To say I’ve committed animal sacrifice is just plain stupid.

My point in saying this may have had to do with poverty and hunger and stupidity was just that: We don’t know the status of those men. Were they illegals? If so, it is possible they were not being paid a living wage. We just. Don’t. Know.

I do not condone animal sacrifice. I do not practice it. I was simply pointing out that to generalize like you have about Voodoo/Santeria practitioners is wrong.

If you were so sure you were right, you wouldn’t be hiding as “Anonymous,” now, would you?

Personally, I think these guys were just plain crazy and had no compassion.

~The Lioness

Under proper circumstances, there ARE people who regulate these practices. Not only that, but traditionally, only Priests/Priestesses are authorized to do it. (This applies to formal “houses.” There are a lot of unscrupulous people out there–uneducated as well.)

I do know that chickens are commonly sacrificed. I do not know for sure what other animals are used and under what circumstances, however. I CAN tell you that–in the case of the practitioners with whom I’m acquainted–the animal then becomes the ritual meal.

I choose to speak out about these things–with my limited knowledge–because Paganism/Wicca and Voodoo/Santeria get commonly lambasted/badmouthed, and it’s most often done by the people who are least educated. (I throw those in together with the Voodoo/Santeria, because the people with whom I am acquainted may practice a number of different, non-book religions.)

Please. Can we leave religion out of these discussions? This abduction probably had more to do with poverty, hunger, and/or being stupid human beings than anything else.

If people ARE going to talk about these subjects, I would ask that they educate themselves first.

Thank you.
~The Lioness

They are sick sick sick and a danger to society.

I am in no way excusing what they did…but leaving a dog unattended in ANY public place is simply stupid. There sadly is NO safe place anymore….shootings and other horrible deeds are in the news everyday…schoold…churches…and yes private golf clubs.

The people next door to where I lived id not spay their dog because ’she has puppies that fit perfectly in a small baking pan’. Yes, I found the plight of animals there to be awful, but at the same time there was hardly any violence against people there. (The violence thing has changed, but sadly the animal misery has not.)

The torture part of this story is disturbing and if true then the books then the men deserve the charges. If it’s not true then they need to be charged with stealing and then educated on the culture they are living in. We people in the US don’t eat cats, dogs or equines. Other cultures do.

Imagine if you went to India and found yourself in jail for eating a cow you thought you had the right to eat.

So give it a rest in the name of cultural diversity. Focus on the theft and the torture (if there was any). I’d expect a better balanced report from people in Hawaii. Hawaiian natives once had a dog whose sole reason for existence was to get fat and be eaten. It’s extinct now … and so are most of the pure Hawaiian natives. Hawaiian is a mix of many, many cultures and people and has lots of workers, visitors, and tourists from many parts of the world and many of the laborers come places where dog is routinely eaten.

“Stefani, you’re splitting hairs…what Italy needs is some education on how to manage the feral cat population with TNR…mass killing American style is still not the answer.”

I agree that mass killing American style is not the answer, but that doesn’t take away the fact that I saw great insensitivity to suffering of cats and dogs there.

Re:
“And that’s Naples…Southern Italy is known for not being as forward thinking and enlightened as northern Italy and the rest of Europe (Spain is terrible too).”

If Spain is terrible too, then we cannot make the blanket statement that Europe is more enlightened.

Re” You know darn well that in general, cats and dogs have it better in most parts of western Europe”

I actually don’t know that darned well. I know what I saw when I was there, that’s all I know. When I went to France, I saw that the DOGS were treated like royalty, but did not see the same kind of treatment for cats. Just because their LAWS are more progressive, does not mean that their cultures are more progressive.

Apparently, from your statements, there is GREAT disparity within Europe itself. I take it from your comments that SOME parts of Western and Northern Europe are among the most progressive in terms of laws, however, I only know what I have seen with my own eyes when I was there. So please don’t assume that I “know something darned well” when a) I don’t, and b) even your own post indicates that some of Europe is more evolved while other parts of Europe are not. So let’s agree on both sides not paint all of Europe with one brushstroke.

I am aware — from reading — that scandinavia is among the most progressive, and this makes me happy since I am nearly half descended from scandinavia. But I haven’t seen that same evolved treatment everywhere on my own, albeit limited, forays to Europe (France, both South and North, and Italy, primary south)

I am questioning whether or not they specifically stole this dog in order to eat it. If that was the intent, why did they need to torture it as well?

Of course, stealing the dog to eat it is also AWFUL, but let’s not even assume that these men are just hungry and looking for someone to eat. They are obviously twisted sadists, not just hungry people whose cultural background is different than our own.

I really would like to be the judge responsible for sentencing on this case. I would put them away as long as possible.

Oh, and re: Europe. Not all parts of Europe are that advanced in their treatment of animals. In Naples, Italy, cats are primarily considered street animals, and live filthy desparate lives (because Naples is filthy, and apparently gotten worse since I was last there in 2000, when I rescued some poor street kittens). The Napolitans I talked to did NOT believe in spaying and neutering. EVERY cat I saw on the street was diseased and malnourished, and none of hte locals seemed that interested in helping them (except for the poor little man living in a shack, obviously unbelievably poor himself, who was feeding the colony pasta with tomato sauce. He didn’t know any better, but the diet wasn’t helping things, since cats need meat, which he clearly either couldn’t afford, or couldn’t afford to spare). There were packs of wild dogs, too.

So, I don’t know how much they respected the innocent life all around them there. The conditions were breaking my heart. While I was there one young cat died crawling in a trash dump, impaled on some sharp object or broken glass.

Not impressive at all. Cats have it much better in the US.

Stefani