FDA Says No Pain Killer In Pet Food
The FDA says their own tests did not turn up any acetaminophen in pet food. However, the FDA did not test the same samples as ExperTox.
“My bottom line is I’m pretty confident in the FDA’s findings,” said Dr. Steven Hansen, lead veterinary toxicologist with the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals’ animal poison control center. “Acetaminophen is not hard to find.”
The FDA found no trace of the medication in five samples of one type of cat and two dog foods it tested in the past week, said spokesman Mike Herndon.
“At this point, FDA sees no compelling need to analyze any more samples for acetaminophen,” he said.
ExperTox Inc., in Deer Park, Texas, found varying levels of acetaminophen — which is toxic to pets, especially cats — in up to a dozen samples, lab operations manager Donna Coneley said Monday. She did not return calls yesterday seeking comment on the FDA’s findings.
It is not clear, however, whether the agency tested the type of food in which ExperTox said it found the highest level of acetaminophen. That sample had been submitted by the manufacturer, according to Coneley. FDA officials did not contact ExperTox until yesterday.
Agency and lab officials are reviewing scientific data, said Julie Zawisza, assistant commissioner of public affairs for the FDA.
“We cannot validate their findings,” she said. “… If they give us something new, we’ll look into it.”
A third lab hired by a pet food company and a university lab hired by a consumer could not verify ExperTox’s findings, Zawisza said.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
yeah…like the FDA has any credibility left…..
there’s a new grassroots Pet Food Safety Group that just held their first
protest rally this past weekend….check it out.
http://www.defendourpets.org/
http://network.bestfriends.org.....15990.html
June 13th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
The FDA also DID NOT “FIND” AMINOPTERIN. DID THEY EVEN LOOK? Or did they find it and decide to keep it quiet?
Below, dated March 30, is from a safety website, which you may want to look at for recalls in general:
“Jessica A Chittenden, a spokeswoman for the New York State Department
of Agriculture and Markets, said “We don’t think this is the final
conclusion. Melamine is not a known toxin. There’s not enough data to
show that it is toxic to cats.”
She added: “We are confident we found Aminopterin, and it makes sense
with the pathology.” She also said another laboratory, Animal Health
Laboratory at the University of Guelph in Canada, had confirmed the
presence of Aminopterin in the samples.
But the FDA said they had been unable to find Aminopterin in the pet
food samples it had tested. Researchers at Cornell said they were
also unable to find any evidence of the rat poison.
“We believe the laboratories involved in this investigation should
continue to maintain an open forum to definitively identify the one
or more agents that are causing the deaths and illnesses of cats and
dogs so that they do not enter the animal or human food chain in the
future,” said Patrick Hooker, the agricultural commissioner for the
state of New York.
Though Dr. Sundlof said he was not certain melamine was the chemical
causing illness in dogs and cats, “at this point in the
investigation, we are not focusing on Aminopterin.”
FDA officials announced they had received more than 8000 complaints
from pet owners with sick pets, but they have not yet had “the luxury
of time” to confirm all of those complaints are linked to tainted pet
food.
Officials did acknowledge, however, that many of the complaints were
from owners who only fed their pets dry food.”
http://list.uvm.edu/cgi-bin/wa.....&P=723
…………………..
And even though these contaminants/poisons are in there, we are NOT focusing on them…
And, I don’t think the FDA CAN go back to the manufacturing plants to test foods for yet-to-be-identified poisons (by design so they can call the pet food contamination “solved” or “contained”???) because the plant representatives and the FDA officials went to local landfills together to dispose of the tainted pet food. They slit the bags, signed certificates of destruction, and videotaped the acts. I got this info straight from a person in QC from a pet food manufacturing plant.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
My first line should have read “acetaminophen,” instead of aminopterin. My example from March 30 is to show the FDA also did NOT “find” aminopterin, so — using just about the same words — they will not focus on it.
I guess all the labs are wrong if the results don’t agree with what the FDA deems appropriate to release about what poisons are in the foods - no aminopterin - as found by the VERY lab U.S. Homeland Security designated to monitor our food and animal feed supply for contamination by terrorists after the 9-11 attacks. Does anyone think this lab was wrong?
I guess the other accredited labs are also wrong with their findings of acetaminophen as well.
How long does the FDA think it can go on “discrediting” labs by discounting their findings? Does the FDA really think the public believes what they say?
Unless the finding is a contaminant the FDA thinks is less frightening for the public to hear, the result will be discounted. There’s much more to the story than melamine and cyanuric acid combined with urine that killed the pets! Let’s hear it!
You can bet all of these poisons are in the human food as well, not just in the animal feeds for chickens, pigs, and fish, which we in turn consume. Don’t think that food companies have not used portions of these shipments directly into food processing, and it’s being kept quiet to protect big business and U.S. trade. Who could connect a death here and a death there? Wasn’t there a shipment stored in a Pennsylvania warehouse that was supposed to go to DEL MONTE FOODS?
Anyone been to the doctor lately for blood and urine tests? Anyone have an ultrasound to check the size of your kidneys?
June 13th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
South Africa: 40% of Rainbow Trout Fry Die: Due to Melamine?
Asking for subscriber comments.
“Mortalities began in one tank 11 days after the fish were moved to
the nursery. The other tanks were affected within 3 days of the 1st.
The fish were moved to ongrowing tanks approximately a month later,
where they are on 100 percent stream water. Mortalities continued
throughout, worsening whenever the fish were stressed or when feeding
was increased. Water temperatures were around 15 degrees C or 59
degrees F.
Mortalities tended to be fairly constant and low level, generally
under 1 percent per day. Cumulative mortalities eventually reached 40
percent. On the 4th day after mortalities 1st began, the fish were
treated with Chloramine T. This was repeated 2 days after they were
moved to ongrowing tanks. The treatment appeared to exacerbate the
mortalities. No other treatments were given.
The fish show few clinical signs before dying. They are very pale and
their heads, from about the level of the eyes forwards, appear
transparent. The abdomens tend to be slightly swollen and digestion
seems retarded, as fish retain feed in the gut for up to 2 days of
starvation.
Postmortem examination showed overall pallor, especially of the
liver. Wet preparations of gills, skin, cartilage and gut were
negative for parasites. Bacterial culture of kidney yielded no growth
and there was in any case nothing to suggest bacterial infection. In
February [2007], viral isolation was also attempted and nothing
found. Histological examination was unremarkable. A mild nephrosis
with some eosinophilic material in the renal tubules was seen. This
material was in the form of fragments or strands, not homogenous.
Mild enteritis was seen. The liver was very fatty. Bloodsmears showed
a fair number of red blood cells with nuclei that appeared to be
dividing.”
http://www.promedmail.org/pls/.....1000,37936
June 13th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
FDA Likely Wrong About Wheat Gluten As Sole Source Of Pet Food Poisoning
http://www.medicalnewstoday.co.....wsid=67034
FDA wrong on Sargento cheese test
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - August 30, 2001
http://www.bizjournals.com/mil.....ily27.html
Remember how the FDA said there was “no evidence” that Chinese toothpaste tainted with diethylene glycol had made it to the U.S.? That was wrong.
http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/fda/
NAS Methylmercury Report Shows FDA Failed to Protect Consumers from Unsafe Seafood
Statement of Caroline Smith DeWaal, food safety director Center for Science in the Public Interest
http://www.cspinet.org/new/unsafe_seafood.html
Published on Tuesday, January 7, 2003 by the Washington Post
FDA Policies for Gene-Altered Foods Faulted in Report
by Justin Gillis
http://www.commondreams.org/he.....107-05.htm
http://www.ewg.org/reports/fruit/Chapter2.html
June 13th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Note to FDA:
So what happened to the 11 million bottles of acetaminophen that was recalled last November?
Yes, I know the FDA doesn’t control what happens to recalled products, and the affected companies are free to do what ever improves their bottom line.
But I was just wondering.
Any chance all that acetaminophen was ground up and recycled into pet food?
http://www.insurancejournal.co...../74206.htm
June 13th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
At this point, what would SHOCK me is if the FDA was RIGHT about something.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
I think the report said the FDA tested food SUPPLIED by manufacturers.
At this point I think manufacturers have cans of all varieties that they know are going to clear testing and when needed they just stick the label on it. Printing is easy!
Some think that the manufacturers are dishonest; others say they are incompetent. They are both. There are a few good ones, but they will be the standouts still with brand intergety after this is over.
I WANT THE FDA TO TEST PET FOOD FROM OFF THE GROCERY SHELVES FROM LOCATIONS NOT DISCLOSED TO MANUFACTURER TILL AFTER THE TESTING HAS BEEN COMPLETED!
This is the only tryly honest way to get a fully unquestionable result.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
This is getting more crazy by the day. what in the Hell is going on? Who can We trust, who is going to let us know what other food is contaminated? No one is telling the truth and why not? this is after 9/11. We are supposed to be prepard for anything [RIGHT] We are not prepared for anything. It really is scarey when you can trust no one, not the Gov., not the FDA, not the PFI. We are definately on our own. And We better watch our backs, i guess.
June 13th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Some folks (like Itchmo) need to call Hill’s CS about acetaminophen & cyanuric acid and get the PR spill and the mention about some guy and what he posted…(keep in mind that they *all* got out of a meeting at 12:30 cst)
June 13th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Typical FDA - Save the PFI at all costs, they have lost so much $$ already and we must think of their stockholders first, yada, yada..
Kinda like the cow that tested positive, then retested negative at the Main gov’t lab to over rule, then a truly concerned agent sent it for the proper test and it was positive.. well, what do ya know and how about that? No comment from FDA, except oops, we goofed…
Creditability scale =zero
Give me private testing, where no conflict of interest occurs and no one takes the “big bad buck” over truth and safety…
June 13th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Good story
http://tinyurl.com/yozure
Please leave positive feedback for the editor, bottom of the story , so we can help this person keep writing the news!
June 13th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
Great news everyone!
Menu Foods stock is trading at $2.39 (Can). That’s down from yesterday’s close of $3.05 (Can). Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe Menu’s remaining customers have FINALLY gotten the message that “Menu is OFF the menu”.
June 13th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
E,
that was a good article and I did write:
Dear Sirs,
I am responding to
B.J. Darnell: Some days you’re the dog, some days you’re the hydrant
Animal notes: Published June 13, 2007
This was an excellent article; one that is being frequently ignored in the press and tv and radio media. I especially appreciated the way she calls for our illustrious commander-in-cheif to pay attention to what is going on at home.
All to often, if the pet food debacle is mentioned at all, most still hang on to the 16 dead cats and dogs, which “at this time” is just ludicrous.
I’d like to thank both Linda Darnell for writing the article and your paper for publishing it. My guess is that most people that haven’t been following the blogs are unaware of what is really going on with not only their pets foods but their own.
Very truly yours,
A grateful reader,
Debbie
June 13th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Debbie4747 Says:
June 13th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Thank you ! Thank you.
We gotta be good to our friends and NO MERCY for the enemy.
I cannot believe I just typed that! Just a few months ago I was a semi-sweet old lady growing orchids and african violets and picking out wallpaper, my only enemy was spider mites!
Well, I have no mercy for the mites either so I guess it will all work out, do you think if we spray neem oil on the PFI they will go away?
June 13th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
The FDA and the Bush administration are liars. If they said the sky was blue I would go outside to see if it was green.
June 13th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Like the American public is going to get the Truth from these losers?
Right, sure we are.
June 13th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
I think basically it’s a lost cause trying to deal with this in any way other than home cooked pet foods - each turn is like running 90 miles into a brick wall.
They’ve got the bucks to get any answer they want from any lab or government agency, pet food company and apparently the ASPCA.
I’ll get receipes from my vet friday
June 13th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
The AVMA has a list of products that were removed from the recall list. Does anyone know why this happened? (AVMA says contact the manufacturer.)
http://www.avma.org/aa/petfood.....emoved.asp
June 13th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Menu Foods Samples Test Positive for Painkiller
ConsumerAffairs.Com
June 13, 2007
http://www.consumeraffairs.com.....all57.html
“ConsumerAffairs.com contacted the manufacturer of the confirmed pet food that tested positive for acetaminophen — Menu Foods of Canada. That company makes Pet Pride food.
“A spokeswoman for Menu Food said the company had no comment on ExperTox’s findings. But spokeswoman Sarah Tuite told us: “The Pet Food Institute (PFI) has provided comment.â€
“That organization represents the makers of 98 percent of all dog and cat food produced in the United States, and calls itself “the voice of U.S. pet food manufacturers.â€
““I can assure you that this industry takes the issue of the safety of pet food products with the utmost seriousness,†PFI’s spokesman Kurt Gallagher said Tuesday.
“Gallagher said his industry and the FDA are investigating ExperTox’s findings. But he cast doubts about the laboratory — and its test results.
““Through our contacts in Texas, which is where the lab is located that conducted the analysis, we have learned there is genuine concern among key toxicological and analytical experts about the lab and the actual test results,†Gallagher said.
“Expertox’s Donna Coneley also said she doesn’t have any idea what Texas experts Gallagher and PFI are talking about.
““They never name the experts they’re working with,†Coneley said. “When someone says ‘people I know say this,’ it sounds to me like they’re trying to say there are experts who have looked into this and don’t agree with the findings. But I don’t believe there are.
““To me, it sounds like they’re talking about imaginary experts,†Coneley said.
“Coneley said the only experts her lab has worked with about the findings are those with the FDA. In fact, she told us she had the FDA on another line during our interview today.
““The pet food manufacturing companies have had ten-minute discussions with us about how we did our tests,†she said. “But they’re not experts.
““The (scientists at the) FDA are the only people we’ve been talking to about our findings.â€
Nothing more despicable than liars hiding behind other liars. Duane-o has apparently chosen to be cowardly and get out of the kitchen because the heat’s on; he couldn’t put his SmithBucklin PFI hat on today because his head is in its usual position–stuck up his rear. And now you know why he and PFI can’t see one D@@N thing.
Hope SmithBucklin, Duane-o and all the PZI zombies are taking up a collection or using payroll deductions to buy those MF stocks. You’ll need it to corporately survive and they’re the only ones who might be idiotic enough to do it.
FYI–the net is still full of material yet to be posted re: these folks…..
June 13th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Some of these “experts” couldn’t find acetaminophen in a bottle of Tylenol.
June 13th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
So now they’re going to malign the labs by spreading rumors. That absolutely nauseates me. This lab is acceptable for court cases including criminal court, but they’re wrong about pet food. I loathe this organization. They and MF can rot in hell. Tell me who those experts are. I want to see the proof.
June 13th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
All right people, Do you WANT the pet food tested? DO YOU?
We CAN, no begging involved.
I am setting up a cafepress site and we will sell all the t-shirts we can. And whatever other stuff they sell.
EVERY dime goes to Ben here at itchmo for testing the foods. EVERY PENNY GOES TO TESTING, unless Ben does a runner with the money, which I consider as unlikely as..well.. the FDA telling the truth.
YOUR part is to help come up with the slogans and then, of course, pay for some t-shirts.
You *KNOW* you want a pair of panties with PFI on the butt!
(they do NOT own the alphabet)
It is a win-win because the food gets tested and you get shirts that will make people talk to you about this tragedy! Who you show the panties to? Entirely your business.
Here is what I got, Sandi K I stole an idea from your post above.
I TRUSTED THE PFI AND ALL I GOT WAS A
DEAD CAT!
Menu Foods made me an hysterical Ex-Pet parent
Ask me about my dead pets!
THE LIE MUST DIE!
Thousands died to save YOUR pet.
I LOVED my Canary!
50% Lethal ON SALE NOW
AT A MARKET NEAR YOU
LethalDose50 Pet Food
Made my pets 100% dead!
Melachicken, it’s crispy
and FDA approved!
You get the drift, if you can do any design work, get to it and get it to me. Forums, itchmo , Alice Army thread.
BRING ON THE SNARK- I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT!
June 13th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
I’m reposting this. It’s from the PFI’s very own web site.
“PFI is dedicated to:
Promoting the overall care and well-being of pets.
Supporting initiatives to advance the quality of dog and cat food.
Supporting research in pet nutrition and the important role of pets in our society.
Informing and educating the public on pet proper feeding and pet care.
Representing the pet food industry before Federal and State governments.”
June 13th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
““I can assure you that this industry takes the issue of the safety of pet food products with the utmost seriousness,†PFI’s spokesman Kurt Gallagher said Tuesday. ”
SCREECH!
oh, yes, right.
June 13th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
We’re goin’ down. Down down down down down.
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/224911
June 13th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Susan,
I agree. And, I find it worriesome that the lab in Texas is facing the rumor mill and inuendo of not being a good tox lab. Seems to be the same thing that happens to any one lately who bucks the system or questions our gov’ts decisions.
I would like the FDA to report the list of foods and lot#’s they had tested and the method used. I would like to see five independent labs test the samples. Than, I would like to see many back samples tested by the same labs - all of which were presented to the FDA in blank bags - only identified as A,B,C so there could be no skewing of results or pressure by companies or the FDA.
Having worked in hospital medical labs, and involved in quality assurance programs; I can not believe how our FDA conducts itself - in the “real world” they would get an F-, be closed down until they could prove capability and only than on probationary status.
Katie
June 13th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Let’s start here with the Texas Connection:
http://www.petfoodreport.com/commission.htm
Pet Food Institute Establishes
National Pet Food Commission
“Dr. E. Murl Bailey, Jr., D.V.M., Ph.D, Texas A&M University”
And let’s read part of an interview he gave KTRK-TV, Houston, ABC-13 on March 27, 2007:
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/st.....id=5156966
“A toxicology expert at Texas A&M School of Veterinary Medicine isn’t convinced researchers have come up with the last of the pet food poison puzzle. There’ve been other cases of pet food contamination in recent years, including a fungus found in dry dog food some three years ago. That was quickly identified. This, though, is taking longer because in several ways, it may be an imported problem.
“”There’s no magic bullet that’s going to save the animal,” said Dr. Murl Bailey, veterinary toxicologist with Texas A&M. “No antidote, no antidote we know of.”
“That is the one thing of which Dr. Bailey is sure. So much else about the tainted pet food recall is conjecture. At this point, the poison believed to be aminopterin, he says, is not an absolute.
“”It hasn’t been proved and even the veterinarians at Cornell, where they first identified this, are not completely sure,” said Dr. Bailey.
“”I think we’re looking at the tip of the iceberg, in terms of number cases,” said Dr. Bailey.
“At the very least, it should make animal owners question what they’re feeding to their pets and if labels accurately reflect ingredients and where they’re from. More than that, Dr. Bailey says…
“I think there should be a level of concern on the part of regulators,” he said. “Human and animals.” ”
Not exactly the PFI line, is it?
June 13th, 2007 at 6:03 pm
steve-
did you note how that article in the star refers to
“several’ cats and dogs dying.
several? isn’t that when there’s ,oh 2 or 3? most people do not even use ’several’ when refering to a quantity of 16…
June 13th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Katie — You are so right. I also used to work in medical labs before I switched to vet labs. I was under the impression that this was a CAP lab and from my own experience, that is an extremely difficult certification to get. Cornell University uses the New York State lab that originally gave the Aminopterin results. The FDA closed those results right down, too. And even though they work for the American taxpayer, they hide the science from us as if they’re the CIA.
June 13th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
I’m singing along with Steve…
My beloved mother always said “what goes around, comes around” I’m glad she’s not here to see what has happened to my little kitties that she loved so much. They often were the only company she had day after day as she was home alone. Looks like MF is “crashing” much like the pets did!
June 13th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Yeah I saw it. Next thing they’ll be saying. . . “No pets died. Those bloggers made all that stuff up.”
So Duane. You do realize that ever pet owner in the United States of America is now aware of all the shenanigans don’t you?
Or hasn’t that quite sunk in yet?
Think about it. Think hard now.
June 13th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Steve…he’s going to be thinking about it all the way to the bank…
June 13th, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Or should I say while he’s crying all the way from the bank
June 13th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Why, by gum, Steve, safety is so important, PFI has a website for consumers:
http://www.petfoodreport.com/commission.htm
Their Key Facts link says that 99% of PF is unaffected by the recall, their Homemade Pet Food link says there are HUNDREDS of pet foods not affected by the recalls and are safe choices. The What We Know page’s last update was May 14, 2007.
And none of these D**N links work at all on the site:
http://www.petfoodreport.com/w.....ngredients
http://www.petfoodreport.com/ingredients
Ingredients
Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.
Apache Server at petfoodreport.com
http://www.petfoodreport.com/whatweknow.htm#labels
http://www.petfoodreport.com/labels
Product Names & Labels
Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.
Apache Server at petfoodreport.com
http://www.petfoodreport.com/w.....regulation
Regulation
Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.
Apache Server at petfoodreport.com
http://www.petfoodreport.com/w.....rnutrition
http://www.petfoodreport.com/nutrition
Proper Nutrition
Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.
Apache Server at petfoodreport.com
http://www.petfoodreport.com/w.....guidelines
http://www.petfoodreport.com/guidelines
Feeding Guidelines
Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.
Apache Server at petfoodreport.com
But, however, PFI remains:
““I can assure you that this industry takes the issue of the safety of pet food products with the utmost seriousness,†PFI’s spokesman Kurt Gallagher said Tuesday.
“Gallagher said his industry and the FDA are investigating ExperTox’s findings. But he cast doubts about the laboratory — and its test results.”
So serious none of the important information links work on the consumer website, Pet Food Report.
June 13th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Chuckles dad, spoken about here quite a bit (forgive me for forgetting the fur dads name here) is in a great article on consumer affairs today. Keep up the good work for Chuckles and for all of us who have lost a furkid, or still struggling to save them and all those staying aware and fighting the tainted food makers. Thank you!
Here is the article!
Menu Foods Samples Test Positive for Painkiller
Texas Lab Finds Acetaminophen in Canadian Manufacturer’s Products
http://tinyurl.com/37647n
June 13th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
well even if they go bankrupt and loose millions of dollars i will feel justified in thinking of it as a loss of
…
” several dollars”.
June 13th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Here’s Menu Foods monthly chart.
Don’t you love that really steep slope? It would be difficult to find a better NOSE DIVE.
MENU FOODS stock closed down (again) at $2.33 (Can), a LOSS of 21.61%.
Too bad Menu. You lied - pets died. Now it’s YOUR turn.
http://tsedb.globeinvestor.com.....g=MEW.UN-T
June 13th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
We are gonna have to test a lot of food and sell a lot of t-shirts to kill that lie of a few dead pets.
Come on, get your snark going.
I have seen some I like
5CatMom Says:
June 13th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Menu Foods Lied And
The PETS DIED!
Can we use that for our t-shirt campaign, 5CatMom ?
June 13th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Hi E.,
Yes, use it. I’ll see what else I can come up with.
June 13th, 2007 at 7:53 pm
How about a comic book FDA character holding a magnifying glass over a can of pet food.
Caption: I can’t find any acetaminophen!
June 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Great idea about cafepress!
Here are some slogan or theme ideas
FDA: We make FEMA look good! (Not mine, but its good)
(not sure about a copyright, but how about a Mr Magoo type character inspecting the food)
A cartoon of a little child standing over a fresh grave with his parents beside him/her: Mom says ‘We’ll miss our best friend’, Dad says “He had a good life, but died too soon”, the child says ‘But mommy, all we did was FEED Fuffy..’ With a bold caption “2007, the year feeding your pets was deadly”
This is so depressing.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
How about an FDA rep eating a can of pet food in a coffin.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Splitscreen
scene one - FDA suits sitting at a desk looking at the recall reports, reading the numbers - 16 confirmed dead
scene two - FDA inspectors standing at the entrance arches of “Pet Recall Cemetary” and through the gates all you can see is row upon row of little crosses. FDA inspector #1 looks at inspector #2 and says “Gee, 16 sure looks different from here”
June 13th, 2007 at 8:48 pm
I like them all. Floridian, i love that. something to do with the massacre of 2007 would be good. Just make sure all people get it that the animals are all dead because of the pet food.
June 13th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
I like the magnifying glass idea
Acetaminophen 10ppm, Howie is that the dry basis or wet?
June 13th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
” menu foods killed my pet with adulterated chinese food products and all i got was this stupid t shirt (also made in china).”
June 13th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
purringfur, that’s a truly scary report on those fish in S Africa, thanks for posting the link.
June 13th, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Ingredients: Chicken, Beef, Fish, Pork, Melamine.
June 13th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
E., here are a few ideas:
You are what you eat. (with a picture of a melachicken, melapig, melafish, etc.)
Got Melamine? (simple white lettering on a black shirt)
Melamine – it’s what’s for dinner.
Cyanuric Acid – it’s what’s for dinner.
Melamine – the other, other white meat.
Melamine – it’s not just for plastics anymore.
Cyanuric Acid – it’s not just for swimming pools anymore.
The truth is out there (but the FDA doesn’t want you to know)
FDA Math: 2527 + 2365 = “17 or 18†dead pets
These slogans could be on the front, with another on the back…something like “Pet Food Recall 2007″ or whatever.
Have you set up the cafepress store yet? What’s the address?
June 13th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
What about shirts for pets too? Ones like “Menu Foods Survivor” or “Please Don’t Feed Me Menu Foods” (and I’m sure everyone can come up with more) would probably be big sellers.
June 13th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Great idea E Hamilton! I’m in for a bunch of t-shirts. Ex semi-sweet old ladies rule!!!
Maybe some of us can sell them ‘live’ locally too … ?
Floridian, GREAT SLOGAN!!!
I am sorely disappointed the ASPCA would back up this nonsense. Anybody have a line on why they would do that?
June 13th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Two Mad-Cow patties, Mela Sauce, E-Coli Lettuce, Pickels, Onions on a Cyanuric Seed bun.
Say it real fast for a FREE Aceta-Slush!
June 13th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
mittens Says:
June 13th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
†menu foods killed my pet with adulterated chinese food products and all i got was this stupid t shirt (also made in china).â€
I like this one, but say “poisoned ingredients from China”
June 13th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
The ASPCA have been very disapointing lately. not like they used to be at all.
June 13th, 2007 at 10:46 pm
I need some help to figure out how to GET the slogans and any art work into files that can be uploaded, I SUCK at tech stuff, don’t ask how bad because the last poor bastid that tried to give me tech support is STILL on prozac.
That is how bad.
The minute we get the graphics, I say we have them sent to Ben and he can upload and voila! he is in business. Or whatever works.
I really do not need to know Ben’s personal info.
Anyone know how, Kat, maybe?
June 13th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
can you find tee shirts NOT sourced from China?
June 13th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Cafepress has a few “made in the USA” products. I’ve set up a few stores there (for my sister’s business, a rescue group, and one just for fun) - it’s not too difficult. I’m not a graphic artist, but I could probably help with the files if you want.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
how bout an X for every pet that has died
or an X for every pet food product recalled
either way = one shirt covered in X’s
June 13th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
& they would need to be long-sleeved tees to fit all the X’s on them
June 13th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
Debra Says:
June 13th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
You are ON.
All of us can help with what we do best.
We can sell all the designs we can come up with, well, YOU can get into a file or graphics thingy. My attempts at trying to draw with a graphics program I found were… I think my hubby peed his pants laughing
June 13th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
I love the x covered shirt theme, but cafepress only lets you select one graphic for the front, and one for the back.
Hey, cafepress has canvas shopping totes. What a great thing to buy to take to the grocery/pet stores :)
Another graphic for the front, how about a picture of a dog or cat sitting by its food bowl, an armless hand coming in from the side holding a can of dogfood or catfood opened up, poised over the food bowl and spilling out of the can, into the bowl the text ‘renal failure, ‘poison’, ‘toxic profits’, ‘death’, etc. That one would be very easy and very to the point.
June 13th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
E - wish i could help with the logo/design , but i like prozac and men who pee their pants!! LOL!!!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:12 am
elliott Says:
June 13th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
I have not one but *two* digital cameras that flat kicked my butt, and then they sneer at me, they are secure in the knowledge that I simply cannot figure them OUT!
My husband has 911 on speed dial for my attempts to do anything involving electricity. My hand to God.
June 14th, 2007 at 12:12 am
“If only they had told me When they knew”
My pet would still be alive
(Black t-shirt, white lettering, printed with either cat or dog silhouette)
“Mine died, did yours make it?”
Pet Food Poison 2007
“Still fighting for her life, but it’s terminal”
Pet Food Poison 2007
June 14th, 2007 at 12:18 am
Krista, all 4 are perfect!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Guys hold it a minute. I’ve been off line much of the day and am confused some here.
Now we Know, that the Testing has to be done in certain ways nd with specific equipment. We just learned that in the last week. The best as I am understanding NOW is with LC/MS/MS at the Lab{s}. And AND, SET at a low detection level 0.1 ppm as opposed to let’s use MidWest Labs level of 10 ppm and found Nothing.
Has ANYONE SEEN the FDA’s lab testing report and methods used???
Did They Quote any such numbers?
Did they say what Equipment/method they used?
You know, there is a reason the Gov. has set up FERN labs I think if I remember that stands for Food Emergency Response Network {or something close to that} It’s Not the FDA.
It for Food Security issues, bioterror, poisonings etc.
It was a FERN Lab that got the samples sent to them and found the Aminoptrin {they did the tests 3 TIMES when fining the Aminoptrin!!! {and a Lab in Canada did too}
Of course the All Powerful, All Knowing, Helpful and Credible FDA discredited the NY FERN Lab immediately.
WTF is with THAT????!
{pardon my language but!}
The FERN Labs HAVE the Equipment and the expertise to do SUCH testing and do it properly.
That’s WHY they are FERN!
Miwest Can NOT find Acetaminophen as of right now. Unless they get it set up and running. I was told By Midwest last week they Can’t. I was not aware of the testing detection LEVEL to set either at that date to ask about Midwest methods.
IHMO- Midwest can’t FIND any of what we are looking for properly, to date. Unless they Change things.
That’s up to them.
BUT I would Not send samples to them at all knowing what we’ve learned just recently.
The report from FDA says nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. It offers nothing to make any intelligent conclusions!
No How, with What, How much, what levels, what equipment. What settings etc. All missing. {I’m sure they like it that wa as well}
Now all the “outsiders” are bad-mouthing a Respected Texas Lab in their findings. {I’d sue their asses if it was MY Lab, for this too!}
I think Midwest should send the Bag to Texas! They did not even been tested for Acetaminophen!!
Just the Melamine and Cyanuric Acid and at detection settings to High!
{do you see anything wrong with This picture???!}
This would not be an abnormal procedure, the Cornell Labs sent the samples to the FERN Lab in the Begining right?
MidWest can’t do what we need right now.
And Certainly the FDA can’t do even Less.
And the samples they Tested Did come from the *Food Makers* themselves. Not off the shelves.
Didn’t they accuse “us” of essentially: “tampering” because a bag that tested Positive was OPEN?!
Finger Pointing goes BOTH ways Boys and Girls!
Pervious tests too of foods that folks sent in befor The Acetaminophen ares Suspect STILL in my Opinion!
Cause it was “just” found, in the past couple of weeks in *3 month* of Pure HELL!
We weren’t looking for THAT or anything like it. {Midwest is not set up for Acetaminophen so who Else isn’t????????!}
CERTAINLY NOT the Pet Food Manufacturers Either!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Out there cranking out Food la-dee-da every day!
If it takes a More specific set up to Test for these things and Labs or manufacturers AREN’T Then what?
I know, I’ve got more Questions than Answers BUT why the Heck Anyone would put creedence INTO the FDA is beyond me!
I’ve called a couple more Labs and been told, No they ‘can’t’ test like we’d Need.
I will keep searching and calling Labs.
Independent ones.
And if a Lab can’t do the Test properly and be compared to the previous findings, as in the Actaminophen Found by the Texas Labs; well then there is NO Contradiction to be Had! RIGHT?
Lastly, I do not believe the FDA. I do not think that They had the Proper Equipment nor know what settings to Find this stuff either.
{of course THEY do not What to Find it}
Let them Present to the Public the Actually Results and ALL info about the Testing procedures.
Including the Samples.
They need to Stop bad-mouthing the Texas Lab. And get Samples to a Creditible 3rd Party Lab with the Proper equipment and knowledge of what needs to be done for this whole Issue.
ALL of the parties on the “other side” need to do this. PERIOD!
A 3rd impartial PARTY get it?!
So where am I wrong in this thinking?
I’m plainly LIVID right now!
{I am All for the Tee Shirts! Sounds Good to Me!}
June 14th, 2007 at 12:34 am
Here’s a Tee shirt quote:
2007 Pet Food Poisonings
STILL on Going.
WHEN will They STOP It?!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Or:
FDA Sucks Worse than FEMA.
Is that Possible? YES!
Ask Me WHY!
Or I like the part previously:
FDA makes FEMA Look good.
Is That Possible? YES!
Ask Me WHY!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:47 am
I got a letter from my state senator today. He said he was looking into our pet problem. But I sure did not feel like he was speaking the truth.
My neighbor has two german shepard dogs and one of them was whining really bad and with the pet food being tainted and all I had to look. One of the dogs was lieing in the mud and the other one was nudging him trying to get him to get up. I thought the dog was dead! He raised his head just off the ground for second and then flopped it back down in the mud. This dog was sick! Very Sick! The other dog was whining for his friend. I went to the neighbors and told them. They thanked me and showed no emotion at all. The dogs were no longer in their yard. I wonder if they are okay or what happened to them. People that do not have the internet no nothing about any of this!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:51 am
Ya Ya -
I see what you are saying…What about Accutrace Lab in Arlington, Texas? Can they test at the levels we need and for the elements of acetamitaphon, aminoptrin in conjunction with melamine, cynauric acid? Have you contacted them? Maybe some of these private labs are gearing up for more sensitive testings?
June 14th, 2007 at 12:52 am
I want to thank all of you for all the information that you have offered on itchmo. You all have been so informative and I have really had my eyes opened to our FDA and government, etc. You all are so amazing!!!! Where do you find all this information?
Fantastic!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Oh yes I sent the picture of the canned science diet to my vet and have not heard a word from them yet. If I do not hear something soon then I may have to change vets!
June 14th, 2007 at 12:59 am
I want one of those T shirts.. I will wear it to the store down the pet food isle and maybe to my vets too!
June 14th, 2007 at 1:06 am
Hey everyone, Leslie K is having some major sounding health problems with her dogs from feeding Evangers dry food–you might want to check out her postings near the bottom of the Recall Udate: Wednesday forum:
http://www.itchmo.com/read/rec.....3#comments
I don’t know if it’s OK to cross post but this seemed important
June 14th, 2007 at 1:08 am
purringfur Says:
June 13th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
She added: “We are confident we found Aminopterin, and it makes sense
with the pathology.†She also said another laboratory, Animal Health
Laboratory at the University of Guelph in Canada, had confirmed the
presence of Aminopterin in the samples
=============
I talked to a man at Guelph yesterday. I forgot his name. He said they did find aminopterin in very low quantities, ppb or pptrillion, and that those levels can be found in a lot of samples. Like DDT, it is almost everywhere in low concentrations. While I don’t find that particularly comforting, it does make one question the significance of the find. He said his lab thinks it may be just an environmental contaminant. Of course, it could be due to light degradation of the sample, or a number of things. A big problem with the spotty information we do have is that there isn’t enough of it and it is disjointed. We need more research into the problem and then to be able to logically connect the dots. Maybe the FDA has done that and they just aren’t coming clean. Maybe someone else will have to it for them. I just hope someone does it so we can get some solid answers and fix this broken food safety system.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:13 am
Krista, I’ve talked with AccuTrace Labs. Several times.
The last time They called me, we were on the phone with when, P&G called them, on another Line. {in regards to the testing result that we once had actually Showing On Itchmo about a month ago}
They said they’d call me back because they Really had to talk with P&G.
{the test results jpg. was also removed from Itchmo’s homepage then too, remember}
They did not call me back. So I called them the next day. And was told that their PARENT Company was now handling ALL the Pet Food issues, by the receptionist.
We had talked about 3 times previously at Accutrace.
{upper Lab employee}
And it was explained to me previously that, Expertox is the Main “hub”, and they have Many Labs around the country send their specimens to Them. AccuTraceTesting IS Expertox.
So that brings us to just 1 that I’d trust for the right type of testing, right now, Expertox.
They are Very respected in Forensic/Toxicology and this is the type of Lab we need.
The Acetaminophen showed up ther because THEY LOOK for such things as they are a Drug Testing Lab as well.
pharma/toxicology/forensics
I’m not sure if they do DNA/GM/NANO etc testing too.
Didn’t ask.
It’s hard to match them. That’s why so many places utilize Their Labs.
I will keep pluggin’ away at it tho.
I venture to say VERY FEW have the Ability to do what Expertox Does so Well and wth Repsect! {including FDA and Pet Food maker folks!}
June 14th, 2007 at 1:15 am
OK, guess my cross-posting didn’t go through
Evanger’s dry dog food problems–check out Leslie K’s posting on the Recall update: Wednesday forum, toward the bottom. Her dogs have gotten quite sick eating one of the formulas
June 14th, 2007 at 1:39 am
Thanks Ya Ya -
Wow, you’ve really got this figured out.. I commend you for your diligent work too!! So Expertox is the one we need.
To everyone, you all add so much!! We would not be the “fighters” that we have become without the love and hard work of itchmo that has brought us all together.
Thanks to all..
June 14th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Great ideas keep it kinda short so people have time to read whats on our shirts wherever we go
June 14th, 2007 at 2:13 am
Petslave I went to read up on LeslieK and posted back. I’m VERY concerned about it. Your cross post worked for me! Thank you!
June 14th, 2007 at 2:22 am
Krista, nuthin’ like a Bully to P_SS Me off! LOL
That’s how I see all of this. They are Bullying us and hoping we die and go away For-Ever. NOT!
They could care less otherwise. The Pet Food Industry in this Country has Contaminated EVERYTHING now, due to their GREED. And I Do Not Like That at All. Beside the killing and sickening of Animals here.
Pet Foods did All of this.
It’s not some small infraction they did. It’s Huge.
It’s Not being handled properly and we’re here to Fix what they will not!
Nope I won’t allow a Bully.
June 14th, 2007 at 2:49 am
And apparently neither will Don tolerate bullies, or cowards and the FDA is BOTH! As well as liars.
Kat just posted this at petconnection!!!
#
Don, ExperTox et al have challenged the FDA!!
http://www.petfoodrecallfacts.com/lab.html
Comment by Kat — June 13, 2007 @ 11:35 pm
June 14th, 2007 at 2:59 am
PRAISE THE LORD!
June 14th, 2007 at 3:03 am
Spread the news and get some marshmallows, the fire is lit!
June 14th, 2007 at 3:04 am
And may I add: “Smak Down Part 1″!
June 14th, 2007 at 3:50 am
Just finished reading everyone’s postings.
How about a personalized T-shirt with a tombstone and RIP with our pet’s name under that and the date or year?
My date would be July 16, 2006, but Purr-Purr was sick for a long time with CRF. She was eating Trader Joe’s canned (Menu Foods) and Purina Pro-Plan (which may have not been contaminated) in the months before her death. The kitten was okay, but she sure does not have the energy she had before that — and she always took Purr-Purr’s food.
Most recently, I went out of town on May 9th and among the foods I got for the cats was Trader Joe’s Tuna. Well, I came home to poo on a rug, dried poo in the back bedroom and a report that my cat care person cleaned up several vomit and poo spots!!!!!!!!! TJs had insisted that the tuna was not made by Menu Foods and would be fine. Humph!
The last ingredient is Rice Flour! Of course they gave me my money back, but I still had to worry about my cats and clean the rugs!
Yes, I still have them on common juniper, and fig tree tinctures for this. That is probably why they are still okay.
June 14th, 2007 at 4:05 am
I like them all! All the ideas and there is nothing wrong with black humor when the occasion calls for it.
Dead pets will darken the dickens out of a person’s humor.
Ben will decide which designs, out of all the great idea’s, he wants to have on cafepress and there are so very many good ideas that I am glad the decision is not mine to make. LOL.
June 14th, 2007 at 5:52 am
I like the t-shirts idea. Maybe the slogans can also be put on buttons, baseball caps, book bags, etc.
June 14th, 2007 at 11:50 am
I know this situation was scary, but to be honest, these comments are worse than a 9/11 conspiracy page. You guys really need to settle down. Why on earth would anyone think that pet food companies would knowingly poison their customers? That is nonsensical. I agree that Menu didn’t react in a timely enough fashion, and I wouldn’t trust them with anything for my cats. But, the FDA has no interest in lying about the further testing that has been done. Someone in a previous post had the nerve to accuse the pet food companies of “spreading rumors” to invalidate the testing done at the private labs. What is really going on is that you people are spreading rumors about foods that have been officially tested clean. Luckily for you, the internet is an anonymous place, and no one will be able to charge you with libel or slander.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
It aint slander when it is TRUE.
I venture to say that most of us would love to get sued for saying the truth, a chance to get the lying bastids under oath AND have a judge take a boxcar full of their cash away from them , perhaps handcuffs for perjury?
http://tinyurl.com/3xe7qw
Attacking the reputation of an expert, because God knows they CAN”T use the truth- they do not have that. Don DOES!
The TRUTH is an absolute defense- it cannot be destroyed.
And it makes a mighty handy OFFENSIVE weapon too!
Use it!
Spread the news on the challenge. And the story above that I linked means the word IS getting out.
June 14th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
We have a new troll, isn’t that special. I wonder which pet food company is signing the check?
June 14th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Christine Says:
June 14th, 2007 at 11:50 am
I know this situation was scary, but to be honest, these comments are worse than a 9/11 conspiracy page. You guys really need to settle down.
Christine, I think you need to do some research or come clean as to what pet food company or other agency you represent. The first word in your post that raises eyebrows is saying the situation WAS scary. If you have done any true research and reading, you will find this is not over and has not been over.
My cat died in March and her food was touted to be clean by Nutro. Well it turns out that on April 10th the same food she was eating was tested at the request of another person and her vet and guess what, it came back showing the toxins. So dont come here and try to attack people without knowing the full story. Many of these people including me now have dead pets or pets that will be sick the rest of their lives. Do you have sick or dead pets from eating tainted pet food?
The food tested at Epertox did NOT test clean but yet its the pet food company, PFI and FDA that is saying that cant duplicate those findings. So who is really spreading rumors Christine? I would say its you and the other agencies. Do you realize that they did not even ask to test samples of the food that Epertox has before issuing their public statement?
I dont have patience left anymore for people that come here and attack without knowing what is really going on and without having pets affected. Please dont waste your time and ours.
June 14th, 2007 at 2:44 pm
Dear Christine, the internet is not anonymous and we are not the ones that should be afraid of criminal prosecution. If you do not have a sick or dead pet kindly get off of this messageboard. We do not have any patience for people like you.
ITCHMO ADMIN: Hey now. We’re not kicking anyone off because of a difference in opinion. This isn’t a place just for pet owners with sick or dead pets. It’s a place for all pet owners. Period.
June 14th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Got ya Ben, I apologize.
Maybe Christine needs some help to find the war zone here on the forums for posts like hers?
June 14th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Ben, I am ashamed at my behavior. I swore when this first started I wouldnt resort to the level I went to but I will claim a moment of temporary insanity. I have to somehow differentiate the difference between someone maybe not being educated about this pet food recall and try not to feel like they are attacking my already dead kitty at the same time. Guess its just a mama’s instinct setting in which can be ferocious. Sorry and I will ignore such things in the future. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion Im just not sure I understand what purpose it serves to post something like that but I also dont have to understand everything I know. OK Im off of this subject before I get in too deep again. Back to something more positive and beneficial.
ITCHMO ADMIN: Sandi, we can all relate. We have the benefit of being able to edit our comments. :)
June 14th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
Thanks for understanding Ben, I will try to be an upstanding Itchmo citizen! (-:
June 18th, 2007 at 1:29 am
As a pet food retailer who sold only one of the recalled foods (Natural Balance) I feel I must voice an opinion from the trenches. I have gone through every step of this recall with my customers, and am still going through it with them.
I spend a great deal of time sorting thru manufacturers’ claims and I can’t tell you the number of times a sales rep has used the pitch “it’s just as good as (pick a high-end food) but your cost on it is less!” My first question is “if it’s less, then what corners did you cut to make it?” A favorite saying from my Southern Dad: “if you let someone sell you a diamond ring for 10 cents, chances are you own a ring that’s not worth a dime!”
Before you continue to attack everybody and their brother for being greedy, liars or unethical (which by the way I am not and I resent being put into those categories by all the broad brush strokes y’all are using) you need to consider why imported ingredients are used.
The pet food industry knows exactly how much consumers are willing to pay for pet food. They hire very expensive research firms to give them that info. Soooooo, ingredients from the US cost more - substantially more - than imported ones. It costs less to can food out of the Country. It is cheaper to put US grown grain on a barge, process it in China and then return it to the US than to process it here. Of course, you lose control over the ingredients at that point.
The Chicken of the Sea plant in Southern CA closed during the Enron-driven energy fiasco a few years back. The company that owned it packed up & went home to Japan because the cost of electricity made their products unsaleable. That threw the canned pet food industry into a tizzy looking for anywhere to manufacture product.
Before casting stones, ask yourself; if I pay 50 cents per pound for pet food and ground beef costs more than $2/pound, how good & healthy can the food really be? Humans may survive on junk food, but they won’t stay healthy. Neither will our pets. Poor quality food, even without contamination, will lead to disease. You can’t blame tainted food for every sick animal. I have lost cats to kidney disease who ate raw food exclusively.
I beg some logical thinking here. As a biologist, I have a few commonsense questions to float:
1) acetominophen has no purpose in pet food that I know of. It costs money to add it. It kills pets. Why would a company intentionally put it into food? Melamine apparently boosts protein levels without the high cost associated with meat. That’s greed. But a pain killer? That kills pets? Give me a good reason for it to be there intentionally.
2) has any other lab found this contamination? Y’all are quick to jump my industry for being self-serving. Why wouldn’t a laboratory, knowing that concerned pet owners will want to test food, get a little free national publicity by “discovering” a new contaminant. I’m not saying this is the case, but do you have any idea how much this kind of publicity would cost? With all the suspicous minds on this post, you seem a little one-sided on this one. Has the lab shared it’s samples with an independent third party to test? It’s a simple way to counter the critisms that are being leveled at them.
3) a single incidence of contamination doesn’t hold up to scientific measure. The food could have been contaminated after manufacture. Do you have any idea how often I have to caution my customers to not use garbage can liners to store food in? Remind them to dump out the old food in a vittle vault before putting in the fresh? Not store food under the sink or in the garage next to chemicals? Again, send out your samples/lot numbers for independent testing.
Before you start a new Salem Witch Hunt, try to recover a little commonsense and decorum. You’ll get much closer to the truth and find more allies in your cause if you don’t show up raving and drooling like rabid dogs. Some of us ARE trying to reform the industry from within. How ’bout a little postive help instead of universal condemnation?