Dog Owner Who Sent In Mixed Dog Food Sample To Expertox Responds

The person who sent in the mixed sample of dog food to Expertox, which was found to have acetaminophen in the sample, emailed us this response:

I picked up the bags on July 4th from my dealer, who is 100 miles away. Several of us here feed Canidae and make one big order every couple of months, and the dealer either meets us about 35 miles away or we go there, depending on everyone’s schedules.

My friend kept bugging me to test the foods I feed to be sure they were safe because of all the troubles with other foods, so I finally did. I sent 2 samples to be tested: one was a composite of Canidae Lamb/Rice (manufactured June 6th) and the original All Life Stages (manufactured June 7). The other was a composite of California Natural adult lamb/rice and puppy lamb/rice.

Originally the lab, reading composite on the order, combined samples form both bags and ran a composite of all 4 foods. That came back showing acetaminophen. They realized that I had ordered two tests of two different composites, redid the tests, one of Canidae and the other of California Natural. The CA Natural came back fine; the Canidae showed acetaminophen.

I contacted my dealer first, and she wanted to contact her rep. I told her I’d wait until the next day to call the Canidae main office. She was leaving for dog shows and evidently didn’t get hold of her rep, because Canidae began getting calls and e-mails before I had a chance to call them. I’m in daily contact with Canidae, gave them permission to send part of my sample for further testing. We’re also discussing my sending them an unopened bag from the same batch for more testing. Wish everybody would leave them alone and give them some peace so we can work on this.

109 Responses to “Dog Owner Who Sent In Mixed Dog Food Sample To Expertox Responds”

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  1. danielle says:

    Ok, at least now we have the back story. I’m still troubled by the fact that the lab apparently mixed two different samples that presumably were marked with different brands into one test. That doesn’t make any sense at all. Such a mistake doesn’t instill confidence in their testing procedures.

    But anyway, if they do find acetaminophen in the re-tests I hope to God that they can isolate it to the vitamin pre-mix and finally nail whoever is adding this to the vitamins. The response I’d like to see is not denial, but I hope Canidae instead sues the pants off the manufacturer of the vitamins and publicly attack them.

    My other thought is that if there is acetaminophen in the food, it must be in trace amounts if there are no reports of death. I read in one of the forums that a 50 lb dog would have to injest 7 500 mg. tablets to be fatal. At least we aren’t dealing with melamine/aminopterin/cyanuric acid which is much more dangerous in smaller amounts.

  2. straybaby says:

    danielle, i think the lab mistake is less troubling as they readily admitted it and re-tested. many people were sending in for combined tests because of the price factor. it’s no that far of a reach to think she wanted the samples tested as one and then sep if the combo came up positive. it would make sense to send them in sep by brand. she took away the first step by combining the formulas, which may have caused the lab some confusion since blended testing was requested. more troubling for me is the way the brands handle retesting . . .

  3. E. Hamilton says:

    People who are PAYING for the food AND PAYING for the testing, that should be done by the pet food companies in a way that can be trusted, REALLY do not deserve to be getting GRIEF for how it is being done.

    If someone has a problem with how the people footing the BILLS are getting something done, then they are welcome to test any pet food they like, at any lab they can find and PAY FOR IT THEMSELVES.

    If people want the food tested, making it nasty and painful and horrid for people to do a PUBLIC service is hardly the way to do that.

  4. nora says:

    I just want to vomit. This whole”Is it tainted- is it not “game has made me so crazed and paranoid of any commercial food, and Canidae was just about the only one I thought MIGHT be safe. Guess they all had us fooled. Twice BURNT. I have given up on ALL OF THEM. Even California Naturals……They are manufactured in the state where more euthanized companion animals than any other are taken by the barrels full from the vets offices and by the truckloads to the rendering plants to be ground up for pet food. Excuse me, while I go throw up.

  5. purringfur says:

    I can see blending the brands/flavors also. If the poisons are present in the mixed sample of, let’s say, four foods… Yes, then go ahead to test each individual brand/flavor to see which one(s) are poisonous. By combining different foods, you can test 4 or more foods with one payment. If all is negative, then you’ll know that those 4 foods are safe — just a way to save money if the findings come back negative. This owner said that a lot of people go in on a bulk buy.

  6. purringfur says:

    I’d never heard about the huge vitamin/supplement scandal until a few days ago. It also involved animal feed vitamin pre-mix.

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....nted=print

  7. danielle says:

    Ok, I guess that makes sense about the economy of testing (except when you have a positive result you are paying for two tests anyway, so why not be as precise as possible the first time). I apologize. But unlike E. Hamilton’s attack on me, I wasn’t criticizing the person PAYING for the food and PAYING for the test. I was criticizing the lab, who didn’t do what the person PAYING for the test even wanted when she requested the test. SHE ORDERED TWO TESTS. The lab screwed it up and combined them.

    I try to be civil to people on this board, and respect other people’s opinions even when I disagree. But others are not so respectful. Just because I am asking questions and commenting on this particular incident, the details of which have been less than clear from the beginning, I’ll probably be branded a troll now.

    I’m sorry, but I can barely afford to feed myself, let alone three dogs with medical issues, and I do the best I can to find a middle ground. I don’t see the point of home cooking which E. repeatedly states is the only way to keep my dogs safe, when I would have to supplement the food with vitamins from China which are probably the source of the poisonings.

    I’m done. Enjoy tearing me apart now.

  8. Roberto P. says:

    I also read on the forum that 7 extra strength tablets to a 50 lb dog would be fatal. But that doesn’t mean that 6 1/2 tablets are safe. This other website http://www.always-healthy-peop.....r-dog.html says “…Some canine care guides do indicate healthy adult dogs may be given up to 8 mg of acetaminophen per pound of body weight not more than once every 8 hours. Following that guideline, a 10 lb dog given up to 8mg. per pound of body weight would take NO more than 80mg which is just under 1/4 Regular Strength tablet only once every 8 hours.”

    So a 50 lb HEALTHY dog could safely take 400 mg every 8 hours. What happens between 400 mg and 3500 mg? Your dog gets sick! Liver and sometimes kidney damage.

    And I am curious about Felidae. Acetaminophen is highly toxic to cats.

  9. Lis says:

    I do find it interesting that Expertox, and only Expertox, keeps finding acetaminophen in high-end foods that people have switched to because of the melamine contamination. How is the acetaminophen getting in the food? The melamine had an obvious motivation: it’s way cheaper than using real wheat gluten. Who has a motive to add acetaminophen, a relatively expensive substance that doesn’t appear to mimic anything that should be in the food? Someone who wants to poison pets? Someone who wants to poison pets, AND has access to the different, separate facilities manufacturing Innova, Natural Balance, and Canidae?

    I say hoax–someone’s getting off on the spectacle of pet lovers going crazy trying to figure out what to feed pets.

  10. Lynn says:

    If this is indeed a hoax [and I am not saying it is] then there’s an easy way to prove it. But it will cost.

    I think Expertox has been involved with a lot of these findings simply because this was the lab [subcontracted by AccuTrace] that was most frequently named on the pet blogs during the pet food recall.

    If you decide to send identical samples to two different labs, make sure you know what their testing parameters are. And get the exact values found for any positive findings.

  11. catbird says:

    I can think of any number of ways that acetaminophen could get into vitamin supplements, either deliberately or by accident: Contaminated water(I’ve seen articles about how drugs are found in water supplies), cross-contamination in a plant that handles both supplements and acetaminophen and doesn’t clean equipment adequately between runs, human error, deliberate adulteration because acetaminophen is probably cheaper than some vitamins or supplements, etc., etc.

    I intend to keep an open mind.

  12. Anonymous says:

    danielle,

    BYE BYE!!!

  13. Roberto P. says:

    I googled acetaminophen (actual chemical name 4-acetamidophenol) and cyanuric acid (frequently used for NPN in animal feed, and to spike protein levels). Both are made in the same factory by chemical companies and acetaminophen powder is cheaper than cyanuric acid. Mix-up, money saver, unclean equipment? Acetaminophen is also cheaper than glucosamine. In the 70’s a toxin was “accidentally” substituted for a feed ingredient, and people are still suffering the consequences.
    http://www.everything2.com/ind.....=printable

  14. KimS says:

    I just hope Canidae does the right thing and looks into this seriously.
    Until there are answers, if you feel uncomfortable with using the food, just don’t use that food. It’s not rocket science.

  15. Jenny Bark says:

    Roberto P., Thanks for the link. Really good reading, makes one think. Thanks again.

  16. Trudy Jackson says:

    Jenny Bark, E, etc. can You all go back and read what I wrote on the purina incident? It’s on the page 2 now. I wrote the last 3 things. i wondered why no one answered? Now I know you were all over here. thanks,

  17. Louie W. says:

    Human activity creates tons of waste products and materials that are unfit for human consumption. Scraps from slaughter houses, spoiled/contaminated grain, tainted drugs, just to name a few.

    Unfortunately, pet food companies routinely use products that are not traceable to the original source, and they fail to perform adequate testing.

    Here are two recent examples of contaminated acetaminophen:

    Contaminated Anti-Fever Drug Kills at Least 30 Children in Haiti:
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f.....t%20Safety

    Huge Acetaminophen Recall Announced:
    http://www.medicinenet.com/scr.....ekey=77424

    Recently, food grade guar gum from India was found to be contaminated with dioxin:
    http://www.commodityonline.com.....hp?id=2511

    IMO, it’s not difficult to see how any number of toxins may continue to be found in pet food. The March recalls were just the tip of the iceberg.

  18. Pit Bull Lover says:

    Okay. I fold.

    Bunny the Pit Bull is getting “people food” indefinitely. *sigh* It will be no small task for me because I rarely cook for myself and am going to have to figure out what the heck I’m doing, what she requires, and how to get it all done — every day — without having to quit my job to make time to cook for the canine. Crap. I hate this world we live in.

    I guess I’d better get the food tested, also. (Alas, it’s a open bag — with different dates than the above tested sample — but at least I’ll know if I’ve been poisoning her or not.)

  19. Trudy Jackson says:

    Purringfur, Roberto and Louie, thanks for the Great links. I didn’t know about this stuff either.

  20. E. Hamilton says:

    There is only ONE lab in this country that WILL do the private testing so far as I know, so there is that and unless someone can find another AND PAY FOR THE TESTING then I do not think that attacking the person who went to the effort and PAID for it should get a lot of lip from people who are NOT doing this public service. I say nothing about any one by name but if the broom fits..?

    The pet food companies pulled one heck of a “hoax” with the “all the food is safe now” lie and pets are dying from THAT crap, so go spend some time giving the PFI and the pet food companies crap.

    NO PETS HAVE BEEN HARMED BY pet parents PAYING FROM THEIR OWN POCKETS FOR TESTING, and considering some of the plain bullcrap they have to wade through when they DO try to help others by posting the results, it is pretty clear what “some” posters are after.
    They want to DISCOURAGE testing. And who would want to do that?

  21. E. Hamilton says:

    Let me be clear on something.
    NO pet parent who has PAID for testing deserves the total PFI and troll like stuff that has gone on.
    That is as polite as I can be without mentioning the horse you rode in on and screen doors.

    If you can do it better, then by all means, Godspeed, good luck and don’t forget to SHARE the results of what you learn and get torn apart for it.
    Until you ARE doing it better, I aint all that impressed with what you think.
    And neither are a lot of other folks.

    It is BRAVE to get food tested_AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE_ for the benefit of people and their pets. It is beyond brave to face all the criticism and crap here and post the results.
    It is cowardly, base, slither on the ground like a rattlesnake COWARDLY to attack people who are doing a lot more to save pets than the lying pet food companies.

    If THIS is not clear, then there are remedial reading classes available.

  22. straybaby says:

    Pit Bull Lover says:
    September 7th, 2007 at 5:15 pm

    it’s not that hard and for one dog will not be that much more than buying premium food (may be the same). you can premix your own supplements with whole sources from the health food store and avoid china ;) for my 5 cats, i mix up a weeks worth of food at a time if not more. the dog i hand a raw body part to and she gets eggs, organs and yogurt with supplements dumped in. it takes a bit more time at first for the learning curve, but once you get it down, it’s NOT rocket science, it goes pretty fast. i cook for myself and prepare for my pets on the weekend if i’m up to my ears in work as usual.

    for meats, you can shop sales at the store or join a co-op.

    check in the forums in the home prepared section for any questions and reference material :)

    you will sleep better at night ;)

  23. 5CatMom says:

    Pit Bull Lover writes “Okay. I fold.”

    PBL, I came here many months ago as a skeptic - a skeptic with a dead cat.

    Didn’t take long to have an epiphany.

  24. Pit Bull Lover says:

    I need to informally poll you guys.

    I’ve carefully saved the food I was feeding when the recalls started (Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice dry), for the “someday” when I’d have the money/need/whatever to have it tested. Now I want to have the current bag of Canidae Lamb and Rice dry food tested and have never before considered combining foods for a test (to — potentially — save money) if I can’t find a state lab to do the analyses for free or a lot less.

    Combined or separate? (Unfortunately, cost *is* an issue…)

  25. Pit Bull Lover says:

    And am I the only one Itchmo.com is giving FITS today? I keep getting script errors and it’s so slow and I’m so frustrated, my head’s beginning to whistle like a teakettle.

  26. 5CatMom says:

    PBL,

    Sounds like you’re no longer using Nutro, and are now feeding Canidae?????

    If I were paying the bill, I’d test the Canidae.

  27. E. Hamilton says:

    Once a month, several friends get together and cook or prepare raw diet, as preferred for well over 20 individual pets. It is not only FUN and STRESS FREE but very reasonable in price, as easy to feed as the POISON and seems to make the pets happy . It does, for sure, make the pet parents sleep better at night.
    They simply are no longer concerned with whatever “taint O the Month” the pet food companies feel like tossing in the mix and that ALONE is priceless.

    I have attended these sessions that my friends have, last month, someone had to take care of family matters and the others did her part for her. One person does the same thing for her pets , once a month, with her husband and finds it something they LOOK FORWARD TO.

    These folks are not going to EVER start feeding a commercial pet food .
    Not with what they know now and all the PROOF they see every day , here on this website and others, about how underhanded and dishonest the PFI and the pet food companies are. Oh yeah, we send each other the posts made by the obvious trolls and laugh at how stupid it is to keep that crap up when the JIG IS UP!
    No new pet brought into those homes will ever eat POISON labeled as premium pet food.

    Hard to feed your pets with homemade food? No, what is hard is watching them die in agony because you didn’t.

    Everyone has to make their own choice.

  28. Rocky says:

    There’s a vet in town who’s a holistic vet. She has an arrangement with a retired lady who makes homecooked food to her (the vet’s) specifications.

    The vet does this so that she can have confidence in the food she precribes for her clients.

    It’s also a good for the retired lady who loves to cook.

    Best of all, pets benefit from truly healthful foods that aren’t contaminated with toxins.

  29. Ann H says:

    Worth Repeat 1000 times:

    [quote]E. Hamilton September 7th, 2007 at 6:49 pm

    Let me be clear on something.
    NO pet parent who has PAID for testing deserves the total PFI and troll like stuff that has gone on.
    That is as polite as I can be without mentioning the horse you rode in on and screen doors.

    If you can do it better, then by all means, Godspeed, good luck and don’t forget to SHARE the results of what you learn and get torn apart for it.
    Until you ARE doing it better, I aint all that impressed with what you think.
    And neither are a lot of other folks.

    It is BRAVE to get food tested_AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE_ for the benefit of people and their pets. It is beyond brave to face all the criticism and crap here and post the results.
    It is cowardly, base, slither on the ground like a rattlesnake COWARDLY to attack people who are doing a lot more to save pets than the lying pet food companies.

    If THIS is not clear, then there are remedial reading classes available.[/quote]

    Hopefully the pet food companies realize that forums and blogs can become armpits in dire need of washing.

    That will NOT stem the efforts to get the pet food industry regulated and pet food companies held accountable for the products they sell.

    To those of you who speak more nicely to pet food companies than you do fellow pet owners trying to keep their pets healthy, or spend more time enmeshed in mindless & hurtful gossip - re-read the above quote and and ask yourself if you a) want safer pet foods (regulations/laws/enforcement/pet food company due diligence) or if you b) would rather risk your animals while you waste time conjuring dissent.

    Those who want a) will most likely go to private forums and leave those , who prefer the drama of b , stranded & mucking around not knowing what is happening or what tests have been run while you wallow in sludge of your own creation.

  30. Trudy Jackson says:

    Pitt Bull Lover, that’s a good question. I still have the Beneful dog food here, and wish I could have it tested some day.
    I guess You might want to go with what you are going to be feeding?

  31. Cathy says:

    Pit Bull Lover, My guy died - Nutro Lamb and Rice. I gave the rest of the bag to my vet - his dog got sick. He threw the food away, but gave me the label. Do you have the codes from the bag you still have?

    On another note, I have been reading Dr. Pitcarin’s Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats. Even though I don’t have a pet right now, when I’m ready, I want to know how to feed it right this time. What an eyeopener. I cried all the way through Chapter 2. It told me just how I poisoned my dog. This man wrote the original of this book years ago. What’s happening today with pet food has been going on for years - it’s just getting worse. Good read for anyone who wants to home cook, but is afraid they won’t get it right.

  32. Pit Bull Lover says:

    I have to admit, I’ve felt some guilt over not cooking Bunny’s food since the week the recalls started, so this will at least get *that* weight off my shoulders. I recently got Dr. Pitcairn’s book from my library, so that’s where I’ll start — then off to the grocery store I go. You know what’s funny? I won’t feel especially betrayed by Canidae even if the (possible) acetaminophen contamination is widespread, because my “trust” in any commercial food and manufacturer would be, and was, tentative. The System revealed itself to be a rotting house of cards back in March, so another scare — and a final decision to prepare my dog’s food with my own hands — was inevitable.

    5CatMom, I fed Nutro for years until the first recalls, then I immediately stopped feeding it even though that particular type was not recalled. I dropped Nutro products and ruled out several other companies’ products because they were somehow — and it didn’t matter how minor the relationship — were affiliated with Menu Foods. It’s worth noting that Bunny had had some recurring health problems that I never suspected could be caused by her food — at least not until the recalls began and I switched to Canidae — then every one of her gastrointestinal symptoms, the marked lethargy, and her reluctance to eat, immediately disappeared. The decision to go with Canidae was the result of days of worry and compulsive research but, like I said before (above), this moment was inevitable. Really. It was just a matter of time.

  33. Pit Bull Lover says:

    Cathy, yes I have a large sample (6-8 cups) double freezer-bagged — along with UPC, ingredient list, and manufacturing codes — in my refrigerator. I’m sorry your boy died…and realize how lucky I am that my girl is still with me.

  34. E. Hamilton says:

    Pit Bull Lover says:
    September 7th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    I wish I had known in time to save my pets, you will never know how much I wish that, and you are entirely correct, it IS a matter of time, you are going to have the time with your Bunny that a lot of us won’t have with our much missed pets.

    And time that others are going to give away, along with money and worry and sickness and unbearable sorrow when they think trusting a pet food company is the QUICK way to feed their pets. It is not going to save a dime and it will cost far more than they imagine.
    Stephen King could not write this horror story.

    You won’t regret the choice and take my word for it, the last 6 months have taught me a lot about regret.

  35. Cathy says:

    Pit Bull Lover, Just a stretch here. These are codes from my label. Any chance your label is the same?

    UPC 79105 21102

    Under Made in USA - 60334-02

    best if used by: 27 JAN 2007
    B1:06 2CR4 JP

  36. kb says:

    Bad words, bad words, bad words. I thought we had been spared with half raw, half Canidae. But until the source of the acetaminophen is determined is adding any vitamins to the raw safe? What if Canidae says they can’t find any acetaminophen like happened to Don?

  37. Trudy Jackson says:

    I was telling Jenny Bark and a few others on another topic- My friend bought a bag of Purina Sensitive stomach for Her cats. They all threw up all day. she got rid of the food, but this sounds like it’s starting all over again. It came from Wal Mart.

  38. Cathy says:

    No WalMart, No Kroger, No Processed Crap Food. Trudy, what is your friend doing? I guess she’s not listening. Some of my friends aren’t listening either.

  39. Trudy Jackson says:

    I know. I keep trying to tell Her. But She is so far away from anything.
    We just have to keep trying.

  40. Pit Bull Lover says:

    Cathy, I’m sorry, it’s not an exact match.

    Nutro Natural Choice Lamb Meal & Rice Formula - 40 lb. bag
    UPC 79105 20102
    Under “Made in USA” - NCAD40-01
    Best if used by: 31 May 2008
    12:51 2BG4 JP

    FWIW, Bunny’s symptoms *were* worse in October/November/December 2006 and January 2007, when I was feeding her Nutro from batches/bags that are now long gone.

    straybaby, thanks for the encouragement. Oh, I can’t bear the thought of serving up a raw limb of some sort, followed by a gizzard or other organ. Ay! :P Maybe I’ll discover some basic meals that can be modified for dog and human.

    And fearless E., I hope you know I’ve never forgotten the day you wrote about your Catahoula, the sweet tree, and the job she was sent ahead to do. And later, when your fourth and last kitty was near the end, you wrote “and now I have no more pets.” I know I’m damned lucky, and I figure it’s felt to you like those of us who continued to buy “premium” commercial pet food were working against you. I’m sorry for that, also. My current perspective can best be summed up by a line from The Godfather, when Michael Corleone leans over the hospital bed of his critically injured father, Don Corleone, and says “I’m with you now…”

  41. Jenny Bark says:

    Pit Bull Lover, everybody is telling you the truth, you will sleep better at night. In a couple of weeks cooking will start feeling like you always did it for her. It sounds like you are going to home cook instead of raw, I believe either is ok. I use the same book as Cathy but I also use his other book “Home-prepared Dog & Cat Diets” paperback is about $10.00 at Amazon. I like it a lot.

    I don’t know about you but when I grew up our pets where feed from the table & they lived a long life & we could not afford much vet care. Now I, like everybody else take our babies to the vet all the time & their life & qualty isn’t near as long or good, imo. Just something to think about when you get scared like the rest of us did at first that you arn’t doing good enough. Imo anything you ddo is one He!! of a lot better than whatever you are feeding. Good Luck.

  42. straybaby says:

    kb says:
    September 7th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    kb. you can make your own supplement mix with whole food sources from the health food store. look at pitcarin and others for supplement mixes. or you can join something like K9Nutrition@yahoogroups.com

    some raw lists are against supplementing, but many people prefer to. i have been ordering some things online as it’s easier to check them out vs in the store. i know what’s available around me, so i try and stick to those so i have an immediate source in the future. i ordered nutritional yeast, dried whole egg and a few other things in bulk and have them stashed in the freezer. i also read what’s in some of the supplement mixes specifically made for raw diets. i try and buy large amounts of what will keep in the cupboard or freezer just in case . . . lol!~ me paranoid?!

  43. kb says:

    Pitbull Lover, just a couple of less squimish ideas for raw - preground raw diet such as Bravo, just like handling ground beef, or Honest Kitchen, a dehydrated raw diet. Just add hot water. Smells delicious.

  44. Jenny Bark says:

    E. I’m so glad you are posting. I don’t know what state you live in but I would really like to take you out to dinner at a place of your choice.

  45. straybaby says:

    “Maybe I’ll discover some basic meals that can be modified for dog and human.”

    pull out the crock pot! we share stews and many other lovely things like egg dishes, meatball dishes, fruits, pasta salads and the list goes on. every meal doesn’t have to be 100% balanced and complete. you want an overall balanced and complete diet. i rotate meats, fish types etc. for all the pets and myself. kinda like feeding a healthy diet to a human family. also kinda like the old days! LOL!~ back when i fed canned to the cats, i always rotated the food/flavors. vets have started suggesting it over the past few years to help with a balanced diet and other reasons.

    btw, do ya think we all need to start sending mr fda who can’t home cook the glowing reports are pets get from the vet?! hehehehe . ..

  46. kb says:

    Straybaby,
    Thanks! I just ordered the Pitcarin book and have an appointment with a holistic vet mid October, takes that long to get in. I’ll check out the yahoo group, too. And what could possibly make us paranoid?

  47. straybaby says:

    i think pitcarin cooks, but you can use the same model for raw. there’s another book called the ultemit diet that also has a good food/supplement plan to follow. it’s got meal schedules mapped out so you can get an idea of feeding raw over a week/month. i used it to help wrap my head around everything. you can drive yourself nuts researching until you hit overload. this was simple to follow, even if you don’t use the exact diet, for balancing and variety.

    http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=cdn177

  48. straybaby says:

    i should add, that i also have 2 editions of the pitcarin book and use it! didn’t want to make it sound like i didn’t! and now i’m trying to remember if he cooks or it’s strombeck. OY! very tired here . . .

  49. Pit Bull Lover says:

    Hey, I just discovered *another* library book I’d checked out and forgotten about: Food Pets Die For by Ann N. Martin. Good thing, because I really don’t want to feed any raw meat to the dog, and Pitcairn appears to be pro-raw. (I’ve had a lot on my plate — har! har! — lately, but maybe will find time soon to post in the forums and hash out — lol! — the reasons I’m reluctant to feed raw meat to my beloved canine.)

  50. kb says:

    I just found an interesting website, www.nasc.cc, National Animal Supplement Council. I haven’t had time to look at it in detail yet.
    PBL - love bad puns!

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