fellow harpies and support horses from rescues that at the very least DO feed and care for their horses.
October 15th, 2007 at 9:50 am
Another stellar and honest and “horse first” CBER sale:
cber description:
Claudia (1/17/2007)
Age: 18-20 years Height: 15hh
Gender: Mare Primary Color: Sorrel
Type: Riding Breed: American Quarter Horse x Type
Temperament: Training:
SPONSORED !!! 18 - 20 year old, 15h, QH type mare. This stout mare was easy to catch, good about her feet, ears and general handling on the ground. She has a quiet demeanor. **She was Ok to ride, she did not do anything bad but was not super responsive and was herd bound to Arista so it made her assessment difficult**
But now:
Hey Stacie,
I am trying to find a good home for a cber horse that we took in for rehab. Her name is Claudia, she is healthy, already been through qt, she has pads and shoes on, she isnt sound for any heavy riding, would make a great ride around the pasture kids horse or a companion horse for someone. She is a retired roping horse who was very accomplished in rodeo, she won tons and tons of money for her prior owner and then he dumped her at the lot after she wasnt sound anymore…..**this is a local horse that lots of people know, I heard that this guy actually roped on her not sound for a few years!** This girl is very sweet, she’s a stocky little chestnut, no kick, bite or other vices, We need to find her a forever home so we have room to rehab more from the rescue. If you are on any boards or know of anyone who might be interested in her please let me know!!
Her price will be VERy reasonable, we arent making any money, we just need to break even.
Thanks!
Megan”
So it’s a local horse, the “adopter” found this information on her obviously, but CBER somehow failed to mention in their description or in conversations with the adopter that the horse was only pasture/VERY light riding sound? Their “Trainer” (again using the term loosely) rode her and did not notice that she was lame? No wonder he’s working for a “rescue’ on a dealer lot rather than training out there in the big wide world- he can not even sit on a horse and recognize that it is LAME. *shaking head* I sure hope CBER isn’t paying him!
This is not the kind of action, hiding the issues/history the horse has from the adopter, of a horse rescue who is supposedly ‘in it for the horses’.
Horse DEALERS do that kind of bait/switch malarkey.
October 15th, 2007 at 10:06 am
Amen. The better “rescues” often put several thousand dollars into a horse - between emotional and physical rehab, feeding, and vet care - and then sell it to a adopter with an adoption contract, after on-site inspection and background check, for anywhere from $300 to $1,000. Always at a loss to the rescue, but the horse is sold in good shape, and the contract ensures its continued well-being.
October 15th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
“It is obvious to me that you are a bunch of completely selfish individuals.”
…
“Do you not wonder why all those who used to be among you have left? Why do the rescues you hold on high condemn you and laugh behind your backs? Even they refer to you as harpies and have abandoned your ranks. Why have the people who originally created your group abandoned your cause? The people who were once members of your group have fallen away until there is barely more then a dozen and the dozen that are left are but a pale shadow of those used to be. If your cause is so just, then why have those who led it abandoned you? How many of the original core are left? The answer might surprise you if you stop to consider it.”
Nicely put, but I doubt they will stop their bashing long enough to read or consider it.
October 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I did not understand why you would write:
“Why do the rescues you hold on high condemn you and laugh behind your backs?”
Are you asking me this? Because it doesn’t make much sense if you are. If you are talking about CBER, believe me, I do NOT hold them “on high”! And sorry, but they are not laughing at me. They are scared of people like me because I ask questions, I see what harm they are doing to the poor horses that fall into their hands and I say something. And even worse, I take my $$ elsewhere.
The ones they are laughing at is YOU. You don’t question anything they do or say. You just find a way to come up with more $$ for them to line their pockets with. You pay them $300 plus for QT and then get a horse that has probably not seen much, if any food for the time it was in their care and YOU don’t have a problem with that. Instead you come on here and defend them and call me names. And give CBER more $$ so they can do it again to another poor horse.
Open your eyes. By supporting crooks such as CBER YOU are hurting horses.
“Why have the people who originally created your group abandoned your cause? The people who were once members of your group have fallen away until there is barely more then a dozen and the dozen that are left are but a pale shadow of those used to be. If your cause is so just, then why have those who led it abandoned you? How many of the original core are left? The answer might surprise you if you stop to consider it.â€
What group are you talking about? If there is any such group I never heard of it so I really have no idea how you are coming up with numbers for this “group”. And just who are these so called “leaders” ? What you are hearing from is just people like me who can see what it going on here.
People who have been harmed by your CBER. People who don’t like to see a group call themselves a “rescue” that starves and misrepresents horses unfortunate enough to end up at that lot. In other words, people that care about horses.
October 15th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
So so many people have had a great experience with CBER, and all you offer is he said/she said tirades, because to allow for the fact that many, many adopters have had an experience the complete opposite of yours or your friend’s or your friend’s mother’s second cousin, doesn’t fit your agenda. Then, it sounds like you’re taking private information from a different group, skewing it and using it in your tirades, uh, I mean comments at Itchmo. Shame on you. That’s quite manipulative, and low.
Yeah, that really makes you sound credible and honest, and like such an angel. Really, you’re stalking this rescue group around the internet. YOU’RE the agressor, because your or whoever’s horse was imperfect. That doesn’t mean the intent was for it to be that way. It doesn’t mean every horse is that way. Feedlot rescue is a gamble. Welcome to the real world.
You’re hurting the horses. Your agenda or rants are more important than innocent lives. I don’t know how you expect to be taken as credible when you’re worse than the rescue you stalk. And, you’re hurting the horses. You’re so wrapped up in blaming a rescue that you’ll actually try to keep people from adopting sane, sound, and usable horses. That’s the sickest thing about you.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
The bottom line is CBER has been asked questions and they refuse to answer or give half answers.
-Sonyas story for example: they will not explain why they did what they did, putting that mare on that slaughter truck when she had a sponsor willing to pay for her care-whatever that turned out to be.
-How they allowed Cuddlycowgirl to happen and how do they know it has not happened to more of their 2500 “saved’ that they are clueless as to their whereabouts/condition.
-How they ignored Adam and Blazes return to the dealer lot and the lack of care those two received when they did return hideously injured, and then starved and with their injuries neglected.
-How they watched Hamlet on the lot for 2 weeks before asking for $ to put him down and THEN taking action rather than doing the right thing first and then getting reimbursed with donations.
-Their Alex Brown Wiki is another prime example of nonanswers and run around that is so common when they are asked to explain things. Or heck, update people who funded the rescues of over 100 horses on what is up with those very horses.
You can call me manipulative if you want, I don’t really care since I have no idea who you are or why your opinion of me should actually matter since I am not a public entity soliciting donations. However, if you want to talk about manipulative, one should also look at CBERs actions and question what manipulations they use and whether those are in the best interest of the horses. Sending horses they know are not approrpaite for the homes it is sent to is not in the horses best interest. Sending ill or injured or lame horses to people expecting one that is not so is not in the horses best interest.
I am only reporting what I know of CBERs actions. If they had not done these things, or had fessed up to them and made corrections I would not have a leg to stand on now would I? CBER has only themselves to blame for the number of people who find their actions or lack of actions reprehensible and who feel the need to warn the unsuspecting animal loving public.
If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. Since CBER is so very, very secretive and evasive one can only wonder what it is they are hiding.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
The bottom line is CBER has been asked questions and they refuse to answer or give half answers.
-Sonyas story for example: they will not explain why they did what they did, putting that mare on that slaughter truck when she had a sponsor willing to pay for her care-whatever that turned out to be.
-How they allowed Cuddlycowgirl to happen and how do they know it has not happened to more of their 2500 “saved’ that they are clueless as to their whereabouts/condition.
-How they ignored Adam and Blazes return to the dealer lot and the lack of care those two received when they did return hideously injured, and then starved and with their injuries neglected.
-How they watched Hamlet on the lot for 2 weeks before asking for $ to put him down and THEN taking action rather than doing the right thing first and then getting reimbursed with donations.
-Their Alex Brown Wiki is another prime example of nonanswers and run around that is so common when they are asked to explain things. Or heck, update people who funded the rescues of over 100 horses on what is up with those very horses.
You can call me manipulative if you want, I don’t really care since I have no idea who you are or why your opinion of me should actually matter since I am not a public entity soliciting donations. However, if you want to talk about manipulative, one should also look at CBERs actions and question what manipulations they use and whether those are in the best interest of the horses. Sending horses they know are not approrpaite for the homes it is sent to is not in the horses best interest. Sending ill or injured or lame horses to people expecting one that is not so is not in the horses best interest.
I am only reporting what I know of CBERs actions. If they had not done these things, or had fessed up to them and made corrections I would not have a leg to stand on now would I? CBER has only themselves to blame for the number of people who find their actions or lack of actions reprehensible and who feel the need to warn the unsuspecting animal loving public.
If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. Since CBER is so very, very secretive and evasive one can only wonder what it is they are hiding.
Turning the argument onto me and my actions or any other naysayer is just another obvious ploy to avoid answering the issues brought up here.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
There is a difference between not answering, and not giving you the answers you like. Just because you don’t like their answers doesn’t mean that they have never answered them.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Rather then waste your time trying to make me seem like the bad guy, why don’t you come back with some facts to disprove anything I have said here. Convince me that I am wrong here. I’m listening. As far as any info I have concerning CBER, hey, it’s all on the web for the whole world to see. If you don’t want any one to see this kind of info, don’t put it on there.
Convince me why I should go to CBER and pay (by the time you inflate the price of the horse and tack on QT, farrier care that may or may not happen, same with vet care) around a $1000 or more for a horse no one seems to know anything about when I could go to an auction or another rescue and get the same thing for $300 - $400 or less.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Why should I try to convince you of anything? You don’t seem like someone I would want to be around and so I would just prefer that you did NOT frequent the same boards as me. The fact that you are willing to sacrifice horses on the alter of your hate pretty much tells me everything I ever wanted to know about you.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
You asked for it.
This is from CBERs publicly accesible Alex Brown Wiki page
http://www.alexbrownracing.com.....ine_Rescue
You will note the number of times the questions are not answered, half answered, heck some of them got changed by CBER volunteers! You can also go to the ‘history’ tab of this Wiki and see that may people actually asked those questions and who from CBER and when the answers/updates were done. Note the last update/answer was psted on Sept 12th by Tashgaia. No updateson any of those 100+ CBER horses since then have appeared on AB. Obviously, if you look at the History tab, it is not just me they are refusing to answer- they are refusing information, including not providing updates, to the very generous FOBs who have funded their last 100+ saves, but now appear to have seen CBER for what they are and moved on.
Questions from FOBs
This space available for FOBs to ask legitimate questions directly relevant to CBER’s mission of rescuing slaughter-bound horses. This page is here to help FOBs better understand how CBER is slightly different than other rescue organizations. Questions that are direct attacks, contain falsified or largely speculative information, or potentially libelous, will not be tolerated. Duplicate, redundant or substantially redundant questions will be deleted, edited or consolidated for clarity and ease of reading.
PLEASE POST NEW QUESTIONS AT THE BOTTOM, WE ARE TRYING TO ANSWER THEM IN THE ORDER POSTED. THERE ARE SO MANY REDUNDANT QUESTIONS, WE ARE IN THE PROCESS OF CONSOLIDATING THEM FOR EASE OF READING. IF YOU POST THEM AT THE TOP, THEY WILL BE MOVED TO THE BOTTOM.
QUESTION: How and why was CBER started? Why are CBER efforts so confusing?
ANSWER: CBER was started by a horse lover to save horses. CBER has a distinctly different approach to saving slaughter-bound horses … an approach that allows us to rescue a high volume of horses compared to many other rescue models. Because our model is so different from the rescues that, for example, buy horses from auctions, off the track, or animal welfare organizations, CBER is sometimes misunderstood and can be considered “confusing” to some.
Some ask, “Why rescue from a feedlot when buying horses at an auction is less expensive?” The answer is simple … because no one else will! When horses have reached the Kill Pen at a feedlot, it is the “end of the line” for the vast majority of these animals. Some may have been processed through multiple auctions until they were finally purchased by a Broker/Kill Buyer. CBER is literally their last chance to survive. The key difference here: At the auction, the horse has at least SOME chance of being bought by the public, whereas the chances are virtually zero once they hit the Kill Pen.
In this respect, CBER fills a unique niche among equine rescue organizations.
It is our belief that no matter how many horses CBER rescues, there is an over-abundant supply of horses available to fill the demand for horsemeat overseas. It is this demand that keeps the slaughter trucks filled, regardless of the price paid for the horse - auction price or feedlot price. Stopping feedlot rescue will do nothing to stop horse slaughter, it just takes away the last-ditch chance these particular horses have.
The hypothesis that the Kill Buyer will just buy more horses with the higher fee from a feedlot horse betrays any understanding of the economics of supply and demand. In our opinion, the trucks will be filled no matter what the price paid, and, sadly, CBER’s rescue efforts are just a drop-in-the-bucket compared to the total number of horses available for shipment to slaughter.
In order to succeed in rescuing so many horses (over 2,500), we provide a “service” to match at-risk horses with adopters who can offer safe, loving homes. We leverage the Internet, among other techniques, to bring horses in need together with potential adopters. One of CBER’s key principles is to avoid taking possession of the horses, because if we did, we would not be able to scale ~ financially or in boarding capacity ~ to accomodate the volume of horses we have saved.
In the course of the adoption process, CBER may provide a temporary or transitional home for the horse at Camelot Farms (or other approved care facilities) until the adopter can take physical possession. A great many CBER horses are adopted by out-of-state adopters, and the logistics of removing an at-risk horse from peril to a “safe house” on “slaughter shipping day,” then providing quarantine (and in some cases, immediate medical care), all in the absence of the actual adopter doing this, is a significant challenge and may create a sense of confusion to the casual observer.
In a small minority of cases, an adopter may back out of the transaction. When they do, CBER takes ownership of the horse and takes responsibility to re-home it rather than return it to the feedlot. These horses add to the financial overhead of running the operation. For example, today there are 11 horses in CBER’s care awaiting homes (some of which have been there for months).
Admittedly we are very short staffed, and adjustments and improvement are regularly being made in order to make our process better understood, especially to the arms-length observer sitting at a computer screen. We have grown very fast and are saving more horses than we ever thought possible. We are also looking for volunteers to help us out. Please let us know if you are interested in helping.
QUESTION: How much money does it take to run the foster care at Camelot Farm each month?
ANSWER: Obviously that would change each month as different horses with different needs are involved.
QUESTION: Are excess funds raised for foster care and, if so, what happens to those excess funds?
ANSWER: There are no excess funds.
QUESTION: Does CBER provide a service to advertise and sell horses for Chuck Walker?
ANSWER: From our perspective, CBER’s “service” is giving a voice to the horses who have been dumped at the feedlot and giving them a chance to be re-homed before they are loaded on to a slaughter truck.
QUESTION: But not ALL the horses….? Why?
ANSWER: See “CBER POLICIES RE: PAYMENT, DONATIONS, & ADOPTION” section above. It’s all a matter of scale. Currently, we are challenged to meet the demands of the adoption application screening process, the post-adoption follow-up process and our QT/transitional facilities are near capacity. Until our operational model scales to meet the demand, we must avoid taking on more horses than we can reasonably handle. It is our belief that no matter how many horses CBER rescues, there is a over-abundant supply of horses available to fill the demand for horsemeat overseas. Further, it is our hope that as CBER operations scale, we can increase the number of horses rescued as well.
QUESTION: You say not all horses have a $150 fee added to their price. If this is true than why did Samantha Milbredt (Sam), president of CBER, post back on April 10, 2007 (Post #7356.183): “CBER places a $150 fee on each horse it lists in order to support the ongoing expences of the rescue’s operation.”?
ANSWER: It is CBER’s policy to attempt to recover some of the costs associated with CBER’s ongoing operations. In the minority of cases, recovering a fee on every horse may not be possible.
QUESTION: Why does CBER repeatedly refer to Gary Seals Livestock as a “feedlot” when it is not?
ANSWER: That is the common term for that property as used by the residents of the area.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: But you are not soliciting to people locally. Using the term “feedlot” implies that the horses are one step away from slaughter, which they are not. In order to ship internationally, to Canada (where Florence Packing horses go), Chuck Walker/Gary Seals Livestock would have to be licensed by the USDA as a “feedlot.” He and it are not. Therefore, local or not, the term is erroneous and misleading. Perhaps it is part of your marketing?
FOLLOW-UP ANSWER: You are incorrect. Many CBER-listed horses are adopted by individuals living in the areas surrounding the feedlot, and in central/eastern Washington state. You are also incorrect in asserting that the horses here are not slaughter-bound. It is indisputable that the location of these horses is on a dry-lot, or feedlot, as it is commonly called in Washington state. Once the horse is weighed and tagged on this feedlot, then steps onto the transport trailer, it is NOT going anywhere BUT a packing house feedlot. It is irrelevant how many feedlots the horses transition through before they ultimately end up at a slaughter-house, as once they are weighed and tagged, they have entered the slaughter pipeline.
QUESTION: Then why did you post this above: “A great many CBER horses are adopted by out-of-state adopters …”? If this quote is the case, it conflicts with “Many CBER-listed horses are adopted by individuals living in the areas surrounding the feedlot, and in central/eastern Washington state.” They are not locals who know that this is not a USDA-licensed feedlot and might be under the impression, through your words, that it is. Or is misleading the public about this what your aim is?
ANSWER: Clarification - a great many horses are adopted by both locals AND out-of-state adopters, over 2,500 and growing. See ANSWER above regarding your initial question about feedlot definition.
QUESTON: Why does Samantha go by the last name Milbredt, when it is obvious from all the legal documents on your website signed by her that her last name is Panayotopulos??
ANSWER: This question is irrelevant to CBER’s mission of rescuing slaughter-bound horses.
QUESTION: Soliciting funds under a name that is not your legal name seems very relevant to me.
ANSWER: Thank you for sharing your personal views.
QUESTION: All the questions so far make CBER sound like it’s a rip-off. Are there any POSITIVE testimonials from people who have had a good experience adopting from CBER that CBER can post here, so we can hear a another point of view?
ANSWER: We will have to start a new section for testimonials as we know there will be many!
QUESTION: When I see “All 4 have permanent or temporary homes if we can bail them” posted, I wonder why these homes do not have to pay for these horses? Do they get the horses for free? Does CBER ever pay for peoples horses or just FOB’s? If the people do pay for these horses, does CBER ever use the money collected to bail out others?
ANSWER: People offering homes to the horses do not get them free. They contribute to the bail as well. The people that offer homes to these horses usually step up at the last minute to give the horses a place to go. These same people also come back and contribute to other horses later on.
QUESTION: Your 2005 Form 990 states: “Columbia Basin Equine Rescue purchases horses that would otherwise be put down. These horses are boarded, trained, and given medical attention before being offered to the public. There are hauling fees involved if a person purchasing the horse need it transported.” However, here on CBER’s wiki, it is stated that the horses are the property of Chuck Walker/Gary Seals Livestock until adopted; therefore, CBER does not buy them or provide for their care?
ANSWER: CBER currently works with Chuck Walker to encourage that basic standards of horse care are provided to the CBER-listed horses. Since these horses are in the Kill Pen and targeted to enter the human-consumption slaughter pipeline unless adopted, there are regulatory restrictions on the care that can be provided; for example, restrictions on medications that enter the bloodstream and tissue.
QUESTION: But the horses go to Florence Packing for a month of “detox” before shipping to Canada, so there is no reason you cannot treat injuries and illness, and I would think that would be required by your city/town/county Animal Control?
ANSWER: The horses do not belong to CBER and so we must follow the rules we are given regardless of their merit.
QUESTION: Why do CBER supporters come to TWR and ask for money for bail, QT and other costs on horses to be delivered to owners who are not financially able to cover them? Is this not in direct conflict with the above policy (”As most of us know there is no such thing as a free horse. Those who are looking for a free horse may not have the means to properly care for and house a horse or may have other intentions.”)?
ANSWER: CBER supporters are trying to save the lives of slaughter-bound horses, and we understand that some posters are motivated by heightened emotions. CBER does not ask its supporters to post on this or any other Message Board.
QUESTION RE: QUESTION ABOVE: Based upon what facts do you assert that adopter(s) “are not financially able to cover them”? Because some may ask for support in gathering the up-front costs to adopt, haul, quarantine and possibly treat the horse for medical/physical conditions?
QUESTION: Does Samantha Milbredt get a stipend from CBER? If so, how much? What are the names and contact information for the other members of CBER’s Board of Directors. Are any of these other members of the Board of Directors paid?
ANSWER: No one is paid.
QUESTION RE ABOVE: What are the names of the other BODs?
ANSWER: The current CBER Board consists of Samantha Milbredt Panayotopulos, Wendy DeGraff and Megan Van Hollenbeke.
QUESTION: Does CBER pay for a lease on Camelot Farm? If so, how much and for what purpose?
ANSWER: No.
QUESTION: Is it a conflict of interest to have Camelot Farm, owned by the Panayotopulos family, be one of the “approved quarantine facilities” for adopters, since that would drive CBER income their way?
ANSWER: She does not gain anything financially.
QUESTION: If she gets a lease paid on her farm by CBER AND collects fees for QT and money for fostering, it would be hard to believe that she is not gaining financially.
ANSWER: CBER does not lease the Milbredts’ farm or house. Her family kindly allows CBER activities to overtake their personal living space for the love of their daughter and her passion for rescuing horses.
QUESTION: Does CBER’s adoption of horses from Gary Seals Livestock reduce the number of horses shipped to the pre-slaughter feedlot from there, or are the same number, or more, shipped?
ANSWER: The adoptions reduce the overall number of loads, thereby reducing the number shipped. In fact, many times over the past two years, scheduled truck loads have been cancelled entirely due to the tireless efforts of CBER and its many supporters and volunteers to find homes for slaughter-bound horses.
QUESTION: But you yourself said that you do not list ALL the horses he has, so how can that be true that loads have been cancelled?
ANSWER: Trucks have been cancelled due to CBER’s rescue efforts.
QUESTION: What is the protocol for managing strangles at Gary Seals Livestock as dictated by the WA State Vet? How is that being followed and at whose expense?
ANSWER: This is handled at the expense of the feedlot owner who also has a quarantine facility.
QUESTION: After a CBER horse has gone to its new home, what kind of follow up does CBER do to insure the horse is taken care of properly?
ANSWER: Follow up is done whenever possible. However, with over 2,500 adopted horses and growing each week, CBER’s small volunteer staff cannot scale to follow up on every horse that is adopted out. CBER does have to trust our adopters (approved via reference check and pictures of facilities) to take care of their adopted horse. If CBER is informed there is concern for a CBER horse’s wellfare, the application agreement gives CBER the legal right to site check and take ownership of the horse. In the past, CBER’s application agreement did not contain the site check clause or provisions regarding the right to remove the horse from the adopter’s care. These clauses were added in the summer of 2006 (I think; this is from memory). All applicants must have a current application agreement on file to adopt. Previously approved adopters (under the old agreement) must fill out a new application to adopt. ~Caryn (CBER Application Co-director)
QUESTION: You state that all horses needing to be re-homed must go through CBER and only be sold to a CBER-approved adopter. Yet, you also state that you are unable to follow up on all of the horses you sell. If that is so, how do you know if somebody has sold their CBER horse or what has become of it?
ANSWER: Redudant question. See answer above.
QUESTION: Are site checks always done after an adopter fills out an application?
ANSWER: No, site checks are not always performed. With the high volume of horses CBER rescues, CBER’s small volunteer staff cannot scale to check every adoption applicant’s facility/home. Our adoption approval process requires that we review pictures of the property where the horse will live. These pictures are matched up with descriptions of the property from personal references, a vet reference, and/or a farrier reference. The adoption application contains a clause regarding site checks, and each applicant must give CBER permission to perform site checks prior to application approval. ~Caryn (CBER Applications Co-Director)
QUESTION: If a horse’s bail has been paid (including CBER’s add-on fee) and the horse does not get adopted, why does CBER charge the full bail amount again for the horse? Chuck has already been paid, so it’s not like they have to pay him again. The first time CBER makes its $150, then the second time it makes its $150 again plus Chuck’s “amount” too?
ANSWER: Horses that are not adopted right away go into quarantine, then into boarding. This adds up quickly as any horse owner can tell you, especially when you factor in vet care and all the rest. The adoption fees of the horses do not come close to paying their expenses.
QUESTION: On CBER’s 2005 Form 990, Page 6, Item 75a (Enter the number of officers, directors and trustees permitted to vote on organization business at board meetings), CBER’s response is 0. So no one gets to vote? How does CBER decide things?
ANSWER: Decisions are made by our three officers who currently make up the BoD.
QUESTION: The list of CBER’s expenditures includes boarding expenses of $48,024. Why would CBER have boarding expenses?
ANSWER: In 2005 CBER did not have their own facility and still does not have their own facility. Board was paid and board will continue to be paid. It costs money to feed and care for horses.
QUESTION: Why is it important to Columbia Basin Equine Rescue to emphasize that the Rescue itself is NOT asking for money?
ANSWER: CBER cannot control what individuals post on the internet. CBER does not ask or expect anyone to solicit funds for CBER-listed horses.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION: Why can’t Samantha, Wendy, or another individual with some authority at the Rescue post pleas to bail CBER horses from the feedlot?
ANSWER: CBER is a volunteer-run organization. Everyone involved has lives outside of CBER (family, jobs, sports, their own horses, etc). Most CBER staff and volunteers are busy attending to the rescue work and do not spend much time, if any, online.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION: Is there any legal issue (I am thinking of, for example only, a conflict of interest per CBER’s own governing instruments or Washington State statute governing charitable organizations) that would preclude CBER’s Officers and/or Directors from posting a direct plea on TWR, in their capacity as Officers or Directors, for $ for CBER to use to “bail” a CBER horse from the Yakima feedlot?
ANSWER: Not that we are aware of.
QUESTION: Why doesn’t CBER ask supporters to campaign against slaughter?
ANSWER: CBER demonstrates its anti-slaughter position and philosophy BY DEED - saving slaughter-bound horses - but would not ask or expect anyone to lobby or take a political position on any legislative topic, as that is a citizen’s private choice.
QUESTION: Historically CBER did not use their trailer to transport horses off the lot. Is CBER currently transporting horses off the lot with their truck and trailer?
ANSWER: CBER does not have a horse trailer. CBER has a truck and has often borrowed the use of a trailer in order to help facilitate adoptions.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: Can you clarify this quote taken from the CBER BB? Date of post was April 2006. Did CBER sell the trailer? “CBER’s fee-where it should go: CBER is a new organization, just under 2 years old. CBER recently achieved the goal of having a home base. CBER also recently purchased a truck and trailer to be able to haul horses from the lot. In the past, CBER had to depend on the FO or others to haul horses for them—creating a nightmare of scheduling and a HUGE hassle. Therefore, the decision was made to purchase the truck and trailer to enable independence in getting horses off the lot.”
ANSWER: CBER does not have and never has had a horse trailer. CBER has a truck and has often borrowed the use of a trailer in order to help facilitate adoptions.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION: So why was a post made by Wendy DeGraaf, CBER VP, about CBER buying a truck and trailer in the Spring of 2006? (I have a copy of that post.)
Also, this from Susan Widener:
Katt Patt: Since CBER does not feed the feedlot horses, what overhead does CBER have? Are you worming/vaccinating/doing farrier care to any of the “headed to slaughter” horses or just the ones in foster?
S Widener: Now that’s a simple answer. YES! We have tons of overhead, penicillin being one of the biggest, vaccinations, vet bills, board, feed, senior feed, joint supplements, farrier care, advertising the horses, network domain charges, transportation costs, ***we maintain a truck and trailer so we can whisk the horses away from the feedlot asap***, gas to transport horses to foster homes and to placement or boarding facilities, our needs are endless just like any other rescue. Like I said before, we cannot taint the meat in the feedlot by introducing any chemical into a horse that is not spoken for, but the minute that we can, we do!
And this from “Smoochie,” i.e., Mary E. M. Bartolo, CBER attorney and the person who prepared CBER’s Form 1023, as posted on COTH bb:
smoochie Apr. 19, 2006, 04:24 PM The above is inaccurate in a couple of respects. 1) CBER DOES purchase the rescued horses from the feedlot owner, and in turn sells them to the new owner. Horses acquired through CBER come with a bill of sale from CBER. 2) The funds transferred to CBER from the new owner are not donations, but the purchase price for the horse. That price is arrived at by adding $150 to the price the FLO requires for the horse. 3) Saying that horses are placed at no expense to CBER is simply wrong — we have a truck payment, **trailer payment**, fuel bills, telephone and computer, horse feed, treats, medical supplies … and it’s not unusual for CBER to move horses off the lot and keep them while owners are making arrangements to pick them up - don’t want placed horses geing loaded on the truck by mistake.
The 501(c)(3) application says we buy horses from the FLO, add $150 and sell them to new owners.”
How can CBER now say it does not have a horse trailer and never did? (Also, note her mention of the $150 on ALL horses … no mention of “some” getting the $150 added on.)
ANSWER: I can only tell you what is correct, not what someone, sometime, somewhere wrote. CBER does not have and never has had a trailer. Period.
QUESTION: Does CBER add a fee to every horse that they sell?
ANSWER: No.
QUESTION: Are the horses the property of Chuck Walker until CBER pays him the funds they collect from the ‘buyer’?
ANSWER: Yes.
QUESTION: Are the horse’s expenses covered by Walker until the horse is bought.
ANSWER: Yes, except for topicals (not affecting slaughter-bound standards) applied by CBER volunteers.
QUESTION: Does CBER provide the new owner of a CBER horse with a Bill Of Sale?
ANSWER: Yes, although there is a backlog. If you have adopted a CBER horse and have not yet received your bill of sale, please email in.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: If CBER is a rescue, why is a Bill of Sale provided to the new owner?
ANSWER: Because there has been a transfer of ownership.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: But are they not also adopters? Doesn’t giving the adopter a Bill of Sale remove CBER as “guardian angel” to these horses should the placement not work out?
ANSWER: There are many legal reasons not to maintain ownership, one of which is that you also maintain liability.
QUESTION: I would love to know where the $200 OR $150 fee goes.
ANSWER: CBER does not always charge a fee on horses. The fee is never above $150; it is often not even that. The fee goes to pay for the other horses in CBER’s care, or to cover pledges that did not come through. In addition, a good portion of that money goes to pay for taxes, accounting, web/phone charges, etc.
QUESTION: Who determines what horses get a full $150 fee added on, and what horses get only part of that and which get nothing? Is there something about the horses listing on your website and where you solicit donations that indicates which are inclusive of the CBER fee, and which are not?
ANSWER: CBER determines which horses get what fee. There is nothing about the website that lists it.
QUESTION: Since you are now saying that the CBER fee is a sliding scale that is not consistent, when a person adopts/buys a horse from CBER, do they get an itemization of what part of the horse’s bail was a CBER fee, and what part was the purchase price of the horse? For income tax deduction purposes, of course.
ANSWER: It is not legal to take an income tax deduction for a payment to a charity when you received “goods” in exchange. Washington State still considers horses “goods.”
CORRECTION TO ANSWER: It is not legal to get an income tax deduction on the value of the goods received, which would be the horse’s purchase price/adoption fee that goes to Chuck Walker. The CBER fee added on to the purchase price/adoption fee is a charitable donation, and as such is a charitable deduction for income tax purposes.
QUESTION: Does CBER pay taxes on all horses as they have stated before, or just on geldings as required by law?
ANSWER: Washington State law requires that all horses that are not breeding animals have a tax assigned to them. CBER does not adopt out breeding animals, so the tax applies to them all.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: How does CBER insure that no animal that they sell gets bred? Do you think it is fair to charge people for tax that by law does not have to be paid on mares or stallions? What is the point? Exactly what taxes is CBER paying on horses they adopt out? Can you explain what those taxes are for, what they cover, how they are applied, and by whom (State/Fed)?
ANSWER: I believe that it is a state sales tax, but I am not sure. Anyone who adopts a horse from CBER agrees on their adoption application they will not use the horse for breeding. Therefore, none of the animals adopted out by CBER are considered breeding animals and so are not exempt from the tax.
QUESTION: Why are some of the questions asked by people outside of CBER being edited and shortened?
ANSWER: Some of the questions have included lengthy quotes or were just plain lengthy. They have been shortened in an attempt to keep this page easily readable and yet still maintain the intention of the question.
FOLLOW-UP ANSWER: Every page clearly states: Please note that all contributions to TimWoolleyRacing may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you don’t want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then don’t submit it here. (This is not just for this site, it’s for all Wiki pages everywhere).
COMMENT: The point of submitting questions here, on CBER’s Wiki page, is to avoid them on CBER’s solicitation threads. If CBER would prefer not to address questions here, CBER might want to let Alex know that. And I doubt the “edit clause” was intended for CBER to change the actual questions folks have for you. How fair would it be if we came in and changed your answers? COMMENT: Who says you’re not? FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: You can’t tell? FOLLOW-UP ANSWER: You’re funny! ;->
QUESTION: Why are some horses in the background of pictures not listed for adoption?
ANSWER: • The horse does not fall under CBER’s mission statement. Our goal is to rescue slaughter-bound horses that still have a quality of life. We focus on industry exploited and unwanted horses that are safe, sound or serviceably sound and useable with a future in an equine relationship either for pleasure, competition or companionship. • Per the previous owner, the horse is to be shipped and not be made available for adoption (CBER) or sale (FO). This could be due to the owners being contacted by previous CBER adopters who tracked them down and were harassed for sending their horses to the lot. If the horses are tattooed, branded or identifiable, and the owners have been harassed or don’t want to take that risk, these horses will be shipped. • Liability issues: There have been horses down there that are absolutely gorgeous with nothing visibly wrong with them, but, due to their dangerous nature (i.e. strikes, bites, flips while ridden, etc.), are not safe for CBER volunteers to handle, nor safe to place in a home and risk injuries or worse.
QUESTON: In the past CBER has not listed former “bucking stock” horses due to potential liability issues. However, I see that this week ending 6/2/07, CBER has former “bucking stock” listed: “Zen, 6-8 year old, 16.1h, bay clyde cross gelding - We were told (but do not know first hand) that this gelding has been started and is a little rough to ride. He is a reject from bucking stock and we were told that he never bucked (again we do not know first hand).” Has CBER’s policy changed regarding these potentially unsafe and/or untrainable horses?
ANSWER: Occasionally CBER has listed both former bucking stock and bucking stock rejects. In the case of Zen above, the anecdotal information provided to CBER about the horse led us to believe that, subject to the disclosure in the description (referenced above), this horse might, indeed, be a suitable candidate for adoption.
QUESTION: If CBER says they are paying for the horses in QT, then why are the adopters having to pay for QT, too?
ANSWER: Where does CBER say they are paying for the horses in QT?
FOLLOW-UP: It say that in your policies: “QT costs if needed and the continued care and feeding of horses still in CBER’s care that have not yet found their permanent home.” You also said so above when you describe where the $150 CBER fee goes.
ANSWER: Sometimes horses have been put into QT without adopters, or the adopter has backed out. This leaves CBER having to cover the entire QT bill.
QUESTION: Who profits monetarily from the QT?
ANSWER: There is no profit from QT.
QUESTION: Why are there ‘backlogs’ on a simple Bill of Sale?
ANSWER: With the volume of horses that CBER rescues, nothing is “simple,” especially given our staffing challenges. Please remember all CBER volunteers have families and jobs. Again, if you would like to help out, please let us know!
QUESTION: Where does Samantha Panayotopulos work outside of CBER?
ANSWER: This question is irrelevant to CBER’s mission of rescuing slaughter-bound horses.
QUESTION: Why does CBER do nothing when horses it failed to list originally ship and are returned to Chuck Walker from Stanwood? Why does CBER not place these horses rather than stand silently by while he fattens them up to ship again? Case in point: The horse that was returned with Adam and Blaze. How many others has this happened to, and CBER did nothing?
ANSWER: These are very serious allegations. Please provide evidence that the statements you make above are, in fact, true. Once you provide this documentation, we will attempt to answer your question. Until then, your allegations are completely speculative.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: See question about Casino at the end!
FOLLOW UP ANSWER: See answer above. Again, please provide factual documentation. Until then, your allegations are completely speculative.
FOLLOW UP RESPONSE Factual evidence is provided and someone keeps deleting it. Here it is again - Casino’s buyer’s own response:
“Casino is not speculation and you dare well know it. My name is Syndi and I was the one that Casino spent his last days with. I will be happy to post the entire thread that resided on the CBER BB (including pictures) on the TW site. It is bad enough you feel the need to edit, delete, and spin questions and answers here. It was wrong that CBER ignored Casino not once, but twice….it is imoral to come here and pretend he never existed. CBER didn’t give a darn about Casino, but there were plenty of people who did. Your actions and words belittle the spirit and life of this special horse.
ANSWER: Casino was not adopted through CBER. This is a personal matter between the buyer and seller of this horse and does not belong on CBER’s wiki.
QUESTION: If CBER is not placing former bucking stock or dangerous horses, please explain Nubert, Abner (who they later withdrew from their board after a big stink), and the whole collection of bucking stock rejects that were placed by this organization.
ANSWER: Your statement is incorrect. See answer above re: bucking stock.
QUESTION: I frequently see horses that were bought through CBER up for resale on web sites and also know of a lot of CBER horses that have been resold. None of the people selling these horses were told they had to go through CBER to “re-home” their horse. Why?
ANSWER: “None of these people” is an absolute statement. Please validate your statements with facts so we may understand excatly how many of the 2,500+ you are suggesting here. In the meantime, see answer above. It is copied and pasted here:
“Follow up is done whenever possible. However, with over 2,500 adopted horses and growing each week, CBER’s small volunteer staff cannot scale to follow up on every horse that is adopted out. CBER does have to trust our adopters (approved via reference check and pictures of facilities) to take care of their adopted horse. If we are informed there is concern for a CBER horse’s wellfare, the application agreement gives CBER a legal right to site check and take ownership of the horse. In the past, CBER’s application agreement did not contain the site check clause or provisions regarding the right to remove the horse from the adopter’s care. These clauses were added in the summer of 2006 (I think, this is from memory). All applicants must have a current application agreement on file to adopt. Previously approved adopters (under the old agreement) must fill out a new application to adopt. ~Caryn (CBER Application Co-director)”
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: Why does it matter how many? Even if it’s just one (which it isn’t), that is one too many that you are losing track of, which goes against your policy. Are you saying you don’t enforce your own policy?
ANSWER: Why does it matter? Because your over-exaggeration is blatantly and purposefully inflamatory, prejudicial and misleading. Again, as stated above, we are short-staffed, and due to the high volume of rescued horses, we are challenged to follow-up on every single horse. It is an ideal, but until we grow our staffing model to meet the volume demand, we will not be able to follow-up on every single horse.
QUESTION: When I see this posted: “All 4 have permanent or temporary homes if we can bail them” I wonder why these homes do not have to pay for these horses? D o they get the horses for free? Does CBER ever pay for people’s horses or just FOBs? If the people do pay for these horses, does CBER ever use the money collected to bail out others?
ANSWER: People offering homes to the horses do not get them free. They contribute to the bail as well. The people that offer homes to these horses usually step up at the last minute to give the horses a place to go. These same people also come back and contribute to other horses later on.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: Since you only answered half and edited the rest out: When these people that you ask the FOBs to buy horses for do donate to these horses, why aren’t those donations added to the totals on the TWR board so that the FOBs do not over-donate to one horse?
ANSWER: CBER does not maintain any TWR threads. You would need to ask the TWR member who is posting on the TWR board.
FOLLOW-UP: I am asking my CBER questions on the wiki as instructed by Alex. If I asked on the TWR thread, I would just be directed to ask on the Wiki so why talk in circles?
FOLLOW UP ANSWER: We’re not talking in circles, just trying to follow Wiki protocol. We believe that the section above titled “FOB Horses” was intended to be a place where FOBs could obtain info about current rescue operations, not this section. CBER does not currently have the bandwidth to keep this section updated - shoot! it’s hard enough just to keep up with all the questions! :) But we know it’s important to some, and we will try to find a way to prioritize updating information here for you on the Wiki, balanced against the demand for our time to screen applicants, perform site visits, do follow-ups on adopted horses, assess new feedlot horses, update the CBER website and maintain multiple board/care facilities.
QUESTION: Why are the horses listed as available on your website long after they have been adopted or given away?
ANSWER: We are short-staffed. We do not have a full-time webmaster to maintain the CBER web site. It is updated by a volunteer. We sincerely apologize if the content needs updating. Our web site volunteer does not sit at a computer screen all day.
QUESTION: That is hard to believe, that horses get added to the feedlot page while at the same time those who are already pulled are not moved to the “Adopted” pages. If the volunteer can add horses, how can they not at least change the notation on those who are safe?
ANSWER: I am sure that you do not know how our website or database system works or what is required in order to do what within it’s internal functions.
QUESTION: Does CBER ever use their PULL FUND to bail horses or do they ever use the overage from adoption donations or roll over adoption fees to bail horses?
ANSWER: See “CBER POLICIES RE: PAYMENT, DONATIONS, & ADOPTION”.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION: So I can safely assume that the answer to my question is no, CBER does not donate any money to help buy horses from Chuck Walker?
ANSWER: CBER has often in the past had to cover pledges that never came through.
QUESTION: Why are new questions posted at the BOTTOM? That makes no sense because people now have to scroll through all of the older questions to get to the new ones. Not too convenient. Why the change?
ANSWER: See post at top of this section for explanation. Since there have been so many redundant questions posted, reading from top to bottom in chronological makes logical sense, especially since there are substantially similar questions that are posted and answered multiple times, and so many follow-up questions as well. This Wiki - and it’s format - is a work in process. Stay tuned for much more content and re-organization.
QUESTON: Why were some of Samantha’s own show horses (Park Ave for example) listed on the CBER site as Community Rescues? Why were they “rescues” in any sense?
ANSWER: These horses lived at Camelot Farms and were not the property of Samantha. They were former feedlot rescues and the person who owned them no longer wanted them. Sam was asked to find new homes for them. So yes, they were indeed rescues.
QUESTION: So their former owner was Bruce Ball, M.D.? Since they were listed on the Frenchwells Farm website (the website for the farm where Samantha and Dr. Ball resided) and at the price of $15,000, it would appear that she was more involved with them than just listing them as Community Rescues.
ANSWER: And your point is?
FOLLOW-UP: My point is: Sam had these horses, was listing them for sale from her own farm’s website (Frenchwells Farm) and showed them. THEN they appear on CBER’s Community Rescues, a place where horses who are at risk for going to auction are listed. WHY were they at risk to go to auction from Frenchwells Farm? And listed as Community Rescues without a mention of their show record, or who had ridden them previously, or their abilities/challenges? Even when asked? (And yes, I have their threads.)
ANSWER: There are now many different categories on the website that horses can go into. Previously there were not so many options and so people simply tried to list the horses where they thought they should go.
QUESTION: Why was the mare Sonya returned to Gary Seals Livestock, rather than put down per the sponsor’s wishes? Is it a CBER policy to return a horse to the slaughter pipeline if it is not deemed acceptable in some way? Why were yearlings Mango and Duffy also threatened with return to Gary Seals Livestock when they had been sitting awaiting a home for 6 months? How many other horses has CBER taken to Gary Seals Livestock with the intent of shipping them to slaughter? Why was the suffering of Blaze, Adam and Casino ignored by CBER?
ANSWER: These are very serious allegations. Please provide evidence that the statements you are making are, in fact, true. Once you provide this documentation, we will attempt to answer your question. Until then, your allegations are completely speculative.
PER YOUR REQUEST: Here ya’ go, straight from the sponsor’s mouth:
“Back in Feb of 2005, I started looking at their website and the horses at the feedlot. I saw many that I wanted to adopt. Then in March, I saw a crippled horse named Mishia on the Feedlot Efforts page. My heart sank. imagining the horrific ordeal she would go thru to get to the slaughter house. CBER was trying to come up with funds to put her down. I emailed and asked if she appeared to be in any pain. They said no. I went down to Yakima 1.5 weeks later and picked her up.
“While I was there I saw another horse. Her name was Sonya and she was lying down. When she did get up she was limping and appeared to be in quite a bit of pain. I inquired about her and CBER said she had been kicked at the feedlot and had foundered. The next day I sent $400 and my friend sent $200 to CBER to have her sponsored. Her meat price was $600. My request to them was if she was not able to heal from her injuries and was in pain that she be humanely put down. She was put in foster care and seemed to be doing fine. I went to Texas for a short trip and when I got back I found out thru my friend that Sonya was sent back to the feedlot by CBER and traded for another horse! The excuse was that she was acting aggresive at the foster home and trying to strike at different people.
“I like to ask here, what “rescue” in the true sense of the word … ever takes back a horse because it is not acting appropriately? Further more, CBER never had permission. I was out of town so they called my friend and TOLD her what they had done after the fact. I never heard one word from CBER until I emailed them and asked what was going on. They said they had no idea I had put the majority of the money down to have her sponsored. If they had, they would have contacted me but they had to make a fast desicion because she was acting so mean.
“I sent the money via PayPal … there is a record with a note attached for what the money was for … what kind of bookkeeping do they keep? In additon, I have documented emails stating that I wanted Sonya put down if she did not mend. If she was that aggresive it was probably from being in pain … if so, if she was that wild and crazy, I would have still wanted her put down instead of sending her on a truck to the slaughter house. Yes, sadly, she was tagged and shipped to Canada to be slaughtered.”
ANSWER:
QUESTION: The title of the donated truck lists it as a 1968 Ford PU. But the 990 has the value listed as around $25,000? Is this correct?
ANSWER: There were two trucks donated. Will review with accountant and come back with answer.
QUESTION: Who is answering these questions? Is it a member of the Board of Directors or a supporter? If the person answering these questions is not a CBER official, is CBER prepared to play by the rules this “unofficial person” has now laid down for them to abide by on TWR?
ANSWER: Several people are answering these questions. There are no rules being laid down, just attempts to answer your questions.
QUESTION: Why aren’t CBER BOD members (only) answering these questions, and why aren’t the posts being signed by whomever answers them? Can this page be taken seriously if CBER supporters keep editing or deleting questions and the answers are not coming from and being signed off by CBER BOD only?
ANSWER: Redundant question. See answer above.
QUESTION: What is included in QT of a horse at Camelot? What is the charge to the horse owner for that?
ANSWER: New horses stay in a special area away from the general population of the ranch. All horses are wormed and are given West Nile and 5 Way vaccinations (extra, as is other vet care). Horses are fed quality grass or alfalfa hay 3x a day. Charge for this standard care, which includes stall cleaning, is $9.00 a day.
QUESTION: So those vaccinations/deworming are included in that $9/day? No grain is included? What if the horse requires grain? Do you have that available for horses who require it for weight gain?
ANSWER: Grain is available.
QUESTION: Grain is available, or included in that $300/month? And vaccinations and deworming? Included or not?
ANSWER: First of all, $300 is not an accurate number, it is rounded up. Secondly this is a business matter to be negotiated by the horse’s owner and the facility’s owner.
QUESTION: How come this recent adopter and person who QT’d horses with Sam is under the impression that QT is $300/month/horse? LynnAustinTx 12:37 pm To: tufnspendy (28 of 37)
11222.28 in reply to 11222.15
Shouldn’t we just have to raise QT for one month for Royal since he has a home? The home can’t QT? One month of QT would be $300 vs 2 months at $600 added for Royal. Am I understanding this correctly?
ANSWER: She may be rounding up, or including worming and vaccines in the total. Asking the original poster (Lynne) is the only way to determine what she meant when she wrote that.
QUESTION: What is the protocol the State Vet prescribes/requires to deal with strangles at Gary Seals Livestock?
ANSWER: The State Vet suggests taking the temperature of each new horse available for adoption. If there is no temperature, the horses receive an intra-nasal vaccine and are given Penicillin for 10 days. A second shot is administered in 3 weeks. CBER does follow this protocol to the best of our ability. Additionally, horses from the Davenport Auction are no longer accepted at this facility as it has been suggested this area may have been the area responsible for spreading the disease.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION: Are you saying you take the temperatures of all CBER horses at Gary Seals Livestock and then administer penicillin for 10 days to every horse without a temperature? How is this possible with some of the unhandled horses? Doesn’t that go against what you posted earlier: “CBER currently works with Chuck Walker to encourage that basic standards of horse care are provided to the CBER-listed horses. Since these horses are in the Kill Pen and targeted to enter the human-consumption slaughter pipeline unless adopted, there are regulatory restrictions on the care that can be provided; for example, restrictions on medications that enter the bloodstream and tissue.” I would think penicillin would be one of the restricted medicines. Can you please explain the discrepancies in your policy?
ANSWER: No, we are not saying we do this for every horse. Not sure why you want to suggest a discrepancy. We do the best we can for each horse listed for adoption. Horses shipped for slaughter spend 30 days at the facility for detox purposes.
QUESTION: Which horses do you do this for and which do you not do it for? You must have to keep records for the state vet.
ANSWER: I don’t believe there is any record of this kept, and no, we don’t have to keep records for the state vet.
FOLLOW-UP: I am “suggesting” a discrepancy because your original answer stated: “The State Vet suggests taking the temperature of each new horse available for adoption. If there is no temperature, the horses receive an inter nasal vaccine and are given Penicillin for 10 days. A second shot is administered in 3 weeks. CBER does follow this protocol.”. Nowhere in that original statement did you say “to the best of our ability”. You went back, AFTER I posted my question and added: “to the best of our ability”. It’s right there in the “history” section if you’d care to look.
QUESTION: Who pays for this penecillan and the intranasal strangles vaccination ?
ANSWER: CBER pays for this. This is one of the reasons why we add an adoption fee to each horse.
QUESTION: The intranasal strangles (per the State vet) just started a few months ago… and yet you’ve had the $150 fee since ‘05. Care to explain?
ANSWER: There are many things that are paid for by the fee.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: If CBER pays for this, then why was this posted earlier:
QUESTION: Are the horses expenses covered by Walker until the horse is bought? ANSWER: Yes, except for topicals (not affecting slaughter-bound standards) applied by CBER volunteers.” Vaccinations and penicillin are not considered “topicals.”
ANSWER:
Question: With CBER’s claim of having “rescued” 2,500 horses from Chuck, it would suggest that with a profit of at least $200 per horse, he has made $500,000 from horses “rescued” by CBER alone! How does CBER or any supporter feel about giving that much money to a killbuyer?
ANSWER: It isn’t accurate to base financial data on guesses and supposition. CBER and our supporters happen to feel GREAT about helping the horses.
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION: The financial “data” is not based on guesses. All one needs is a calculator. Everyone feels great about helping horses; that goes without saying. However, that wasn’t my question. My question was, how everyone feels about giving half a million dollars to the killbuyer.
ANSWER: You have made yourself quite clear. It’s obvious you don’t support the way we choose to save the lives of horses. It’s not about the killbuyer, IT’S ABOUT THE HORSES. We do not want to get into a debate about this and will no longer answer any more questions of this nature. We are very proud of what we have done for the horses. I’m sorry you don’t understand, but you are entitled to your opinion.
QUESTION: What kind of training do the horses in CBER’s care get, prior to their being selected by a person for adoption to a forever home?
ANSWER: This varies and is determined by the horses’ needs.
FOLLOW-UP: Could you provide, say, 4 or 5 examples of typical “needs,” and what training is provided in connection with those “needs”? Thanks.
ANSWER: There aren’t really needs that are “typical” since every horse has different needs. However, some horses that haven’t been handled much get halter training and are taught manners before going on to a new home with someone qualified to take them to the next level. Abbey, a recent FOB save will spend two months under saddle at a training facility at the expense of her foster home. Some horses who have been in pasture and neglected just need time u/s to get some of the “rust” off and refresh their memories. Horses with bad manners such as not respecting space learn to be respectful. Some of the horses currently residing at Camelot farms are learning to be comfortable with trailering and spending time on the trails, so Sam is taking them out on a regular basis. Anything to help make these horses more adoptable.
FOLLOW-UP: Do the training activities you discuss generate training expenses? I saw on CBER’s 2005 return that it spent about $7,000 in training expenses. That’s what generated my question. I was wondering if all of the rescues that did not have immediate homes were given some training under saddle, although it doesn’t sound like that is the case. What kind of training activities are undertaken from time to time that result in a cost to CBER? Thanks!
ANSWER: When CBER first started, we did have training activities that generated expenses. While we do spend as much time with the horses as we can, we no longer undertake training at a cost to CBER. We simply don’t have the funds.
Comment to the CBER Volunteers: There are many of us who admire you for how you are handling these questions. It’s obvious the same people that hijack fund raising threads are here as well. Their intentions seem to be malicious and quite unwarranted.
Question: There are two horses listed in CBER fundraising threads who seem to be unaccounted for, Spring and Cecelia. I see Spring is listed in the CBER section “In Memory”. Can anyone let the FOBs/TWR community know what happened to these horses?
ANSWER: Spring was posted to the CBER In Memory page in error, now corrected. Spring is safe and in QT, pending adoption. Cecilia was sold by the feedlot owner. When this happens during a fund raising drive, the overall amount of funds needed for the at-risk horses is reduced by the amount of the horse sold outright by the feedlot owner.
Comment on a Question: Somebody asked: My question was, how everyone feels about giving half a million dollars to the killbuyer. I do not belong to CBER but I have donated money to them. I don’t know whether or not your number is accurate. But let’s say that it is. My answer is that I don’t care. I would rather the kill buyer get $500,000 for sending the horses off to be rescued versus getting only 5 cents for sending them off to be slaughtered. Rags to Riches was purchased for $1.9 Million by her current owners. That is nearly $2,000,000 for only ONE horse. If CBER has rescued 2500 horses with $500,000 going to a kill buyer..i.e. as was pointed out by the person with the calculator, each rescued horse only resulted in a profit of $200 per horse. I have a calculator too and at $200 per horse to save 2500 horses versus nearly $2,000,000 million to purchase ONLY one horse, I’d say that CBER is doing OK. Besides, how can anyone put a price on a horse’s life? What is a horse’s life worth? IMHO a living horse is priceless regardless of its pedigree.
QUESTION: A thread is raising funds for horses going on the slaughter truck 9/6, the horses have homes, and funds are being raised for ransom as well as QT costs. I understand that people have big hearts and will help without having the necessary funds, however why are funds raised for horses that have homes? Why are the “homes” not paying for the ransom + QT themselves? If the homes do not have funds to pay for either, how do we know that they have necessary funds to feed the horse? Why in this case, is it NOT stated up front that the homes can not afford the ransom+QT so the FOBs must foot the bill? Why is the cost for a horse going to slaughter so high? I heard a rumor that there are CBER costs added to the price of the horse. Can you clarify all these questions as I did not find any answers in this section.
QUESTION: I noticed the FOB saved horses “Peachy” and “Zesty” are listed in the “Memory” section of the CBER web site as “Gone”. What happened to them??
ANSWER: See FOB Horses section for the updates on Peachy and Zesty.
QUESTION: Lavender and Meadow were saved by the FOBs back in May. How are they doing and how come there aren’t any updated pictures/evaluations on them? They are still listed on the CBER web site with their original feedlot pictures. I would think they would have a better chance of being adopted if better pictures and updates were provided.
ANSWER: We agree, and wish we could get updated pictures as well. When we do, we will post an update in the FOB Horses section. Meanwhile, there are several updates posted for other FOB horses, please check that section out.
FOLLOW UP QUESTION: How can you not have updates on these horses? Where are they?
ANSWER: Both mares are in CBER’s care in Washington state. Have asked for updates, but believe the staff and volunteers are busy with horses having more urgent needs. Will ask again.
QUESTION: Can you post updates and pictures of all the horses that have been pulled from the “Kill Buyer” lot, such as Squirt, Woody and the others? None of the horses from this other lot have ever been mentioned in the wiki even though many were bailed by the FOBs.
ANSWER: Please be patient while we catch up posting the latest rescued horses, this is an entirely volunteer effort and extremely time-consuming. Have made many updates in the last couple days, including Squirt, Woody and many others. Still more horses to add. Thanks for your patience. For a more comprehensive list of FOB Horses, click here: http://columbiabasinequineresc.....st-FOB.asp
October 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Looks to me like they have bent over backwards to answer the questions even though the questions seem to be trying to pick a fight in many cases. Thank you for posting that. It nicely illustrates how they very much try to answer questions but that nothing is ever good enough for some people.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Tockshita - I especially like this line out of your post above:
“Comment to the CBER Volunteers: There are many of us who admire you for how you are handling these questions. It’s obvious the same people that hijack fund raising threads are here as well. Their intentions seem to be malicious and quite unwarranted.”
October 16th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
Lord above, Tockshita. How rude and, yes, NUTTY — making people scroll down for 20 minutes past your book length comment. Something is wrong with you, without a doubt — you are obsessed. It’s called a COMMENTS section. How many positive horse things could you have done in the 6 hours it took you to write a book length comment? You have a personal grudge. You have a vendetta. You don’t care that it hurts the horses. Noted, noted and noted.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
This is the agreement CBER makes their volunteers sign.
What are they afraid the volunteers will tell?
By Submitting this Application you are agreeing to the following.
I hereby agree to accept a position as a volunteer for Columbia Basin Equine Rescue (herein after referred to as “CBER”), and in doing so, I agree to comply with all of the rules and regulations which may be established from time to time by CBER, and I understand that failure to do so may result in my immediate termination as a volunteer.** As a volunteer for CBER, I agree to not disclose information internal to the organization, without permission for dissemination from the CBER Board Members.** I agree to perform any volunteer service in an ethical manner, and not violate the CBER mission statement.
I agree that in the event that I am no longer a volunteer for CBER, that** I hereby promise to “do no harm” to CBER as an organization, it’s volunteers, or to any associated individuals or organizations. I understand that the “do no harm” provision encompasses but is not limited to the dissemination of internal CBER information for an indefinite period of time, as well as unwanted contact with CBER Board Members, Volunteers, Members, Applicants, and Adopters. I understand that this contact will constitute harassment, and that any and all legal recourse will be taken.**
I acknowledge that my services are provided strictly on a volunteer basis, without any pay or compensation of any kind, and without liability of any nature on behalf of CBER. All services will be performed at my own risk.
I recognize that in handling animals and performing other volunteer tasks there exists a risk of injury including physical harm caused by the animals. On behalf of myself, my heirs, person representatives, and executors, I hereby release, discharge, indemnify and hold harmless CBER, it’s agents, servants, and employees from any and all claims, causes of action, or demands, or any nature or cause, including costs and attorney’s fees incurred by CBER in connection with the same, based on damages or injuries which may be incurred or sustained by me in any way connected with my services for CBER, including but not limited to accidents or injuries.
By submitting this application, you are agreeing to allow CBER to run a Criminal Background Check, for the safety of our members, the horses, and other volunteers.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Lost Cause, I have to take that to mean you can not tell me anything positive about CBER and so once again you have to make this personal against some one you don’t even know. I asked with sincere intentions of trying to keep an open mind. Which kind of proves my point. There really isn’t anything good about the group of horse brokers known as CBER.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Lord above, Tockshita. How rude and, yes, NUTTY — making people scroll down for 20 minutes past your book length comment. Something is wrong with you, without a doubt — you are obsessed. Time to find a psychiatrist, honey.
It’s called a COMMENTS section. How many positive horse things could you have done in the 6 hours it took you to write a book length comment? You have a personal grudge. You have a vendetta. You don’t care that it hurts the horses. Noted, noted and noted.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Bones, how about this for positive? They save horses’ lives. Enough said. Frankly I think I could tell you that they were the next Ghandi and you would find something negative. THEY SAVE HORSES’ LIVES! They do that day in and day out. They do that all the time.
They save horses’ lives. That, my dear, is the beginning and the end of it.
October 16th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
THEY do not save those horses, the kind and generous people who cough up meat price x 2 plus the CBER fee of $150 PLUS $300 for quarantine are the ones who saved them.
CBER has not, as evidenced by the growing rather than declining numbers from the USDA, lowered the number of horses going to slaughter.
Changed the faces? Sure.
Condemned others by giving the dealer more money to play with? Sure.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
So then it isn’t CBER you have a problem with. It is feedlot rescue. Apparently it isn’t the money, since faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more then that is cost on every single PMU rescue out there. You don’t WANT anyone to save the feedlot horses specifically. You want people to turn their backs and let them die simply because you don’t like the lengths that people have to go to to rescue them. How absolutely horribly selfish of you.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Also, since someone quoted FHOTD on here earlier, maybe you have noticed that she just recently went and bought a horse from a kill buyer, thereby giving him more money to play with too. But that horse is alive and she will have a good life now as a broodmare to nice foals.
To quote FHOTD:
“Ole or any other dealer who sells some to slaughter is not the villain here.” She goes on to say that the last person who had the horse is the one who is responsible for it going to slaughter because with just a little time and effort she could have found the mare a good home. Well CBER puts in that time and effort for the feedlot horses. CBER tries to help these horses by giving them a second chance. That is the key here - any horse CBER lists gets a second chance.
You want to take that second chance from these horses, and I will never understand why. I will never understand why someone who calls themselves horse lovers would want to prevent horses from being adopted. Once the horses make it to the feedlot there is no one else to help them except CBER. You are not offering to go help those horses, all you are trying to do is to keep other people from helping them. What is wrong with you?
October 16th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
This really is a “lost cause”. I’m done wasting my time here.
Folks reading this, please do what ever you can to save horses and end slaughter. However, when helping horses, please send your $$ to a rescue that really does care about saving horses and not lining their pockets.
Go to the various horse BBs and you will find many recues, some asking for help and some not. But you will NEVER see the turmoil and ugliness with any of them that you will see with CBER.
PLEASE, put your $$ where it goes to the horses, for the horses and not into some one’s pocket.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Yeah, FHOTH paid $350 for a mare with excellent confirmation and did not have to pay $300 on top of that for QT. Nor did she pay for feed and vet care and farrier care that was not given to the horse. BIG, BIG difference here.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
CBER cares very much about saving horses. If CBER doesn’t save horses off this feedlot, who will?
CBER is only allowed to list a limited amount of horses and even that doesn’t make them safe from shipment.
The alternative is to get to the idiots who bring their horses to auctions or feedlots. We can’t stop people from being idiots, but we can at least try to save some of their horses. It’s not the horses fault, at least CBER is there to give some of them a chance.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
FHOTD gave him $350 for that horse.
Nowhere near what CBER gets for their ’saves’ and I am guessing maybe $100 profit for Ole after you take out the hauling and the holding of that horse for the days he held her. That does not compare to Chuck doubling the meat price, then CBER throwing their $150 on top of it, AND THEN adding on $300 for QT that people could do at their own homes!
I prefer to save as many as one can- so get them at the auctions, from the tracks, or from rescues (who have put more into the horse than taking a picture and a half arsed evaluation that garners them a whopping $150 plus per horse). Don’t grease the slaughter industry wheels with a single dime, and HEY! drive up their prices while you are there if you can!
I feel badly for ALL horses who go to slaughter, those who someone tried to save AND especially the 2 or 3 bought with the money handed to the dealer/KB to save one.
Again, attacking those who ask questions of CBER rather than answering the questions shows the true nature of this “rescue” and their followers.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
So then, one simple question bones and tockshita. A one word answer please, it should be easy enough, especially given your adament reference to questions asked.
Do you want CBER to stop trying to save the feedlot horses?
Yes or No.
October 16th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
This is not a simple yes or no question for me LC. Sorry, still want my answer although it will be more then one word?
October 16th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Chuck sells these horses to the public he has horses for sale signs all over the place. Why is CBER the last chance if anyone can walk up there and buy a horse from him.
October 16th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Not Your Mama: So then, are you saying that it is NEVER cber’s fault when a horse ships? Since of course someone could just have gone and bought it. And that it is NEVER cber’s fault when they don’t snap up a horse right away and take it to their ranch? Since of course someone else could have done it. People blame CBER when anything goes wrong at that lot, how nice to think that instead of CBER being to blame, it is the rest of the world who failed to walk up.
Same thing when people come on here or somewhere and point to people like me and say LOOK! CBER supporter is being mean to me! What a baaaaaaaaaad thing for CBER to be doing! And yet, if say, some horse was in trouble and I raced out to save it those same people would say “Oh CBER wouldn’t save that horse! One of their supporters had to do it!” So, CBER would get the blame for anything negative I did, but not the credit for anything positive?
October 16th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
Hi everybody, I’m Katie 14, I wish you the best of luck in STOPING Horse slaughter for good, and rescuing horses!!!! I HATE slaughter, it is totally wrong to kill a horse like slaughter does, let alone for some else to eat! I own four horses, and I’m am saving my money so that I can rescue a horse eventually! I look at CBER everyday, and I even post pictures and a short description of the slaughter horses, on a horse website I play, and tell other horse lovers about your site, so that the horses will atleast get another chance to live. I hope to help rescue horses someday, and help stop horse slaughter all together! Keep up your good work!
October 16th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Lost cause I am not saying it is CBERS fault these horses get shipped. I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the people that sold them to the KB or at the auction and of course Chuck himself.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
Nope not an easy one word answere here either.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
I too agree that CBER is saving horses’ lives. All the bickering doesn’t save any. Neither does the politics. I can’t blame CBER people for fighting back here, when they’re attacked. I mean, c’mon. They are being viciously attacked.
Yes, go save horses from auctions, from abusive owners, whatever, but the horses CBER deals with at the feedlots count too. Not as a group, not as a type but as individual lives. It’s not CBER, but humanity to blame for these animals being abandoned in the first place. And, the US gov’t for not only deeming this behavior to be legal, but letting people make money off of it.
I personally, after looking at CBER’s site, don’t see expensive horse prices. If I looked in my local newspaper at horse ads, the horses there cost much more. Horse board locally here, per month, is about the same.
And now CBER bashers are, in essence, supporting not quarantining feedlot horses? Wow! Is that both dangerous and stupid. Yes, stupid. And insane, to bash a rescue for looking out for other horses, and the new adopters’ horses already at home.
This poor rescue just can’t win. But at least they’re saving horses, out there in the manure while you sit at home all cozy on the computer, HURTING horses.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Once again the only entity here that I know of that has SENT a horse to slaughter is…
CBER!!
I’m constantly amazed how everyone just glosses over that fact. Like it is in invisible ink! They TRIED to send at LEAST one more but a REAL rescue took that one in.
For every 10 or so horses CBER “saves” (who saved? seems they don’t pay for a thing.) 20 or 40 more go to the canner. Many of them bought with the inflated proceeds brought to them by…
CBER!!
Money Chuckie wouldn’t have had extra to spend.
I don’t want CBER to stop “saving” horses, I want them to be what they are, a DEALER and stop acting under the guise of charity and taking other people’s money to make a profit on. Go buy them and flip them, they can even use the truck is coming shtick, just do it on their own dime!
OR be a real rescue and go get the horses, make them healthy, assess them correctly and price them at what they are worth. Ah but that costs so MUCH money!
It’s not the mission people object to, its the MO they carry it out with.
RIP Sonya, you deserved better.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
It is perfectly permissable to QT at home if you have the right facilities.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
This will be short. Just finished reading from CBER’s WIKI page. At one point it mentions testimonials. Recently, while reading the Rescues Only board, there was a thread asking for testimonials or positive stories about CBER horses (and, I might add, only CBER horses, not from other rescues). A few people posted that they would submit one. Nothing happened. Shortly thereafter, $50 was offered for any testimonial. Hmmm.
Just kind of interesting if there are so many happy-dappy endings for horses CBER brokers that CBER folks are offering money for testimonials. Don’t you think?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
Get your facts straight before posting please. There is a contest going on where the winner will get $50. One of the people on the board offered it out of her own pocket and it was made clear that it was a private deal between that person and the contestants.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
So do you guys agree with CBER or not?
October 17th, 2007 at 12:06 am
I am glad that they are there to help those horses. I think that CBER does have it’s faults, but they seem to be constantly trying to improve and I don’t think it is fair to judge an all-volunteer organization too harshly - especially when you can’t/won’t volunteer to help. Overall I think that they are good people who are doing their best in a bad situation.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:30 am
Get Your Facts Straight says:
Get your facts straight before posting please. There is a contest going on where the winner will get $50. One of the people on the board offered it out of her own pocket and it was made clear that it was a private deal between that person and the contestants.
~~~
Wow, that’s really generous, especially since CBER benefits.
And how is that working for her? Testimonials flooding in? I mean, with so many great “placements” a year, one would expect minimally, what, 50, 75, 100 glowing testimonials?
October 17th, 2007 at 11:38 am
I don’t know, but I do enjoy reading the Success Story page and I like to point my friends to it when they tell me that I am wasting my time with “canners”.
October 17th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
A great article desparaged by a bunch of junior high school kids. I thought most horse people were a little older.
October 18th, 2007 at 12:30 am
~HoRsE LoVeR~ says:
October 16th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
So do you guys agree with CBER or not?
~~~
Depends on who you call “you guys.” Many of us who have researched CBER (or had personal experiences with CBER) do not agree with its rescue model, no. A good horse trader, for example, will not misrepresent a horse. A good rescue, as well, will not misrepresent a horse, will have trained and medically treated the horse, and will follow up on an “adoption” as well as have an “adoption contract” rather than a “bill of sale.”
Which is CBER, rescue or horse trader?
As far as the CBER supporters who have “commented” here - please notice that they never, as far as I can tell, address any of the concerns of those who consider CBER less than ideal. They just muddy the waters. This is par for the course. In law, it’s called throwing out “a red herring.”
Do your research, potential money donors, and then decide.
October 18th, 2007 at 8:20 pm
~HoRsE LoVeR~ says:
October 16th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
So do you guys agree with CBER or not?
Google John Holland, one of the staunchest anti-slaughter peeps on the planet.
Read his post on Alex Brown/Tm Woolley about NOT facilitating the slaughter industry by buying horses from feedlots, but also further slimming the slaughter industrys profit margin by bumping prices at auctions.
So, is John Holland Pro-slaughter and Anti-horse?
October 19th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
Oh happy day, I found an example.
There is a fundraising (sort of) thread on the Alex Brown Racing forum right now. Some feedlot horses who were supposed to ship yesterday, now may ship tomorrow or “may be there for a few weeks.” Typical.
Two of the horses are listed as 11 or 12 years of age, both having lip tattoos (racing identification) beginning with the letter Q. See this post and the next:
http://forums.delphiforums.com.....=15883.227
This is not rocket science. The letters on lip tattoos designate the year of birth:
Thoroughbred Tattoos always start with the year of birth’s letter
designation (each year is assigned a letter) followed by the year
of birth (99 for example) followed by the last five digits of their
Jockey Club registration number.
Here are the letters through 2003:
X 1968
Y 1969
Z 1970
A 1971
B 1972
C 1973
D 1974
E 1975
F 1976
G 1977
H 1978
I 1979
J 1980
K 1981
L 1982
M 1983
N 1984
O 1985
P 1986
Q 1987
R 1988
S 1989
T 1990
U 1991
V 1992
W 1993
X 1994
Y 1995
Z 1996
A 1997
B 1998
C 1999
D 2000
E 2001
F 2002
G 2003
See http://www.equinerescue.info/tattoos.txt
Thus, these horses are being advertised as 11 or 12 when in fact they are 20 years old.
Nice! Also, not real bright……
October 20th, 2007 at 1:32 am
Wow P. O’Brien, does your every fiber of existence thrive on coming up with stupid things like this? You are so proud of yourself as if you just cured cancer. For Pete’s sake, get a life!!
If you have any experience reading tattoos you know it’s not always easy to figure them out. You also seem to forget that the horses teeth are also looked at. Another thing is that the information on the horses can sometimes go through several layers of people , and every now and then a mistake is made when transferring the information.
Good grief. The fact you are still trying to find negative information and going to several boards to “try” to prove your point is a little scary. No, I take that back, it’s A LOT scary.
October 20th, 2007 at 1:39 am
P.S. I adopted a horse from CBER and she was aged at 9 years old. She turned out to be 7. OMG! I should try and return her because they lied about her age. You are SO right! Jeez…
October 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Well, CBER supporter, it doesn’t really matter if this seems scary to you, does it? Currently there is the third recent CBER fundraiser on the Alex Brown Racing forum that is falling way short of any of CBER’s $$$$$$$ goals. Most of the FOBs have figured CBER out and, since the moderator won’t allow any tough questions of CBER (strange in itself), CBER is just being ignored. The FOBs have proven over and over again how much they care about horses, and ending slaughter. Last I checked they had raised $650,000 for horses. For them to turn on the “mute” button for a CBER fundraiser says a lot about CBER (not to mention a lot about the FOBs’ increasing ability to discern the real from the phony).
October 20th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Why would the truth scare you CBER Supporter? The fact of the matter
is the horse is listed as 11 years old. The fact of the matter is
the horse is really 20 years old. And lame. The fact is that by the
time you buy her for the outrageous price of $700 and tack on the QT
for another $300 you have a 20 year old, lame pasture pet for over a
$1000.
Now take that $1000 and go to another rescue and that same amount of
$$ will help several horses.
Once again there is a truck coming. Does CBER lower the price on the
horses in order to get them out of there? No. And don’t give me that
crap about Chuck sets the price. He does not control all the extra
fees that CBER sets on each horse. (and just how do all the extra fees
help the horses? Especially when no one can come up with all that $$
and the horse ends up on the truck?)
I think that the reason you CBER supporters are so scared of the
truth is because if the truth gets out, people will decide to support a
rescue where the horses come first and not the $$.
We “harpies” come on here with valid questions and facts that we want
explained. But you can’t do that. Instead you try calling us names
and attacking us rather then answer questions or explain the goings on.
Why? Because you really can’t argue with the truth and the truth is
the group known as CBER is no more than a dishonest horse dealer.
October 20th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Well, P. O. I am learning quite a bit about how perceptive you are. If you were really paying attention, you would have noticed that CBER is not doing ANY fund raising on the Alex Brown board. The FOBs have been extremely supportive and CBER acknowledges and appreciates this. However, if we are to turn to that thread, it may be to help spread the word about horses that need homes, NOT to raise money. Any monies being solicited are via FOBs who want to save horses. These are true horse lovers who care about the horses and understand the feedlot horses have no options. There is no “mute” button because there is no fund raising. Do you really think that the “moderator” doesn’t know what you are all about? He has seen how the same few people attack every thread and if you go to the CBER Wiki and look at the history, you will see that almost every single question asked has come from the same half a dozen people that continue to derail and poison CBER. Interestingly enough, most of the questions relate to old CBER history. Believe it or not, CBER is learning from it’s mistakes.
And bones, I don’t know how long it’s been since you have been involved with CBER, but things have actually changed. The truth has come out quite a bit and I’m pretty sure no one is scared of it. If you harpies would play fair and stop trying to derail CBER’s efforts, you just might find CBER is willing to communicate with you. As long as you continue to undermine everything CBER is about it’s difficult to accomplish anything. I actually decided to support CBER in an attempt to make things better because there have been mistakes made in the past. Instead of going against them, I decided to try and help. I would be more than happy to communicate with you one on one via phone or email and extend an olive branch. I am not dishonest and I don’t tolerate dishonesty. All CBER is doing is trying to give some horses a second chance.
Again, if you want to continue this discussion privately, just let me know and we’ll figure out how to do it. I have nothing to hide and neither does Columbia Basin Equine Rescue.
P.S. I will be reviewing monetary details with CBER’s accountant. I would love to see the fees dropped if it means more horses are spared. Like I said, I decided to become a CBER supporter in order to help make some changes. Even if you don’t believe it, some of us are trying to make a difference.
October 21st, 2007 at 10:28 am
CBER supporter,
It is true the thread started out as a thread looking for adopters. It soon became a fundraising thread (as many of us knew it would).
It is also true that two rescues have expressed interest in two horses who were held from the truck. They are asking CBER, rescue to “rescue”, to reduce or drop the $300 QT rquirement at Sam’s (which is NOT mandated by the state vet as CBER says).
Maybe you can work with CBER on this issue. Let us know how that goes for you, okay?
October 21st, 2007 at 11:23 am
“The fact of the matter
is the horse is listed as 11 years old. The fact of the matter is
the horse is really 20 years old. And lame. The fact is that by the
time you buy her for the outrageous price of $700 and tack on the QT
for another $300 you have a 20 year old, lame pasture pet for over a
$1000.”
Now add in that the Pres of CBER is not at the lot making sure horses who are saved do not accidentally get loaded, or to insure that with last minute donations, ’saves’ can be removed from the lot, but Samantha Panayotopulos chooses to be at Hermiston Auction instead. Not to mention on the day catalog horses are going through (ie the nicer horses not the ones at greatest risk for slaughter) not the following day when the unregistered lowest of the low horses will go through, buying herself a horse she calls a “personal rescue”. Why can’t she make those old TB mares her personal rescue?
Then it takes her almost a whole day to let her minions know so they can let the FOBs know that the horse shipped “early early this morning” Gee thanks for that update Sam, glad you were able to get yer beauty sleep.
Now add in that her new bff Tufnspendy/leosolis, Shawan Byington is ALSO there at her side buying a mare (TO BREED!) as her own personal rescue. Again because the horses at Chucks lot or Shawnas Killerbuyers (Harriman) lot
are not worthy of them saving? Too expensive? Too infected with Super-Strangles? What?
What do you get? A realy funky hairy taste in your mouth.
Sure we want them to go to auction and save more horses for less $.
But NOT while horses they solicited funds for (and were not exactly honest about in the first place) whom they themselves placed in jeopardy by giving $ to Chuck to go buy them in the first place are shipping and only for lack of partial funds and homes and the FOBs are ripping their hair out wondering how close to saved these horses are!
How many times have we read CBER/Sam/Shawna post that there is no room at their farms for horses without homes? That there are no funds to save one last horse who is a few hundred dollars from ’saved’? But once again, they suddenly find room, and funds… just like when those horses the FOBs had sent in piles of $ for shipped because there was no home offers and yet, the VERY Next DAY somehow, miraculously Sam hauled her butt to the lot and ’saved’ 4 horses and placed them at her farm that previously had not had room for more?
None of this is a surprise to those of us who have watched CBER take the same route time after time after time… the route that involves more funds for them, even at the cost of horsey lives that they themselve put in jeopardy in the first place.
October 22nd, 2007 at 9:41 am
CBER Supporter said:
If you harpies would play fair and stop trying to derail CBER’s efforts, you just might find CBER is willing to communicate with you. As long as you continue to undermine everything CBER is about it’s difficult to accomplish anything. I actually decided to support CBER in an attempt to make things better because there have been mistakes made in the past. Instead of going against them, I decided to try and help. . . . All CBER is doing is trying to give some horses a second chance.
~~~
Well, I just read on the ABR forum that CBER has lost the two rescue adopters for two lovely horses. Nice work. Sorry, I can’t help but feel that this is at least partly because CBER will NEVER bend when it comes to its $300 QT and $150 “handling” charge for each horse, and partly because no one can trust CBER assessments of horses. Both rescues were on the East Coast and would have been great homes. They would have paid for transport, which would not be cheap. They explain:
Hello All,
It’s Christine from Gentle Giants, and I’m also posting on behalf of Summer Wind Stables Rescue for Elena.
It’s been a complicated road, but this is where both rescues stand. I know that many of you may not understand, but both rescues have decided that we are gracefully bowing out of the adoptions of Cavalier and Pastel. I hope some of you can try to understand. Our experiences with CBER have left us uncomfortable with these horses and the adoption process, and both rescues have instead chosen to use their funds to help local horses in need whom we can evaluate ourselves.
Last night I spoke at length with Jennifer, one of CBER’s Board Members. She saw references to this thread on another chat board and only by that was she alerted to the ongoing situation. She is very upset about how GGDHR and SWS have been treated throughout this ordeal. She is very apologetic and accomodating, and has assured me that changes will be made so that something like this doesn’t happen again. She is working on solving the issue of communication problems, conflicting horse evaluations, and inexperienced or improperly trained “placement specialists”.
Neither GGDHR or SWS harbor any bad feelings toward CBER and we both hope they continue to flourish and do well! But due to the conflicting reports and assements of our horses, we can’t invest so much of our donors money for horses who we don’t know their ages or soundness. It simply is not practical, when there are good horses in need everywhere. It is hard once you see their pleading eyes, but realistically Cavalier and Pastel are only two out of thousands in need. Those pleading eyes are at every sale that we attend. And while it is our duty to help them, it is also our duty to be rational and protective of our donors support, and to use it to it’s best purpose.
I hope you all can understand, and trust our judgment on this one. Good luck, Cavalier and Pastel, we sincerely hope a home finds you in time.
http://forums.delphiforums.com.....=15983.113
So much for CBER giving horses “a second chance” if any reduction of its add-ons is affected.
October 31st, 2007 at 11:09 pm
A young woman excited about a cause wrote a wonderful article. Welcome to the world of horse rescue Emily Murdoch.
November 17th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Yes, it was a good article in some way. Too bad she was fooled by a faux rescue when there are so many that need help…..
November 18th, 2007 at 2:24 am
Hey Em, you watching CBER right now? What are your feelings about the two Arab mares that were put down because “winter is coming”? Are you watching how questions about this are NOT being answered? Posts are being deleted and I am sure people that are asking the questions are being banned. Yeah, this group is really “for the horses”, NOT.
But CBER got what they wanted didn’t they? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Lets just sweep this mess under the table, like all the other messes before it and go out and bring in more $$
poor mares.
Oh, and do you read the ABRB? Did you see CBER’s “Creep” list? WOW! I am convinced more then ever that this is a group to steer clear of. There are many worthy rescues out there to help, this is NOT one of them!
November 18th, 2007 at 2:34 am
Tell that to the five horses I have taken from the lot P. OBrien.
November 28th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
CBER cannot function without funds, that is the bottom line. I am adopting a horse from them knowing that it costs more, they do not try to keep this a secret. I also understand that they cannot do what they do without $. CBER encourages people to go to the auctions and bid against the killbuyer and rescue this way if you can. If you do not agree with the way they do business, simply do not do business with them. The fact is that they are trying to save horses in a uncomplicated and practical manner. No need to go on the website and criticize what they do just because you feel they cost too much. The little Fjord mare that I’m adopting gets to have a loving home because of them. Perhaps the extra costs helps ensure she has a home that can afford her.
December 7th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Katie, What expenses does CBER have? The horses are purchased NOT with funds from CBER but what ever $$ they can raise from kind hearted folks who do not know what is really going on here. At one time they were tacking on a fee of $20 just for some one to ride the horse. They then tack on fees for transport and who knows what else these days. All paid by the person taking the horse NOT CBER. The horse then goes in to QT paid for NOT by CBER but by the person getting the horse. The horse needs meds or vet care, once again paid by the person getting the horse NOT CBER. So please do explain what exactly do they need all the extra $$ for. It’s sure NOT for the horses.
CBER would love it if all of us would just go away and shut our mouths because then others will never find out the truth and that is that this is NOT a rescue, it’s a scam. Just think of all the $$ that could be put to good use and save so many more horses.
If you want to support such an operation, it’s your choice. All I want to say to any one new coming to this “rescue” is go in with your eyes open and ask questions. See how long you last once you question anything. They will boot your butt right out of there and start calling you harpies and put your name and personal info on their “creep list”. Is this the kind of people you want to associate with?
December 7th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
“Hey Em, you watching CBER right now? What are your feelings about the two Arab mares that were put down because “winter is comingâ€?”
It looks like “Put down” = “shot” in the CBER world. Seems with all the money they rake in, they could afford a better ending for these girls.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
saw that after I made my post. Shot in the head and left to rot in a pasture or where ever they left them. Disgusting.
And don’t you think with all the $$ they rake in that they could have had a vet out to check the one mare that wasn’t keeping weight on? And why did they shoot the other horse? Just because it was the thin mares buddy? And people still have call this a “rescue”?
December 7th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
disgusting. just disgusting. and the fact the ads say they were humanely euthanized is just appalling. In fact, there are 11 horses on their website that were said to be euthanized. I wonder how much a bullet cost those poor people - my guess would be $300 because they had to be CBER approved bullets.
December 7th, 2007 at 11:38 pm
Recommended reading (the whole thing):
http://forums.delphiforums.com.....sg=17602.1
Ah, CBER. How long before you disappear? You are a blight!!! on the horse rescue world. Legitimate rescues are ashamed of you!
December 8th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Hey Em, It looks like same, by her own words, also disposes of them at the dump after they are shot!!! See below in Sam’s own words.
“Hi All -
I am going to respond once and will not monitor this thread so do not complain that I do not respond I am pressed for time as it is. Also this is going to be to the point and not my flowery bubby response as I am frustrated that this issue is still present.
I have been trying to save you all from these graphic details but you will not let this issue rest. So here we go.
Yes, Lavendar and Meadow were put down by a bullet to the head with the support from most of the CBER BOD. There were not shot in front of one another. They were both tranquilized because they would freak out if they were separated. Meadow was taken first as she would react more violent when separated, so it was decieded to put her down first before the drugs wore off. She was hauled out to a grassy field on a friend’s 350 acre ranch and was put down while drousily eating grain. Lavendar was taken to another part of his property and put down in the same manner.
Why a bullet? I prefer this method for my own horses. I take all the horses in my care seriously. While death is not a fun topic it is part of life and what is importatnt to me is that the horse has no fear, does not suffer and rests in a digified place.
An unsuspecting bullet to the head of a tranquilized horse or a horse eating grain is the quickest, there is no fear and the horse is dead before it hits the ground or the noise of the bullet registers in your brain. The horses are laid to rest back in nature to be recycled naturally. To me a dignified end.
While Euthasol is a very effective drug, the process for CBER has its short comings. We do not have a renderer in this area so we are forced to put horses down in a trailer and dispose of them at a dump. First, what horse do you know that does not get nervous in a trailer? Second, what horse do you know that likes shots and vets? Third, once the drug is administered the horse colapses often violetly smacking his head on the trailer wall. While the horse is technically dead it is tramatic for the person holding the horse. Forth, transporting the horse to the dump. I will do just about anything for CBER but I WILL NOT HAVE DEAD HORSES IN MY TRAILER period. Fifth, disposing of the body at the dump. I have not taken a horse to the dump as no equine friend of mine is going to rot with yesterdays trash, but that is just my opinion.
Last time I witnessed a horse put down by Euthanol the horse did not die with the usual dosage and the horse was flopping around in the trailer. I REFUSE TO WITNESS THAT AGAIN.
This is my opinion and I stick by it as do most CBER volunteers do, because our options are not ideal. If someone wants their horse put down in another way I am happy to supply the vet, haulers and the dumps information but I will not assist in any other way.
Thanks for your time and eyes,
Sam”
December 8th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Sam says:
Why a bullet? I prefer this method for my own horses. I take all the horses in my care seriously. While death is not a fun topic it is part of life and what is importatnt to me is that the horse has no fear, does not suffer and rests in a digified place.
~~
How convenient that this method is also inexpensive, and “recycling” the horses (leaving them out for predators to eat) is free.
The saddest part of this story was one mare did not need to die, and quite possibly the other mare - with proper veterinary care (vet was not consulted) and feeding - did not need to die either.
It looks like these two ladies were just inconvenient, and it was easier and cheaper to kill them than it was to help them.
Compare that philosophy re euthanasia with that of Habitat for Horses, another large and very legitimate rescue:
http://forums.delphiforums.com.....=17432.241
January 6th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Sam WILL NOT dump a horse at the dump. Read it in “Sam’s own words”. Debate over euthanization by drug or bullet, but the method is chosen by the individual. Both methods are legal, by the way.
As for the author, she is too busy helping horses to waste time on internet fighting like you all seem to do. It seems that is all you do, while CBER saves horses.
You’re calling the author “Em”? Is she a friend of yours? Somehow I doubt that. All you cowards hide behind your silly screen names. Go save some horses and get off the computer for a change.
January 6th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
I forgot to add:
Ms Murdoch, we’re all waiting for more articles from you! Itchmo could use some (superb) horse coverage. Keep writing for the horses!
Kate B.
January 6th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Wow.
Superb horse coverage.
Indeed.
January 7th, 2008 at 2:05 am
Yup, INDEED. I’m looking forward to seeing her continue to use her talent to bring attention to horse slaughter in this country. While you and your cronies snivel, fight and endanger the feedlot horses with your vindictive and certifiable rantings, she’s using her words to make a difference. Have to admire that.
January 12th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Savehorsesnow, “I and my vindictive cronies” work quite hard and spend a lot of money saving horses and helping legitimate rescues financially.
CBER is not a rescue, but a horse trader, and a dishonest horse trader - in the opinions of many, including former “volunteers.” Legitimate horse rescues don’t shoot mares (Lavender and Meadow) rather than having a vet visit or paying for feed. Trust me on this one. Legitimate rescues are sometimes called in to re-rescue CBER-placed horses. Legitimate rescues make sure their horses are going to good and safe homes. Legitimate rescues make sure horses they place are healthy, both physically and emotionally. They put time, money and training into the horses first.
So get real and try addressing the actual issues instead of spewing childish attacks. Or better yet, try making CBER into an actual rescue. That would be a lovely change and we all would welcome it.
January 12th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Savehorsesnow, “I and my vindictive cronies” work quite hard and spend a lot of money saving horses and helping legitimate rescues financially.
CBER is not a rescue, but a horse trader, and a dishonest horse trader - in the opinions of many, including former “volunteers.” Legitimate horse rescues don’t shoot mares (Lavender and Meadow) rather than having a vet visit or paying for feed. Trust me on this one. Legitimate rescues are sometimes called in to re-rescue CBER-placed horses. Legitimate rescues make sure their horses are going to good and safe homes. Legitimate rescues make sure horses they place are healthy, both physically and emotionally.
So get real and try addressing the actual issues instead of spewing childish attacks. Or better yet, try to improve CBER and make it into a real rescue. That would serve the whole planet.
As far as the author of this piece, I hope in the future she does her homework before promoting a faux rescue.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
After reading Emily Murdoch’s article about horse slaughter, I would just like to say thank you Emily, for caring enough to post that article. What we need is more people like you to actually make a difference. As far as CBER goes, I know someone who used to be a highly active volunteer for them, and I agree with the statements saying that CBER isn’t a legitimate rescue. Sorry, but you don’t kill horses to avoid having the vet come to see them or feeding them, because the purpose of a horse rescue is to SAVE LIVES. Sam, who I have met in person more than once, seems to be a nice, caring person, but it is now apparent that she is just the opposite. So, Sam, please take your “horse rescue” and shove it up your ass.
Thank you for your time.
April 2nd, 2008 at 4:59 am
it is not nice for people to do that to horses it should be stoppes right away
April 7th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
The horse Kiva Glow was placed once by this organization with a lady in Thorp. She couldn’t keep the horse for one reason or another and this “rescue” would not take it back. The horse was returned to the lot it was originally rescued from, the organization listed it for adoption again-but this time the horse shipped. To bad that the “rescue” didn’t keep the horse safe the first time they placed it and failed it the second time it was in need. This is not a rescue…they are middlemen for a horse broker.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
CBER is now officially out of business, thank goodness. Why do I say that? It has been common knowledge for years that Sam has been ripping people off right , left and center. She and her thinly disguised rescue is nothing more than a horse trader that pays on people’s emotions. Her orginization is now under investigation. You can find out much more at these 2 blog posts from a former volunteer.
http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blog.....lodes.html
http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blog.....horse.html
May 11th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I could not be happier to hear that CBER is no longer in buisness. I have re-rescued a horse that they placed with a gal who horribly neglected the little filly. She will never be more than 13h and should have matured to 15+h. I called CBER to let them know what happens when they don’t check people out and they didn’t seem to care. I applaud whom ever it was who was able to get them shut down. Thank you!
June 27th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Hello Everyone!
I want to thank everyone who read and commented on my article on horse slaughter. Thank you for your praise, your passion, and even the heated debate. Only by such discussions can important knowledge be shared and perhaps, hopefully, more horses saved. I am happy knowing my writing about horse slaughter has reached people who had no idea this practice exists, and my dear wish remains that, as more of us become aware, we can make the final difference for these horses.
I am no longer an advocate of CBER, although I remain an advocate of all horses on feedlots awaiting the horrific journey to slaughter. I continue to help these unfortunate horses through rescues closer to home.
Thanks again for taking the time out of your busy lives to read and comment on my article. I hope you use that kindled passion to help save the horses! You can do this through your support of those rescues you trust and admire. As anyone rehabbing rescue horses knows, it is an expensive proposition and donations are always appreciated, whether they be horse items, yourself and your time, or financial donations.
All the best to everyone,
Emily Murdoch
July 10th, 2008 at 2:19 am
I too used to support CBER and $am…but after finding out that she returns horses to the feedlot to send to slaughter because they are done with QT (only her ranch is allowed to do QT for Cber horses adopted)..and no longer generating income for her..she “kills” them! This is NOT a rescue…it is a scam that she has run for a long time now! She needs to be put out of “business” and quite stealing peoples money..and KILLING our horses! It is a disgrace that she has been allowed to do this time and time again with these innocent horses. She prays on peoples emotions to get their money.
PS: She is also employing (and sleeping with) a convicted child molester who molested a child of 8 yrs old..and also had been convicted of torture and killing a cat! Do you want someone like that looking at your financial and private information when applying to adopt a horse? WHY HASN’T SHE BEEN INVESTIGATED AND SHUT DOWN YET?? ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!
July 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
It appears Emily is still helping horses. She has a blog and a post on wild mustangs. Thank you Emily for caring about the horses. emilymurdoch.wordpress.com is the address if anyone wants to read. I didn’t know about the mustangs. People just kill horses everywhere.
Kate B
August 14th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
CBER it seems is not out ou business. Seems that they just got a different name and new web page same old people running it tho.
September 6th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
i love how you show the picture of that brown horse. beutiful
October 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I rescued a filly through CBER and she is exactly as represented, the CBER people were fantastic, thoughtful and prompt in helping me with her. This organization is not what the detractors claim. I donate money to CBER with pride knowing what I’ve learned about their volunteers and what I’ve experienced personally in saving and adopting a great little horse. Just my two cents.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
I just wanted to input that yes, Cber saves “some” lives from going to slaughter…but what about those that are returned to the slaughter pipeline AFTER all of their funds have been paid? YES..it happens a lot more than we like to think! SAM is out for the money..nothing else. When times get tough financially for CBER, they ditch all the horses that are sponsored..that is not a rescue. Sam solely relies on funds that come in off ABR board, and other “suckers” who donate their funds to them..especially funds that are demanded for a month of care at HER farm..then the horse NEVER lasts the full 30 days as paid for. So, before everyone jumps me..do some research of what has really happened..and why SO MANY previous volunteers are soured by CBER and Sam..and why so many of them are willing to talk of the deaths that Sam caused for the horses…She is NOT a true rescue!
March 14th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Maybe it is time to sit down and look at the real issues. There will always be horse abuse and neglect and with the closure of the slaughter houses it has more then doubled. I am not a fan of slaughter as a matter of fact I have 4 old pensioners 3 cripples and two horses that no one wants to ride. However, I am in the very fortunate position to be able to afford feed, shoeing, vet care and pasture for them. Many people are not. So where do these unwanted horses go? Now they go to Mexico or Canada. So instead of saving these horses their suffering is simply prolonged. The Horse slaughter industry needed some work that is a given but it sure as hell beats riding in a cattle truck for 40 some hours or being starved to death or being turned loose on the highway to be hit by a semi. This is what the unwanted horses of the US are facing today. There will always be horses that people are unable to keep and by taking away the slaughter industry they are being driven to dire measures. Thirty emaciated horses were found in dry lot pens owned by a couple in Cody Wyoming that couldn’t afford to feed them. I know what a bunch of idiots for buying thirty horses but getting to the point which is if these horses could have been sold for slaughter they wouldn’t have sat there starving for months on end. There is always going to be that person who wants his/her last nickel out of old brownie, that we can not change. What we can change is old brownie breaking a leg in a cattle truck on his way to Mexico. It is time to change the US policy. We must have a way for these neglected unwanted horses to be slaughtered humanly.
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