Innova Testing Results Posted By CEO Of Natura In Our Forums

Toxin tests performed on Innova dog food (by an Itchmo member) got more attention today when the CEO of Natura, Peter Atkins, posted their test results. Natura owns the Innova brand.

On Jun 4, 2007, Donna (Itchmo username PFR07PS) received test results on her sample of Innova dog food from ExperTox stating that it tested positive for acetaminophen and cyanuric acid. She was prompted to test for toxins after spotting black and white chunks in the Innova kibble.

Innova Kibble with specksShe paid for two tests. The first, performed on the dog kibble itself, tested negative for toxins. However, the second test, performed on just the black and white specks in the dog food (shown in photo) tested positive for cyanuric acid and acetaminophen.

Natura’s CEO said that the specks in the dog food are vitamin mineral premixes that did not dissolve during the manufacturing process — something Atkins said was “very uncommon”. He also added that the amounts of vitamins found in the kibble should not present any problems for pets.
The results found its way on to the ItchmoForums. Yesterday, the CEO of Natura responded in the thread with their test results — including a test of a similar batch of dog food from ExperTox. The sample of dog food sent in by Donna in May to Natura was not tested.

Atkins said:

Samples of both the retained samples of the actual production run for Donna’s food (the retain sample is a composite of the entire production run and does include a representative sample of Donna’s food, including a sample taken directly in the middle of the two samples that she sent us - i.e. Donna’s samples were stamped 2019 and 2022; our retain is time stamped 2021) and the premix used in that production was sent to two different laboratories for testing. As expected, both tests have come back negative for acetaminophen contamination.

He also continued on to apologize to Natura’s customers via the post, however Donna says that she has yet to receive a call from Atkins.

Atkins said although Natura is continuing to use Menu Foods’ South Dakota plant for their wet foods, they are still committed to building or buying their own plant. He added that Natura no longer sources any ingredients from China.

Donna’s full email to us is below:

I have followed the pet food recall very closely, mostly because I want to protect my two dogs as best I can. I thought I was in as safe a position as I could be as we purchased what is commonly referred to as a “super premium” dog food.

On May 3, we purchased two bags of Innova adult dry dog food. We opened the first bag the following week and fed our dogs a couple of meals from that bag. When we prepared their next meal we were surprised to discover some large black and beige unknown objects actually embedded in the kibble. These chunks were very hard and varied in size; some protruded sharply from the kibble. We opened the second bag and found the same. We contacted the company to alert them to what we found and even offered pictures of the foreign objects. The rep told me they did not need to see the pictures, but a few days later told us we could submit a sample for analysis.

We decided to obtain a second analysis from AccuTrace in Arlington, TX. This analysis was done privately at our expense. A few days later the lab called with the results. First, the overall test of the kibble did not detect any of the known toxins (melamine, etc.). However, the analysis of the black and beige objects yielded the detection of acetaminophen and cyanuric acid. I cannot explain how shocked I was to hear the results. The analysis was done with the GC/MS technique.

The black and beige specks are actually embedded into the kibble. There is no possible way someone could insert these objects after the kibble was manufactured and packaged. We do not take acetaminophen nor do we have any in our house. We purchased the bags at the pet store, opened them in our home and we are the only persons who had access to the bags. Therefore, it is our conclusion that the objects were embedded in the kibble during the production process. The lab has also assured us of their confidence in the detection of the contaminants of acetaminophen and cyanuric acid. To date, I have not been advised of the results of the analysis from Natura Pet, makers of Innova.

We do not believe the dogs had enough of this food to make them sick. However, starting in January both dogs were sick over the course of two months. It was sporadic and hard to determine why they continued to have tummy aches, refuse their meals, vomit, appear very lethargic, and the female experienced terrible problems with incontinence. I placed repeated phone calls to the manufacturer to determine if there were formula or supplier changes that might have resulted in a change in the food that might have upset their stomachs. I was repeatedly told, “no changes.” The only common denominator for their illnesses was the dog food. Unfortunately, I have none of that food to test.

I share this information to encourage others to be suspect of any and all pet foods. Do not ignore what your pet is trying to tell you. If they do not want to eat the food, there is a reason. If they show unusual symptoms or behavioral changes, check it out with your vet immediately. You must do your own research and testing to ensure the safety, health and well-being of your pet.

161 Responses to “Innova Testing Results Posted By CEO Of Natura In Our Forums”

  1. 5CatMom says:

    Very important that Natura test the food samples Donna sent to them.

    Test the BITS (which came from the premix) using the GC/MS technique, same sensitivity, etc. Either confirm or not confirm Donna’s findings and provide a logical explanation for the results - - whatever they may be.

    Testing a different handful of food using a different test method proves nothing.

    I could possibly forgive a manufacturing error, but a coverup? Not in a million years.

    Natura, we need some answers here. Fast.

  2. thomas says:

    Did I just read they stopped getting any products from China ? What did they receive from China and when did they stop using it? Why didn”t they test the vitamin premix for acetaminophen, cynauric acid at Expertox?Is that the ingredient they imported?

    Why did the food make my dogs sick?

  3. mittens says:

    i think this points up the glaring problem of the entire pet food recall-

    what actually happened- exactly what went wrong. where, how long, and why. it has never be adequetly let alone scientifically shown what precisely was sickening and killing pets and what exactly it was contained in and where that item came from.

    maybe these questions have been answered- which is the most frightening and infuriating thing of all- and we have purposely not been told.

    with now the new round of pet ood human food recalls it’s clear that the food manufacturing system in this country is improperly functioning, inadequetly supervised and is going to kiill people and pets. my grandfather canned food all the time. you only heard about botulism from faulty home canning and damged manufactured cans-the canning process has been around so long and our technology is so advanced now our food supply should be more safer and sanitary then ever.

    the question the fda refuses to answer or investigate properly is-why is it not ?

    i use evo dry cat food. i want to know why their goddamn food tested positive for painkillers. i want to know NOW. i understand that the original suspect sample was from an open bag which unfortunately is considered scientifically unsound no matter how true the test results are and how truthful the owner of the bag is.

    if this dog food ,which i am unfamiliar with , does not contain grain ( the evo i use does not) that just about heaves out the gluten as culprit and thus solved happy thought the pet food industry has been trying to coast out of this fiasco on.

    it just all seems like a manufactured answer. no answer really at all.

  4. 5CatMom says:

    Natura may not realize it, but Donna has done them a HUGE favor.

    Many folks would have thrown the food away and changed brands rather than do the work to have the food tested get Natura in the loop.

    Mr. Atkins owes her a phone call and a “thank you”.

    As a user of Natura products, I thank Donna, and my cats thank Donna.

  5. Captn' Carl says:

    Donna: Hat’s off to you for the determination to find out just what the problem with Natura’s food was. The lies about the white and black objects imbedded in the food come as no surprise.

    Regarding the Natura CEO’s replies:

    Since when are Acetaminophen and Cyanuric Acid also known as or considered to be vitamins and minerals?

    Peter Atkins is just another lying bastard! One of hundreds involved in trying to cover up what is really going on.

    Donna hit the nail on the head with two statements she made:

    The First: “Do not ignore what your pet is trying to tell you. If they do not want to eat the food, there is a reason. If they show unusual symptoms or behavioral changes, check it out with your vet immediately.”

    And Secondly: “You must do your own research and testing to ensure the safety, health and well-being of your pet.”

    I have never had a pet that would not immediately eat whatever was given them if they liked it. When a pet refuses to eat something, they are telling you something.

    Unfortunately, I have read several previous posts where the poisoned food was forced on the pet because it was “supposed to be healthy”. These grieving surviving pet owners are now each in their own private hell because they believed the lies spoon fed them by the Corporate Liars.

    The Words “Premium”, “Super Premium” and like “BAIT PHRASES mean absolutely nothing, and in fact wherever they are displayed should trigger an immediate red flag and warning that bold faced lies are once again being used to induce confidence. Look around. How many things touted as “Premium” really measure up to the definition of that term? Few if any.

    Look at how misleading and useless the word “Discount” has become over the years. It used to mean a savings. It now just represents another devious ploy to sucker consumers into paying higher prices for something that could be had for less without the term “Discount”!

    Buyer bewares, and in this case, be doubly suspicious of the useless wording used to hype products for your pets.

    Russian roulette.

    Thanks Donna for following through and exposing another Corporate Liar for what he is and their products as dangerous despite his lies!

  6. susan says:

    I was feeding my two cats Prairie Life kibble and Innova EVO kibble when the pet food issue began to pick up steam. Having eaten all of the previous bags, I bought a new bag of each and that’s when my cats refused to eat. I didn’t notice anything different w/ the Prairie Life (although I recognize that my cats’ sense of smell is much better than mine). However, I did notice the same kind of black flecks in the EVO (no white flecks) ! That’s when I tossed the kibble and began home cooking while putting several other varieties of kibble to the taste-test of my cats. I ended up going w/ KumpiKat (that I learned about from the postings on this site). In four months of feeding this food, I’ve seen more kitten-like behavior and energetic play out of my guys.

    They’re not finicky eaters, but they know when something isn’t right. I, too, watch their behavior closely. You know your pets personality better than anyone… even better than your vet. If you think something’s not right and your vet disagrees, take your pet to another vet. Listen to your animals… they will tell you when something is amiss.

    Susan

  7. Suzanna says:

    5CatMom says:
    July 24th, 2007 at 2:44 pm

    “Many folks would have thrown the food away and changed brands rather than do the work to have the food tested get Natura in the loop.”

    Oh, thank God I didn’t throw the Innova dry food away that killed my dog back in March ‘07. I saved the food . . . and only God knew why I should. Now I will have it tested to confirm that I was RIGHT back then. That food killed my dog. Period. I’m sending samples to ExperTox and will pay $375 for the testing. I will be happy to report to Itchmo the lab reports in 8-10 days as they said. I am so sick and tired and disgusted with what the pet food companies are getting away with!!!! Innova???? NO MORE. I’m done. I’m ready to do whatever it takes to expose them, no matter what it costs me. My sweet, most loving and loyal dog deserves justice for this crime.

  8. Carol says:

    Although at first I was pleased that this CEO actually took the time to do the testing, I find it alarming that he would not do it at the same lab–apples to apples as they say-0- but I find the fact that he did not contact her first is more insulting to Donna and All the pet parents who have concerns about this “unusual undissolved pre-mix” that won’t harm our pets! Maybe he could eat it in front of us to verify he knows what he is talking about!

  9. bengals says:

    ok, I’m confused…I feed my kitties Innova EVO. I understand this is the dog food line, and EVO is not the same line as the regular Innova….should I be worried too??? My kitties seem to be perfectly fine. They eat both EVO hard and soft food.

  10. Anonymous says:

    Due to our previous unacceptable experience with problem (non)identification and (non)resolution in the petfood indusry and FDA, we should then consider any vitamin-fortified petfood suspect.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Since bulk of vitamins now sourced from China. So where is the vitamin pre-mix really coming from? A third-party supplier that masks the country of origin?

  12. Anonymous says:

    Are Innova’s dog and cat foods mfrd at the same plant?
    Are ingredients for all Innova varieties sourced from same supplier(S)?
    Are all ingredients currently being used ON the label? If not, what are they, how long have they been used, who is the supplier and what is the country of origin?

  13. Anonymous says:

    Full and complete 100% truthful disclosure is the only acceptable response to satisfy Innova customers. NOW. AND ACTUAL COMPARABLE TEST RESULTS.

  14. 5CatMom says:

    Just got off the phone with a customer service representative at Natura (800/532-7261).

    I have a few questions about the “supplements” that are used in their cat foods.

    Yes, some of the “supplements” come from China. And yes, they come with certificates of purity.

    OK Natura, what supplements/ingredients do YOU test and what tests do YOU perform?

  15. Anonymous says:

    Innova has already lost my business by their handling of this.

  16. Anonymous says:

    prev. post: Yes, some of the “supplements” come from China. And yes, they come with certificates of purity.

    and those “certificates of purity” can double as toilet paper imo.

  17. Carol says:

    I don’t have a real good sense of safety with “certificate of purity” from China. Anybody else???

  18. Garyn says:

    I am not surpised that Natura did not call Donna. I emailed Natura in March 2007, as soon as I found out that menu made their food, to tell them my cat had stopped eating her Innova canned in December 06 after loving it for five years, and that despite her not wanting to eat it, I continued thereafter to feed it (yes I am in a private hell about that) and beginning at that time, I alternated it with Fancy Feast. I told them that she died on March 4, 2007. I asked several questions of Natura including with regard to their claim of using healthy ingredients, cross contamination etc. I never heard one word from them. I did not even get a reply email saying gee sorry your cat is dead. And they knew I had the left over food and they never said send it so that they could test it, to make sure it wasn’t poison. I heard nothing.

    And did you notice that their website used to say that they were testing for cyanuric acid. That seems to have been removed. Now it only says melamine.

    And also they changed the line about having a representative at the plant. It used to say for every batch. Now it just says onsite to oversee production.

    And where is the IMMEDIATE commitment to opening their own plant. Trust me, that isn’t happening.

    I still have the food. One day I will have the extra money to test it. That day will come. Sleep well, Mr. Atkins and thanks much for responding to my email about my dead cat.

  19. Katie says:

    Thank you Donna for having had the food tested.

    RE: CEO of Natura
    We have all been wondering now, for how long…., if the vitamin pre-mix all the manuf. are using - is the culprit. I suggest to the CEO that they test several samples of their pre-mix. I think they should retest Donna’s food. We all know how much food is in a production run - and how well mixed it is not. If they have production run samples, they should be doing multiple samples and should look for unusual items in the kibble. What is being done is not good scientific investigation. If we had done that with samples in high school or college chemistry - we would have gotten F’s. It’s the same old story: they don’t like their dirty secrets in the media (how none of them test adequately),than profits start to fall and people question the product so they do what they can to make their results look good and hopefully lay the “black cloud” on pet owners.

    As an example: in human medicine, if I looked at one slide for malaria and called it negative; not only is that bad lab procedure but the human could be gravely ill with the disease. It takes looking at many slides. And the slides all come from the same tube of blood. Same holds true for a food production run.

    It took a pet food crisis to enlighten me! My dog is a survivor of bad food - a different pet food. I wish I had a sample to test because: several bags had similar large hunks in the kibble, I thought it was odd…. but it smelled okay and I fed it. I put way to much trust into the PFI, thinking they did everything humanly possible to protect pets.

    I’m afraid Donna will be waiting a long,long time for Mr. Atkins to contact her. He’s only into the PR spin.

    Katie

  20. thomas says:

    I called them many times and asked if they imported anything from China . I was told over and over no, everything came from this country. then my dogs started getting ill. I am mad and feel betrayed!!!

  21. Marie says:

    Does anyone feed their pet Organix food? I am thinking of switching from EVO & Ca Natural to that. I too was swayed into thinking this food was safe, but my cat barfed a while back and am wondering now if this was the problem. Not sure what to feed them anymore. I feed my dogs wenawai which is 95% organic and expensive but who knows that that contains.

  22. Jenny Bark says:

    I agree with all of you. Do you hear that PFI ?

  23. Ann H says:

    5CatMom says:

    July 24th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
    Just got off the phone with a customer service representative at Natura (800/532-7261)….Yes, some of the “supplements” come from China. And yes, they come with certificates of purity.

    Oh joy, what comfort! *NOT*

    Does anybody have the link to the letter the FDA sent to the pet food companies telling them that *they* were responsible for the safety of their pet foods?

  24. Maria says:

    Thank you Donna, and thanks to Itchmo for posting this…my newly purchased can of Innova cat food will be going straight to the garbage. I had planned to serve it to my cats tonight to see if they liked it, in an attempt to transition them from their current Fancy Feast canned food.

    Home cooking is looking better all the time, but does anyone know of/recommend a safe vitamin supplement to use for adult cats? Maybe I’m misinterpreting some of the posts in the blogs, but it seems like some people are saying that vitamin and mineral supplements are also sourced from China, whether or not the manufacturer acknowledges this. Anyone know of, or using, a safe vitamin supplement for their pets’ home cooked meals?

  25. 5CatMom says:

    Suzanna,

    Very sorry that you lost your sweet dog. Good luck with your testing. It’s all very sad and very disturbing.

    These companies tell us their food is safe, they do their own testing, blah, blah, blah.

    Guess this ‘ol cat mom will have to go and buy a meat grinder. I’d rather kill ‘em myself than let these lying companies do it.

  26. SmartCookie says:

    Can any pet food truthfully say that NONE of their supplements come from China? I thought virtually 100% of our taurine comes from China.

  27. NH says:

    Okay so now I’m mad. I feed my dog Innova kibble as well canned. So what this thread is telling me is, Innova is poisoned? I’m so mad right now I could throw a brick. I mix Innova with 2 other dog foods. So now I have to throw out all of the kibble? I just bought several cans of Innova and now I have to throw that out too? B-a-s-t-a-r-d-s!

  28. Ann H says:

    You know what? I’m so tired of this, one day they source it all from the US, then they don’t use .. then they use…some really credible piece of paper we’re to believe makes it safe…

    Safe is safe. Maybe safe won’t cut it.

    The Midwest lab tests for 10ppm Melamine & cyanuric.. I take it that means under 10ppm is safe and wouldn’t be identified?

    UCD tested for limit 1ppm of acetaminophen, less is safe?

    Expertox had *trace* acetaminophen in the original test of the “chunks”.

    Natura seems to indicate that the did NOT test Donna’s sample, but a representative selection from their retained samples..

    Word games… our pets lives.

    I’m done with it.

  29. Golden Lover says:

    Natura, I have called you many times about your supplements , vitamins etc. You always say NO when I mention, are they coming from China? you liars!!
    I am taking my pets off your crap!!

  30. Ann H says:

    Maria says: July 24th, 2007 at 4:36 pm. VITAMIN suppliement..

    Maria check with your vet, today mine recommended that I get infant vitamins for Geneva… she’s seen her and knows her health and bloodwork. So, please, don’t self medicate with these, but check with your vet to see if it is an option for yours based on your animals bloodwork & health.

    EVO for cats & kittens is going into the trash.

  31. Suzanna says:

    NH,

    I also mixed my Innova dry kibble with THEIR canned food. My dog died. I still have the dry kibble food from a left over bag. I just don’t have anymore of the canned food. But I will be testing the dry food I have from the begining of this year. Too bad I don’t have any of their canned food anymore . . . I bet it would be a problem too.

    I would stop using their foods if I were you. Trust me, I know my dog was as healthy as could be. My Vet even confirmed it, but he had no clue about the food recalls. She died within weeks. I hope I can help others and then her death wouldn’t be so in vain.

  32. Roberto P. says:

    I was under the impression that all of the counterfeit stuff from China, poisoned wheat powder masquerading as wheat gluten and RPC, DEG masquerading as glycerine had certificates of purity. We hear of vitamins tainted with lead and arsenic. Now we’re supposed to believe in these current certificates? BS on rye!

  33. shibadiva says:

    We would also like some answers on the other unexpected inclusions in Innova kibble - blue plastic, nylon (?) line, sutures? Are these production anomalies, urban legends or what?

  34. 5CatMom says:

    SmartCookie,

    Believe you’re right about that. The Natura rep told me their taurine comes from China.

    [So why did Mr. Atkins tell Itchmo “that Natura no longer sources any ingredients from China”? Is taurine NOT an ingredient?]

    Lots of stuff comes from China and elsewhere.

    Which explains why these US companies MUST DO THEIR OWN TESTING and not rely on foreign certificates of purity.

    As I told the Natura rep, ChemNutra’s junk had certificates too.

    That “garbage in - garbage out” way of doing business is how the recall got started.

    What a mess! What a mess!

  35. Lesliek says:

    Maria-Ann H is right,check with your vet.However alot of them are very anti-homecooked.You can add taurine by using canned clams. Snow brand is made[caught] in USA with no msg.Just rinse them because there is added salt.You can grind clean cooked eggshells for calcium.Most of the other vitamins can be added by using a small amount of lightly steamed fruits & veg.If your cats like slices ;just cut it very small. If they like loaf style;puree in food processer after mixing & cooking.

  36. 5CatMom says:

    Marie says:

    July 24th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
    Does anyone feed their pet Organix food?
    ——————————————————-

    Marie, Organix is a Castor & Pollux food. Castor & Pollux has had recalls. See link:

    http://www.thepetfoodlist.com/petfoods_pg1.htm

  37. Garyn says:

    From an April 2, 2007, press release posted on Natura’s website:

    “Natura has also instructed its buyers to utilize ingredients from domestic suppliers only.”

    http://www.naturapet.com/about......asp?id=16

    That statement was meant to have us believe that their ingredients were US sourced but worded so as to allow the supplier to source from elsewhere so long as the supplier was domestic. Things like this really tick me off.

  38. catmom5 says:

    That’s it for me! I believed in Natura and trusted them, I wanted to be able to believe and trust in them. Too bad because my cats really like the Cal Nat. Natura, you have lowered yourselves the the pfi standards and, as a result, are losing a whole lot of pet parents. I really thought you were better than that . . . I’m beyond angry!!!

  39. Dennis says:

    I suspect we’re (including the pet food makers) just getting around to discovering that this whole taint issue isn’t over.

    Much of our nutritional supplements come from China and depend upon quality assurance tests. We’ve also seen that much of our spices come from there and also depend upon quality assurance.

    I wonder if some companies overlooked carefully lab testing their supplements and spices that they may be adding to the food.

    We’ve already seen companies relying on the word of others only to find that what they were told wasn’t true. And it mattered.

  40. stray says:

    Lesliek says:
    July 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pm

    Snow’s is a Castleberry’s Brand. Different plant, but same company. I used some of their minced clams and later that day saw their expanded recall :-/ i have a couple of cases of clams from Scotland. Packed in water/no salt added. Just clams and water. What a concept ;)

  41. straybaby says:

    Dennis says:
    July 24th, 2007 at 6:53 pm

    the Veggie Booty contamination is believed to be from the spices/flavoring imported from China . . .

    i’m pretty much on whole foods only as are my pets.

  42. HalM says:

    Does this really surprise anyone? Does anyone think Natura is any different from any other pet food company? ALL of them are only concerned with making the biggest profit possible at the smallest possible expense. Atkins is the spokesman, and what he says is classic ‘Corporate Speak’ (translation: Complete Bullshit). While it may be true that Natura will only buy ingredients from domestic suppliers, that doesn’t mean domestic sources. So now we find out that some vitamin suppliments use by Natura come from China, not the U. S. Wonderful!! Months and months of reports of contaminated ingredients coming from China, months and months of Natura claiming that they have the healthiest dog food in the world, that none of their ingredients are made in China….only to find out that, once again, we have a company that produces more bullshit than dog food!

  43. Debi says:

    5catmom, I use castor and pollux dry food, it is manufactured at CJ foods. I spoke to the man that, I guess is one of the top guys that run the business. I learned quite alot. For one thing 95% of the vitimins are sourced out of China, American lamb is bad, and American taurine can be found at health food stores under the names Nature’s life and all the nutraceutical products are made in the USA, as far as other supplements go. Going back to castor and pollux, rigourous testing goes into the foods that are labeled organic, even tho the dry food is only 70% organic. I don’t whats going on with innova but I will spend my money on this food until stuff cools down, if it ever does.
    Before anyone asks me what is wrong with american lamb, I will say it now, american lamb is known to have BSE, which is bovine spongiform encephalopathy, which is basically a brain disease. It is transferable to humans and pets. That is why almost all of pet food co.’s get there lamb from Austraila and New Zealand.

  44. Ann H says:

    When I first got the gritty EVO for cats & kittens, I looked at this:
    http://www.natureslogic.com/ne.....ticleID=43

    Then I ordered their dry Rabbit kibble. Ling loves it, Miss Kitty still prefers the Orijen/Fromms.. Geneva, my problem furchild, now has the Chicken & the Duck on order.

    They have a transition protocol page to help transfer furkids to the food (which I deeply appreciate as it will lessen the stress of the change for them/her):
    http://www.natureslogic.com/pd.....otocol.pdf

    I hope it’s not another yellow brick road from the Wizards of PR…

    I’ll also be reviewing it with my vet and talking about the infant vitamin dosage, if Geneva decides she’ll eat it..ya’ll know how finicky cats can be..

  45. Debi says:

    Ann, don’t want to be a know it all, but the fromm’s food is made in China!

  46. Ann H says:

    Yup, I know, and I’m slowly moving her to Orijens off of it, but I still haven’t experienced any problems at all with the food, Fromms is one of the rare non-chicken kibble that Miss Kitty will eat (it’s salmon).

    Here’s a recap of some, IMO, pertinent posts that have occurred in the forum on this Innova topic…

    http://itchmoforums.com/news-r.....2#msg15902

  47. 5CatMom says:

    Debi,

    Thanks for the taurine info. I’ll check it out.

    Glad that CJ guy answered your questions. The more questions, the more information. The more information, the better the food buying decision.

    CJ is a contract company not far from here, so maybe I’ll drive over and see their plant. Don’t know too much about them, except I believe they were involved in the Blue Buffalo cat food recall.

    Here’s the link:
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/.....usat_N.htm

  48. Maria says:

    AnnH and Lesliek,

    Thanks for your advice–I will check with my vet re: what to add to homecooked food. There’s no guarantee the furchildren will go for homecooked, but for my peace of mind I’m willing to try…I just want them off Fancy Feast, even though they like it. The one I use is Turkey & Giblets–no glutens, no rice protein concentrate, no chunks, no gravy, supposedly not made by Menu Foods nor ingredients sourced from overseas. And I wouldn’t trust Purina as far as I could throw them.

    Am also currently feeding a little of Wysong Vitality dry kibble, hoping to transition to KumpiKat but was worried about its high grain content.

    I too read about all of the taurine being sourced from China. At this point, I see no end in sight to this. I’d like to know how long the pet food companies have been doing sourcing ingredients from China–3 years? 5 years? Longer? How many pet deaths long before the official recall could be attributed to their lousy food?

  49. MaineMom says:

    To: Peter Atkins

    Don’t bother about responding to my e-mail of last week re: Powdered residue at the bottom of the last two bags. I won’t be purchasing EVO ever again! Or any other Natura product.

    From: PM Hill
    Lincoln, CA

  50. Beth says:

    I just want to cry. I have three dogs. They were on Nutro Lamb and Rice since the day they were born. They started barfing yellow foam. I got scared. I read labels. I read more labels. The rice protein, the rice gluten scared me to death. I weaned them off Nutro and on to Solid Gold Hund-n-Focken. They wouldn’t eat it. I returned it. I bought Innova Evo. They loved it, but my house smelled like a cess-pool. I went thru “weaning” with the change-over, but the EVO was entirely too rich for my older dogs. I finally settled on Innova Reduced Fat. I still have one of my dogs that won’t eat it.
    I have an epileptic dog and have recently started her on one of Brombeck’s “hepatic diets”, but am still adding 1/4 cup of the Innova Sr. My Epi dog on this last bag just got to where she can barely stand up or walk. Her behavior is NOT from her anti-seizure medication.
    With reading about what is going on with Innova now, I am questioning this food. Are the vitamins/supliments causing her problems?
    Something such as this should not happen because you have a new bag of dog food……
    Has anyone experienced similar mobility or muscular problems?

  51. Trudy Jackson says:

    So all the Taurine comes from china? I have a cat on 2 pills a day for dialated cardiomiopathy. Very serious. and with this new bottle I just got, i told my husband the cat hasn’t looked good for a couple of weeks.
    Then, of course I just got the black plastic peices in the canned food for my 20 year old cat.
    And funny little peices of white [something] in my dry cat food.
    then, the beneful that almost killed my dog. I still have the Beneful, and whoever said to have it tested, I would if i could afford it. Not all of us can do that.
    and the Damn PFI knows that. They should be putting out the money to have this tested.
    And My best friend just wrote to Me that Her cat is on Evo.
    We are going to have to do something. The letters just aren’t working.

  52. Debi says:

    Our little pit bull had seizures since she was 6 weeks old. Somewhere I heard that taurine was almost a miracle solution, we started her on around 500 mgs. a day and she hasn’t had a seizure in about 8 months, she is now 3. Do some intense research into taurine and you will see how it not only helps dogs with heart disease, but also can help in seizure dogs.

  53. Trudy Jackson says:

    Yes, the Taurine has saved his life. But I don’t like getting it from China. What if I get a bad batch? You never know anymore.

  54. MaineMom says:

    Trudy, will your cat eat minced clams? Per a poster, rinse Snows canned clams and feed for the taurine suplement.

  55. straybaby says:

    Trudy Jackson says:
    July 24th, 2007 at 9:53 pm

    use beef or chicken hearts (raw is best, but if you cook, use a low heat) or clams, which pack the most bang in the Taurine area. no need to use China Taurine. Up further in this thread is a mention of an American Taurine, but I would go for the food source Taurine as you get all the trace with it.

  56. Chris says:

    I have been using Innova for 5 years without any problemsl. I have 5 dogs and 5 ferrets that eat the Innova cat Evo and regular cat mixed. They are all quite healthy.
    I do trust their product. Maybe I’m being foolish but I’m sticking with them. I know quite a few people that use Innova and everyone’s dogs and ferrets are fine (a local ferret rescue uses the same mix of food).

  57. 5CatMom says:

    Trudy Jackson,

    The taurine was Nature’s Life, posted by Debi.

    I’ll call them tomorrow. Here’s a link:

    http://vitanetonline.com/Natureslife.cfm

    PS Anyone know how many pounds of clams you have to feed to get 500 mgs of taurine?

  58. Anonymous says:

    use beef or chicken hearts (raw is best, but if you cook, use a low heat) or clams, which pack the most bang in the Taurine area. no need to use China Taurine. Up further in this thread is a mention of an American Taurine, but I would go for the food source Taurine as you get all the trace with it.(Straybaby)

    Good point for sure.
    Wild salmon oil(human capsules)is a really beneficial addition to raw and homecooked meals.But lots of people (experienced in home feeding)feel that other than that vitamin and mineral supplements aren’t really necessary.
    Don’t forget that the commercial foods(and I use the term loosely)are processed to death,so synthetic vitamins and minerals need to be added back in.
    If we feed REAL food,either raw or cooked,unless we have special needs pets,the vitamins and minerals are supplied by that REAL food.
    Join a group like K-9Kitchen or K-9Nutrition,or CNRS to feel more comfortable about appropriate diets to follow.
    Just keep asking questions until you work out something that you and your pets like.
    Canned mackerel ,sardines are good additions to raw-fed diets too.

    Lorna

  59. HomeGrown says:

    Taurine Content of Selected Foods

    http://books.nap.edu/openbook......mp;page=47

  60. John says:

    Holy hell.

    I flipped out when Nutro was so involved and so dishonest about the Menu scandal. After a lot of reading and a lot of research, I switched my very sensitive-stomach dog to Innova Evo. I really thought I was doing the right thing. After reading all this, I just can’t do it anymore.

    I can’t home-cook for my dog - I can’t even home-cook for myself. We travel a lot and are in hotel rooms often. Is there ANY dry kibble that people have confidence in, from a company that is widely considered to be honest, reliable and forthcoming with it’s customers?

    Even though I haven’t had any problems myself with Evo, what I see here doesn’t make me feel very good about their products, nor do statements on their website that they do not source any protein supplements from non-US sources - which, of course, makes everything that ISN’T a protein supplement fair game.

  61. Maria says:

    I don’t have dogs, but I have heard that Timberwolf is good; also the Kumpi product.

  62. Ruth says:

    Well, now that we know that pet food companies read and post on Itchmo, I have to ask Peter Atkins something. I hope he will read this and answer.

    1.Why didn’t your company test the samples that Donna sent to you? Were they thrown out?

    2. Were the samples your company tested in the same manner as Donna’s samples?

    3. Where are you getting the vitamins that is in your dog food since most of the vitamins are from China?

    I would think if you wanted for once and all prove that your product was safe you would have tested the samples Donna sent in.

    At this point your PR isn’t getting any points. Pet owners aren’t convinced that the food is any safer. The pet owners who have posted and said the food that they are feeding may just be lucky to have picked up a good bag but what about the next batch they buy at whatever store they shop.

    Personally, its become a crap-shoot buying pet food. Will this bag or the next one be the one to make a pet sick or die?

  63. HalM says:

    After reading more comments from other concerned owners, I called Natura this afternoon. I spoke with Veronica, the service rep at the 800 number. I explained that I had a two and a half year old German Shepard that had been on Innova since she was a puppy, and had just recently (three weeks ago) started acting lethargic, had gastric upset, was refusing her food, and wasn’t acting herself. Within 48 hours of taking her off the Innova product, she was back to normal in all respects. So…

    I asked if it was true that Natura was using a vitamin mix manufactured in China. The response was that they are going to START using Chinese ingredients in the future…but haven’t as yet. When I commented that using vitamins, or any ingedient from China was about the stupidest thing imaginable in view of the current tainted products from China, she said that the vitamins would be fine because they would have a certificate that said so! Seems to be more BS to me, since they have already said that they use vitamins from China.

    I also asked why the samples sent to them by other customers were not re-tested by the same labs….the response was that it was unnecessary since they tested samples from the same lot. When I commented that it was poor scientific procedure, Veronica said she “wasn’t going to debate the subject” She further stated that if the information I was getting was from the Itchmo site, that I shouldn’t believe what I read. Maybe I shouldn’t believe info on Itchmo…especially if it’s posted by Natura or Atkins!

    She asked if I had my dog tested or vet checked. I said no, I didn’t, but that since the dog returned to normal after being taken off the Innova product, it was pretty clear, even from solely empirical data, that the food was the cause. She suggested that the dog had somehow developed a sensitivity to the food and that there was nothing wrong with the food itself. PLEASE! After more than two years, the dog is now food sensitive? And at precisely the same time that other owners are reporting similar problems/symptoms? This woman spouts almost as much BS as Atkins himself!

    She eventually became rather rude and asked if there was anything else I wanted to discuss….and then hung up on me in mid-sentence.

    Seems to me this company is more suited to the fertilizer business than the pet food business….they certainly know how to shovel the bullshit!

  64. jody says:

    Has anyone heard anything about Evanger Wet dog food?

  65. ferdiemeow says:

    o.k. so if anyone wants to know the skinny. evangers is a great food in fact some of it is even koshur. my kitties say meeoww. timberwolf is another great line and should be looked into. natures logic has no synthetic vitamins or minerals. all are derived from natural sources so this one may be of interest as well. natures variety (prarie) may also be right up your alley as this company seems to do everything right as well. i have also had as of yet no complaints on solid gold or wellness (though they use menu foods to can they paid to have the machines washed before canning so they were not part of the cross contamination) wysong may also be a food to try but hard to find.

    I obtain most of my info from my customers. I manage a pet store that specializes in holistic nutrition and most of what we carry has not been recalled (so far) I keep in very close contact with my customers and have had no complaints about any of the brands mentioned here. hope this helps.

  66. 5CatMom says:

    ferdiemeow,

    Thanks for the info. Any idea who manufactures Timberwolf’s food. I went to their website and found this:

    “At one time, Diamond Pet Foods manufactured our food; however, we have moved production to another facility owned by another company (we cannot give this information out, as it is proprietary). They specialize in manufacturing specialty formulas of pet foods and meet our high standards for exceptional quality production.”

    Would appreciate it if you would talk to your sales rep about this lack of disclosure. Since they contract their manufacturing, I would have lots of questions about how do they ensure the process is in control?

    The fact that they won’t even reveal who makes their food does not inspire confidence.

  67. Lorna says:

    ferdiemeow says:

    I manage a pet store that specializes in holistic nutrition and most of what we carry has not been recalled (so far) …..

    Thanks for your feedback,ferdiemeow.
    Don’t forget,though,that not having been recalled is not a sign of safe food.

    Just ask Don Earl(www.petfoodrecallfacts.com) what killed his beloved Chuckles,for one example.

    Lorna

  68. Roberto P. says:

    Yesterday my wife called Natura to ask about the vitamins. They said they had a certificate of purity from China so they didn’t need to do any testing. I suspect that is true of most companies. Food safety still seems to be just a paper exercise.
    We homecook now and use NOW taurine which used to be from Japan. I wouldn’t order it again because they use Chinese taurine now. We add eggshell and rotate through the oils. That’s pretty much it on the additives.
    We don’t trust commercial pet foods any more. IMHO, natural and holistic are just words. If you think about it, animal digest is all natural, but I don’t want to feed it to my cats.

  69. Lesliek says:

    Beth-My chi had trouble on a different food. He was very hesitant to jump up onto laps/furniture & walk up steps.Never found out what it was. When I switched his food it went away within 2 days. Doing all homemade now.I don’t know what the problem is with all these different brands;but if its in the vitamins they all add them.

  70. Lesliek says:

    Stray- I knew about the Castleberry link but they were the only ones made in USA w/o msg.Where did you find the scottish ones ?

  71. 5CatMom says:

    Dear Friends,

    Natura’s news yesterday was the last straw. Yet another company that just doesn’t get it and is unresponsive.

    When I checked out the forums this morning, there was a homecooking/raw subject that had been started for dogs.

    I’d be so grateful if someone with experience in cooking for cats would do the same in the cat section of the forums.

    We’ve been doing some basic stuff with homecooking and raw, but I’m concerned that without any commercial food, we may not be providing sufficient amounts of taurine and other vitamins and minerals that cats need.

    Was up all night looking for hearts and domestic taurine, so any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

  72. Debi says:

    The foods that I think are good are Evengers, who also cans brandon farms organic dog foods, for the dry foods I pretty much go with the organics, only because the testing on them seems to be more rigourous than just the basic foods. Also none of them have shown up in any recalls………….yet, they are Newmans, By nature by Blue Seal, and Castor and Pollux with treats being made also by Castor and Pollux also organic.

  73. Garyn says:

    HalM, it would seem that Veronica is vying for the worst public relations representative award. Let’s see. How can we instill confidence in our company and in the safety of our product.

    First, when a concerned customer calls, be as rude as possible and make very sure that you hang up on them while they are still talking. Even though the customer’s pet is acting ill and the customer is clearly afraid that the food may be the culprit, hang up on them anyway.

    If they ask a question that you can’t or don’t want to answer just say I will not debate this with you.

    Make sure you call all customers who post on ITCHMO liars without pointing to the specific information that you believe is untrue.

    Next, exclaim to all pet owners on the internet that you are going to start using ingredients from China, knowing that most pet owners will not purchase a product with ingredients from China and that clearly they do not want Chinese ingredients because … well… Chinese ingredients killed and sickened tens of thousands of pets.

    Then make very sure that you contradict information regarding the source of ingredients given by other representatives.

    Well done Veronica. You win the worst representative award of the century.

    Unbelievable arrogance from these people. It is shameful.

  74. Roberto P. says:

    5CatMom,
    My wife does the homecooking for our cats. Will ask her to post when she gets back. We get chicken hearts from our grocery store. We’ve gotten to know the manager very well and when the whole organic or free range (no antibiotic or hormones) chickens come in, they cut some of them up. He is giving us the heart/liver/gizzard/neck packs for free because they throw them out. We had gotten Japanese taurine, but will evetually switch over to the organic hearts. As dopey as it sounds, we grow parsley in containers in the house, in case the cats feel a need to chew greens. (They do sometimes.) Anyway, I’ve already gotten too long-winded. Let me talk to my wife.

  75. Big Fat Momma Cat says:

    Hi 5CatMom.
    Here is a crowd pleaser at my house. They LOVE IT and eat every bit; even (especially) the picky ones.

    House Favorite Fish and Clams

    1 15 oz can White Fish
    1 6 oz can Tuna Fish
    1 6 oz can Clams
    1 tbsp Bone Meal
    1/4 dash non-salt
    1 tsp Fish Oil

    Chop up the Clams as needed. Mix it all up. So Simple! :) (You could feed just the meats without the supliments as an occasional treat if you like)
    If you want, you can add about a tbsp of chopped spinach or green beans for carbs.

    Stormy’s Super Senior Supper also uses Clams. You can find it at my site: http://www.homecookingpetfoodr.....upper.aspx

  76. purringfur says:

    I’m calling for Mr. Atkins of Natura Pet to test the individual black and white specks of material from Donna’s sample at Expertox and to publish a scan of the lab results. Anyone else?

  77. 5CatMom says:

    Thanks for the great info everyone.

    Homegrown, great link on Taurine last night.

    RobertoP, thanks for the tip on the hearts/liver, etc. package. Look forward to hearing from your wife.

    I was just over at the forums and JustMe has created a subject for homecooking and raw brands for cats. That’s excellent!

    I’m not great in the forums as I seem to get lost, but will do my best. Guess it’s time for 5CatMom to learn some new tricks. LOL.

    This link (I hope) will get you to the new cat homecooking/raw subject:

    http://itchmoforums.com/cat-fo.....and-b75.0/

  78. 5CatMom says:

    Big Fat Momma Cat,

    Thanks. That sounds yummy. I’ll give it a try.

  79. straybaby says:

    Lesliek says:
    July 25th, 2007 at 9:22 am

    EEP! I take that back! mixed up my seafood :) my Sardines are from Scotland and the Clams are wild caught from Thailand. Crown Prince is the brand.

    Crown Prince Whole Baby Clams. Packed in water and Citric Acid . They were the *cleanest* ones I could find. I’ve started doing all my searching for foods on line so I can compare labels and search parent companies etc. if there isn’t a fresh option. The sardines don’t contain Citric Acid, just water and are also wild caught. The whole clams need to be chopped, but all the minced and chopped ones i found that were somewhat affordable had other stuff in them like the MSG. They also do Alaskan Salmon that is packed in water. I buy all 3 by the case on sale when I can. Another Brand to look at is Seasons. They have water packed/no salt, but from Morocco. I discovered you have to look at each variety in the brand as it varies by product. Royal PIA trying to keep them all straight! I decided on going outside the US if I could find less additives was OK for me, even though my original goal was to stay US made. If I didn’t have 5 cats, I would consider the day boat ones as they don’t need that much, but with multiple cats, have to consider options :-/

  80. E. Hamilton says:

    The pet food companies, the PFI and the FDA have been on this site reading EVERY DAY-I do give a teensy bit of credit to the CEO who had the stones to actually post under a true name or affiliation because some of the posters in the early days were PAID to post nice things about certain brands in an attempt by the pet food companies to fool us.

    NO pet food company that is a member of the PFI can be trusted.

    Get the food tested, tell the truth about how many pets died, PAY THE VET BILLS!!!!, get out of the PFI and then, MAYBE, pet parents will start to trust again. Of course, after all these months of lies and cover up, maybe they won’t.
    I tell people EVERY DAY about the lies and the cover up, I print out the news that the media won’t cover and PEOPLE WANT THE TRUTH, every misstated death toll, minimizing attempt or new ad COSTS THE PET FOOD INDUSTRY A LOT OF CREDIBILITY and they do not have it to lose.

    Remember to scream “lying bastids” , or some version thereof, at every TV ad for pet food that you see!
    Make sure all the children or teenagers you know are aware of WHY this is done. They enjoy telling their friends about the lying pet food companies and I heard an astonishing conversation about pet food between two 15 year olds last week and they went to the net to research, and I heard the phrase “so you can’t trust ANY of them, I guess, they all lie!” and then they looked at homecooking info!

  81. Big Fat Momma Cat says:

    5CatMom, Your Welcome!

    Thank you! I added it to the site! Find it here:

    http://www.homecookingpetfoodr.....clams.aspx

  82. Roberto P. says:

    E. don’t forget the senior citizens. My wife is at the library helping the senior program. The librarian asked her to come in and help them research pet food on the net. IE can be set to large type, and there ya go.

  83. Ingrid says:

    Here is Natura’s Atkins (Peter Atkins is one of the three founders and owners) reply: I think it is pretty clear. Three different labs - all negative. Does “Donna” work for PETA? :-)

    Finally, the test results. Samples of both the retained samples of the actual production run for Donna’s food (the retain sample is a composite of the entire production run and does include a representative sample of Donna’s food, including a sample taken directly in the middle of the two samples that she sent us - i.e. Donna’s samples were stamped 2019 and 2022; our retain is time stamped 2021) and the premix used in that production was sent to two different laboratories for testing. As expected, both tests have come back negative for acetaminophen contamination. Please follow this link for scans of the results including the test for cyanuric acid and melamine:

    http://www.naturapet.com/about.....esults.asp

    It is important that I apologize to all of our loyal customers, employees, retailers and, yes, even Donna for not handling this situation better. Until I spoke with Donna on June 13th, Natura did not have knowledge of her Expertox test results. After speaking with her, I directed that the samples that she sent us be tested at another lab for melamine, cyanuric acid and acetaminophen (note the date on the Midwest Laboratories test result link and you can see that immediate action was taken). However, it was more difficult to find laboratories that could test for acetaminophen; and once we settled on the UC Davis and Expertox labs, we learned that they were backed-up and our test requests could take several weeks to complete. During that time I was traveling on business and neglected to make the effort needed to make sure that Donna was kept in the loop and informed of these testing delays.

    Natura is, always has been, and will continue to be committed to making the healthiest pet foods in the world. I hope that these independent laboratory analyses will address your concerns and validate that our foods are in no way harmful to your pets.

    ———
    More likely to be attention seeking behavior. How likely would it be that you would send a dogfood sample to a testing facility that could handle tylenol testing unless you knew what to ask them to test for? Testing for all known toxins is prohibitively expensive. When submitting specimens for testing, you have to tell the testing facility what group of toxins to look for. You can’t say “just test for everything” - that would involve thousands of tests - all expensive. No this specimen had to be submitted for testing for tylenol and possibly a few others. Tylenol would NOT be found in a food processing plant unless added deliberately. It could be found in almost any home and added deliberately. (Very easy to do - just a drop of liquid tylenol on the kibbles.) We see this kind of behavior occasionally in the emergency room, a kind of “Munchausen by proxy”, but in this case of pets.

    ITCHMO ADMIN: Ingrid, Donna was NOT the first person who requested acetaminophen testing in pet food. In fact, according to the lab ExperTox 4 other samples have turned up positive for acetaminophen — from different people. I’ve had pet food tested for acetaminophen as well — and I don’t consider myself mentally ill. There are two reasonable possibilities as to why Tylenol is in pet food given these facts: 1) An ingredient in the pet food supply may be tainted in small batches or 2) the lab result is incorrect.

    I highly recommend that you do some more research on this topic before posting. And I am pretty sure you owe Donna an apology — as Peter Atkins stated himself.

  84. Lorna says:

    Lesleik said,”Beth-My chi had trouble on a different food. He was very hesitant to jump up onto laps/furniture & walk up steps.Never found out what it was.”

    Leslie,that *can* be a sign of tummy discomfort.The stretch required to jump up and down maybe?
    Often, too, pets with tummy aches will hunch their backs and/or drag their hind legs a bit.
    OF COURSE these symptoms can indicte other things as well but tummy is one.

    Lorna

  85. Anonymous says:

    Careful, Ingrid. Calling someone mentally ill in print with no basis, (and as far as I know, no one can diagnose that disorder over the internet) constitues libel. I think the administrator needs to step in here.

  86. straybaby says:

    Ingrid says:
    July 25th, 2007 at 11:37 am

    you may want to check the history of this issue. if i’m not mistaken, she had it tested based on results from other’s having food tested and their findings.

    would you like to explain the black substance?

  87. Trudy Jackson says:

    Hello, thank You all for the info you sent. I’m going over all of it now. I really appreciate this. I do have a multi-multi cat household. But only one cat with dialated cardiomyopothy. thank goodness.

  88. 5CatMom says:

    Ingrid,

    If you go back through the archives and read the posts from loyal bloggers, you’ll get the spirit of what goes on here, and it’s not what you suggested.

    Natura should test the BITS in the samples Donna sent to them and try to confirm (or not) her findings. That seems pretty simple.

    Also, it’s not hard to explain how feedstuffs (vitamin premix, or whatever) may have been tainted with acetaminophen. Remember that 600 million bottle recall last year? Wonder where all those pills went?

    I called FDA and the company and NO ONE wants to talk.

    So I have a theory: The US pet food industry has become a toxic dump for the world’s supply of tainted ingredients.

    I need to apply the Scientific Method and test my theory. This requires data. Test data. Lots of test data.

    And therein lies the problem. US pet food companies don’t perform adequate testing - they seem to prefer the “garbage in - garbage out” approach; the FDA is useless; and when a food questioned (as Donna has done), the company involved won’t cooperate by taking a logical approach to solving the problem.

    Maybe you can help us out.

  89. bw says:

    OH MY INGRID!! >>We see this kind of behavior occasionally in the emergency room, a kind of “Munchausen by proxy”, but in this case of pets.

  90. 5CatMom says:

    Ingrid,

    Forgot to add,

    When I worked in the manufacturing sector, our products were heavily regulated by either FDA or FAA.

    When a customer had an instrument malfunction, the first thing our QA department wanted to do was to get the product in their hands and try to duplicate the mode of failure. If the mode of failure could be analyzed, then an engineering solution could be developed.

    We didn’t go and get a brand new box from the stock room, run a few tests and conclude that the customer was a yo-yo.

    People’s lives depended on the safety and reliability of our products, so we wanted to understand and to explain what the customer had experienced. If there was a design error, we wanted to correct it.

    Running away from a problem only leads to more problems. That’s what the PF companies don’t understand.

  91. Roberto P. says:

    Straybaby,
    Sounds familiar. My wife used to work for a biomedical firm. They made medical instrumentation. Every time they changed vendors for whatever part in the instruments, they put that vendor through absolute hell to prove it was safe. It took more than just a piece of paper. And when a system was returned, holy God, my wife would work OT for weeks to get to the bottom of the problem. They never ran 2 tests, then said their customers were crazy. I always assumed the food industry was the same. Stupid me.

  92. Roberto P. says:

    Sorry goofed, meant 5catmom

  93. 5CatMom says:

    Roberto P.,

    Right you are.

    That’s the difference between a regulated industry and one that claims to be.

    I’ve learned that whatever so-called regulation exists in the PF industry is a figment of imagination.

  94. Judy says:

    Ingrid Who do you work for?

    I don’t know Donna personally but I don’t believe for a second that she went to all this trouble and expense to make herself look important. Why don’t you check your facts before you start name calling. And check the archives and you might just find this is not the first case of “Tylenol” found by a lab in pet food.

  95. Ruth says:

    Hmmm……..Ingrid,Veronica………Veronica,Ingrid…….enough said…….

  96. thomas says:

    I beleive and trust Donna .

  97. Ellen says:

    Try Evanger’s - it’s supervised and koshered by the Chicago Rabbinical Council–and they absolutely would not use ANYTHING from China. They use 100% whole food and have a very broad variety. You an order online, also.

  98. Roberto P. says:

    Absolutely, thomas. I laud Donna for her courage. I don’t know how she does it.
    And I guess that I was so naive that I didn’t realize the pet food companies were the garbage disposal for the food and pharma industries. The companies could burn their garbage, but the stockholders like it when they sell it to pet food companies. And pet food companies like that they can pass garbage off as premium. Now they are attacking the customers, because we no longer believe them. That really helps their credibility.
    To quote the Who: “We won’t get fooled again!”

  99. purringfur says:

    Thank you, Itchmo, for stepping in on Ingrid’s post above concerning Donna. Perhaps Ingrid just joined the blog and didn’t have the background on the acetaminophen issue to know that OTHER PET OWNERS paid to have their food tested, and the samples came back POSITIVE FOR ACETAMINOPHEN. For Ingrid to suggest a diagnosis of Munchauesen via a blog is unfair.

    Donna, you’re pursuing this in a highly professional, courageous manner, and you deserve to be commended for your efforts and financial output to get to the truth. I applaud you!

    Itchmo: And thanks for providing us with the latest news, this blog and the forums. You’ve saved many, many lives.

  100. 5CatMom says:

    Just got off the phone with Troy at Ranch Foods Direct in Colorado.

    Ranch Foods has been in business for 6 years and they already offer a few meat items for pet owners.

    http://www.ranchfoodsdirectsho.....174786.htm

    They are willing to consider creating additional items for pet owners such as 1# packages of mixed meats with some bones and organs all ground up.

    Troy asked me to send him an email and let him know what we need.

    So maybe this is a start. I’ve bought frozen raw food at the pet food stores and it was gross.

  101. Aurora says:

    This is all very frustrating to hear. About two months ago my dog became very ill after buying a new bag of nutro. I had used Nutro the entire time we’ve had my dog and knew that it’s dry food had never been mentioned in the recall. I mistakingly felt very comfortable with their products. After taking her off the food for 36 hours (doctor recommended) she started to get better, but I had the task during that time of trying to find a suitable replacement. After researching all of the companies carried at a local natural food pet store, doing taste tests of the samples they provided, and going through each ingredient in their foods one by one on dogfoodanalysis dot com, I believed Innova to be the best for my dog. Now hearing this news makes me at a loss of what to do next. I believe this batch to be good that I’m feeding her right now as she’s shown no signs of illness so I’ll continue to feed it to her. Honestly though, if you can ‘t trust a company like Innova, then really who can you trust? I hardly have the time to cook for myself, nevermind my dog, but if that’s what it has to take to build my confidence in her diet then I will. I’m just at a complete loss of how to make it balanced for her.

  102. 5CatMom says:

    Need to correct an error I made in a post earlier today. I was referring to last year’s acetaminophen recall and typed in “600 million bottles”.

    The correct amount is 11 million bottles. Very sorry for my error. It must be time for a break!

    http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/.....01507.html
    http://www.insurancejournal.co...../74206.htm

  103. Ruth says:

    5CatMom: I read both of the articles. I wonder what Perrigo did with the recalled acetaminophen?

  104. 5CatMom says:

    Ruth,

    My thoughts exactly. Seems like a simple question, doesn’t it?

    Anyway, I just left them a voice mail message, so maybe they’ll call me tomorrow.

  105. ~Martha~ says:

    We cannot all afford to have the pet foods we serve tested, but, as Donna points out we can pay attention to what our pets are trying to tell us about that food.

    There are many messages to and from Donna on the itchmoforum board … however, something happened to the site today that makes my browser unable to post or send PM’s on that site. If anyone posts to Donna today, I would appreciate it if you might let her know why I am unable to post to her there (as well as others on the site) myself.

    ~Martha~
    (I do not know if this is a permnant problem.)

  106. Val says:

    I had some Innova puppy food tested by Natura, my first mistake, I should have had it done on my own, at least I’d get the whole truth, and they found bright green specs of PLASTIC in my puppy’s food! She has had a number of health problems, and they want to just give me a new bag of food. I am very dissatisfied. And today she has thrown up 4 times! I need to start cooking human food for her, this is ridiculous.

  107. John says:

    Val, I think plastic is now part of the AAFCO standard.

  108. Trudy Jackson says:

    I do to. I found black plastic in My cat food.

  109. shibadiva says:

    Someone needs to slow down the production line and fish out that plastic that’s not supposed to be in there.

    If this were baby food, there would be hell to pay.

    But the plastic is the tip of the iceberg; at least you can see it. Someone commented earlier that “the pet food companies were the garbage disposal for the food and pharma industries”,

    Cut out the middle man.

  110. Lesliek says:

    Ingriddd- In case you are not aware,when you see something in the pf that in not food you send it in to be tested for unknown toxins. They keep testing til they find out what it is. I know this because I had it done.The reason people use ExperTox is they set their test parameters lower & checked to make sure they could detect the toxins at that level.Contrary to what other people are saying that doesn’t cause false positive results,but could cause false negative results.And if this lab is so bad;why do the fed govt & Texas state govt use them. They are also certified by the FDA. As for Donna ;what does she have to gain ? She is not trying to get any money from Natura. She just wants answers. As do we all.I think you should do a little research before commenting.

  111. Lesliek says:

    Lorna- Thank you. He was bloated in the upper abdomin area. The vet exam didn’t show anything specific. The urine & blood tests showed strange T4 & liver #’s. The vet didn’t check for crystals or casts before sending the urine to the lab. I tried to have it redone twice & they did the wrong test. He showed total improvement after being off the Evangers for 2 days. I still have to have him retested. Right now we’re doing his big brother[lab/mix]. He’s leaking urine. Wish I had the money to test all of them & all foods,but I don’t. So we are on all homemade. It may not be perfect vitamin wise but it isn’t toxic !

  112. MaineMom says:

    Aurora - Go to kumpi.com and check out Evy’s test results on her foods or call her (303-693-6533). Foods are shipped by FedEX very quickly and definitely worth the cost in peace of mind.

  113. Suzanna says:

    So, what’s the best dry cat/kitten kibble food out there??? I’ve read so many posts about this but I couldn’t keep up with the BEST and not “complained” about dry kibbles for cats. Please share experiences. Thanks!

  114. Ingrid says:

    Those results were not posted by the CEO of Natura in our forums, but rather by ME!!!

    Please keep your facts straight on this. I have used Natura foods for years and they have been just excellent. I don’t feel comfortable with their name being smeared without any proof.

    Acetaminophen has no way of fnding itself into dog food! A physician I know writes:

    “Tylenol is never used in animal husbandry or veterinary medicine, and would have to be added deliberately to animal food rather than being a “collateral” contaminant. I can understand barbs, antibiotics, pesticides, defoliants, fertilizers, various vegetable toxins and botulism, but not Tylenol.

  115. Suzanna says:

    Ingrid,

    I also used Natura foods for years for my 2 dogs and they were good until the new year of 2007!!! Then everything went downhill! Something in the food was compromised. Everything I have read by other posters indicated the same symptoms my dogs had. Lethargy; incontinence; vomiting; disorientation, etc. Call it what you will . . . but there was something NOT RIGHT in the food. My Vet gave my dog a clean bill of health after a physical and a complete blood work, however, in a few weeks her kidney values went off the charts according to my Vet and even he was surprised. We had to put her to sleep because of it.

    I’ll be having 2 independent labs work done on the food that I miraculously saved. We’ll see then what you have to say.

  116. HomeGrown says:

    I urge all to watch this webcast on the US-China Trade Relations. There are some Senators who have wrong information about the pet food recalls and who need to hear from us again! Here is the link:

    http://commerce.senate.gov/pub.....ng_ID=1890

  117. John says:

    Ingrid, that’s exactly what people said about melamine.

  118. 5CatMom says:

    Suzanna,

    Does your food have those bits like Donna’s food has? If so, are you having the just the bits tested, or the bits imbedded in the food?

  119. Karen says:

    I decided a few months ago to switch to Innova as the ingredients seemed so healthy. I had gone through 5-6 bags and had no problems what so ever. On my 7th bag it smelled soured and the kibbles were 2 different colors. I took that bag back to the store, and they gave me a bag from a different lot number. My dogs all had very loose stools and were vomiting with the bag I had returned. The next bag smelled the same and I had the same problems. Took that bag back and they gave me a bag of Evo. No problems with it at all bit am in the process of finding anther food to feed. I had contacted Natura about the problem and they sent me a form to fill out and return. Have heard nothing so far. Very upsetting as I thought I was feeding them good food only to make them all sick.

  120. Don Earl says:

    RE: Acetaminophen testing.

    I agree with Itchmo. A bit of research is indeed waranted.

    First of all, ExperTox has unknown toxin/substance scan capabilities, does in fact scan for thousands of substances, and is able to offer the service quite economically. If one is going to question anything in this matter, the question should be: With this technology available, why isn’t it standard throughout the food industry?

    The simple answer to that question involves premeditated ignorance. With very few exceptions of the niche market variety, pet food is made from recycled garbage. There is a waste disposal problem of epic proportions created by 300 million hungry Americans. After decades of multi billion dollar Madison Avenue advertising campaigns, we have been convinced to solve the problem by feeding this recycled slaughter house waste and otherwise inedible garbage to our pets.

    The pet food companies do not run unknown toxin scans on the resulting sludge that goes into the cans and bags they sell because they already know what they will find. By not running the tests, they try to hold themselves to a lower level of liability. For them, they see it as the difference between simple negligence, and reckless disregard and/or criminal conduct.

    According to the CDC, over 300,000 Americans are hospitalized every year due to food born illness. 5,000 of them die. That’s comparable to jet airliners crashing into the World Trade Center every six months!!!

    It isn’t China dear. It’s good old money grubbing corporate America that’s the problem.

    Getting back to the tests, having isolated target substances through the unknown toxin scan, it is then possible use additional protocols to isolate the target substance and confirm its presence. In other words, acetaminophen was found, and then double checked to confirm. It might be possible to get a false negative, but positive results are reliable.

    There are any number of scenarios that could explain its presence, but with the FDA cover up in full swing, any speculation along those lines is just that; speculation. You can get as creative as your imagination allows, from a disgruntled employee tossing in a bottle of pills into a vat, to International terrorism.

    My two personal favorites are rendered lab animals, or illegal spiking of product with cyanuric acid that was cross contaminated with acetaminophen or mislabeled. Are those good guesses? Damned if I know.

    What I do know is lab tests and my dead cat confirmed that unopened cans of cat food were poisoned with acetaminophen.

    That the problem has been indentified in numerous brands suggests to me it is or was wide spread, and is most likely the source of the 4 months long pet food massacre. All of the symptoms fit, including the fact acetaminophen is orders of magnitude more lethal to cats than it is to dogs.

    This Atkins person disgusts me. At the same time, I must say I’m delighted to see him so publicly showing his true colors, and letting his ego make of him a subject of well deserved ridicule. He quite obviously views pets and their owners with contempt, and considers us too dull to see through his slick rhetoric.

    Would you buy a used car from this man?

    I think not.

  121. Ann H says:

    Ingrid says: July 25th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    Ingrid, I believe you are using unsupported quotes as “facts”.

    Usage of acetaminophen in veterinary medicine- It’s used. Dogs, Rabbits, Mice, Rats, Guinea Pigs, non-human primates.

    I hope your posts and your quoted persons of supposed knowledge are not representative of the acuity of the university. Actually, I’m appalled at your posts and it is my firm opinion that you are showing that acuity may well be lacking.

    One quick check rebuts you/your sources basis of argument:

    http://www.ahc.umn.edu/rar/umn.....taminophen

    Acetaminophen
    NSAID with minimal anti-platelet activity. Toxic in cats. Drinking water route has not been demonstrated to be efficacious in rats and mice.
    Dog, nonhuman primate Guinea Pig, rabbit…..
    and there you will find the dosage.

  122. Donna Z. says:

    This topic is making me sick to my stomach–literally. There WAS a time when there was NO petfood. Obviously, people made it themselves or the pets ate scraps. Since we all want the very best nutrition for our pets, we leave the job of making pet food up to the so-called experts.

    Can someone tell me if it is a nutritionally viable alternative to make my own dog or cat food? Where can I learn how to do this? Because if I CAN do this, I WANT to do this!

  123. Sandy says:

    I still give him credit for posting and posting the test results. Sure I WISH he had tested the premix and Donna’s sample.

    The thing is if he did and her sample came back OK clear of all toxins by the same lab…WHAT THEN? We would all call him a liar … I would think he would feel damned if he did and damned if he didn’t post it.

    What if the lab was wrong in Donna’s report?? I doubt it is but am trying to show WHY his lawyers MAY have told him not to report any results on her sample….

    Will I feed the food from Natura?…I doubt it and if so it will be with Evangers to cut down on the amount my dog eats…of Nautura’s foods until they do MORE testing.

    Still they did do more than ANY other company as to lab reports and posting…..Still they creep me out

  124. mary says:

    first it was Iams dry,then science diet now innova,that these labs are saying has this stuff in it. I’m very upset because at this point i don’t know what the hell to feed my dogs. everyone is saying stay away from nutro,stay away from this food that food. the vet’s are telling us not to make home made food. i got the pups on cal. natural they love it. what state does Donna live in? i remember the Iams food came from denver that was tested bad. I’AM ONE SCARED PET OWNER !!!!

  125. John says:

    I’ll be switching my dog over to The Honest Kitchen, and we’ll see how it goes. All human-grade ingredients, all US-sourced ingredients, and it looks and smells great.

  126. 5CatMom says:

    Donna Z.,

    Call me crazy, but I believe that making nutritious home prepared food is possible.

    All you have to do is identify the nutritional requirements, and then deliver the requirements. LOL.

    After all, if the PF companies are doing it, how tough can it be?

    JustMe created subjects in the forums. See link:

    http://itchmoforums.com/cat-fo.....353.0.html

    We could exchange recipes, publish a cookbook, maybe even start a PF company.

    I’m betting that the ITCHMO gang is up to the task.

  127. Carol says:

    Ingrid says:

    July 25th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
    Those results were not posted by the CEO of Natura in our forums, but rather by ME!!!

    I’m rather confused—does this poster mean he/she used Atkins name and posted the “results” and it was not his words??? If that’s the case, is that legal? it certainly is dishonest and immoral if that posting was not done by whose name is on it!
    Itchmo — what do you think—we who have been here for months deserve to know if this response was a fake!!! Thanks

  128. Anonymous says:

    I believe Ingrid is a troll.
    After the last 6-8 mo. (tip of the iceberg), my BS detector is my best guide.
    TROLL.
    How about yours?

  129. Anonymous says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    a troll is someone who intentionally posts messages about sensitive topics constructed to cause controversy in an online community such as an online discussion forum or USENET groups in order to bait users into responding.[1] They may also plant images and data on networks that others may find disturbing in order to cause confrontation.

  130. Halm says:

    It seems that Atkins has a different story for different forums. According to the statement posted here on Itchmo, Natura DIDN’T test samples sent in by Donna.
    ” The sample of dog food sent in by Donna in May to Natura was not tested.” - Itchmo

    According to this posting on another pet forum, Natura DID test samples sent in by Donna.

    “Natura tested both samples from Donna as well as retains of the premix used in that production run for melamine and cyanuric acid. All three came back negative (see the Midwest Lab test report). We also sent representative samples of the production run of Donna’s food for additional testing at UC Davis and Expertox; all of which came back negative.” - http://www.ourdogsonline.com/u.....Post125393

    So…did they or didn’t they test the customer samples?

    Atkins says that the specks and chunks in question are undisolved vitamin premix in the Itchmo article:

    “Natura’s CEO said that the specks in the dog food are vitamin mineral premixes that did not dissolve during the manufacturing process — something Atkins said was “very uncommon”. He also added that the amounts of vitamins found in the kibble should not present any problems for pets.”

    and that this was “very uncommon”

    Here he says:

    “If you’ve seen our food over time, you know that it is normal for some of the bigger pieces of the raw materials that we use to end-up being visible in the final product. Because our formulas include whole foods and grains, occasionally some larger pieces can make it through the process and appear in the finished kibbles. So, from time to time we do see larger pieces of brown rice, oats, flaxseed, chicken and turkey bones (remember that chicken meal and turkey meal contains the lean tissue and some bone and cartilage material), carrots, alfalfa sprouts, apple seeds, and on rarer occasions vitamin/mineral premix. This is normal and certainly not harmful in any way.” - http://www.ourdogsonline.com/u.....Post125393

    Again, which is it…Normal or uncommon?

    Finally, does Natura use vitamins manufactured in China?

    One answer is here in the Itchm article:

    “He added that Natura no longer sources any ingredients from China.” -Itchmo.

    This seems to indicate that at one time Natura used Chinese ingredients and has now stopped.

    In a recent call to Natura, I was told that they are not using Chinese vitamins, but will begin to do so in the future.

    It would certainly be refreshing to get a straight answer from these people, instead of the corporate bullshit that seems to be the standard method of dealing with customer concerns.

    One more point….

    While I doon’t know for sure, my guess is that the reason for using Chinese ingredients is cost. Lets see….buy unsafe Chinese crap and save a few cents on every bag we produce. Wonderful…nevermind how many pets may sicken or die from our corporate greed.

    I would GLADLY pay a higher price for my pet food…IF it was guaranteed to be produced with SAFE, WHOLSOME, U.S. PRODUCED, INSPECTED and CERTIFIED ingredients. Not crap from China or wherever. These companies, Natura included, do not have to cut costs in order to see a profitable bottom line. A few cents…or a few dollars….more for a wholsome product, produced by and honest company, certainly would not be an issue with the vast majority of pet owners.

    Too bad these money-grubbing bastards don’t seem to understand that simple concept!

  131. Donna Z. says:

    5catmom,

    Thank you for the forum link. I just discovered Itchmo yesterday and am now becoming aware of all the wonderful info that is found here!

    Don Earl,

    Amen. I know that certain entities (Big Pharma, FDA, CDC, etc.) cannot be trusted with the health of me and my children (I learned this the hard way), so what can we expect when it comes to the health of our beloved pets?!

  132. LaLa Florida says:

    I was just wondering why all the dog food companies seem to be using Midwest Labs for testing. This is not a kwinky dink for sure. Makes me wonder…………………

  133. Ann H says:

    >>

    Halm,
    It’s really important to read the lab test reports.
    It will tell you what they tested, what they tested for and the limits.

    Midwest report did NOT say it tested for acetaminophen.
    Midwest LIMIT is 10ppm.

    Anything less and they will NOT find it.

    So, with no acetaminophen test at Midwest what do you think the truth is?

    The amount for acetaminophen was “trace” at Expertox.

    Off the top of my head I cannot remember the amount of cyanuric acid that was found with the acetaminophen…compare the natura reports to

    http://www.petfoodrecallfacts.com/

    What you most likely will question, since they seem to depend on Midwest for their testing–

    IS under 10ppm is a SAFE amount of cyanuric acid and melamine to be in the pet food????????????????

    Since that combination produced crystals in cat urine according to the University of Guelph, and was well documented, I wouldn’t begin to feed this again to [bold]my [/bold]cats - because I don’t want ANY in my pet food.

    So, make sure you read and compare, because things are getting twisted and IMO, they are depending on people reading and not really looking at the details.

  134. LaLa Florida says:

    I think Natura is full of bullchit. They advised me about a month ago that they test for cyanuric acid and acetaminophen at their on site lab (at least that is what the trained customer service rep told me.

  135. Ann H says:

    In house lab? That is the first reference I’ve read. Has anyone confirmed that?

    Basically, I think if you print the reports out, Natura’s and Donna’s and really look, you’ll have more insight.

    Regardless, the 10ppm for cyanuric acid and melamine did me in as a customer.

  136. 5CatMom says:

    Note to Natura: When you source ingredients from China (or elsewhere), you MUST do your own testing. Certificates are no substitute for rigorous in house QA procedures.

    Natura is history for my crew. In fact (except for Kumpi), US pet food companies are history.

    This afternoon, I called ORIJEN (646/415-8964) and spoke with Peter. Chinese taurine is not an issue because, according to Peter, their cat food contains sufficient levels due to the ingredients that are used. They test the taurine levels (but you should confirm this yourself).

    This food is made in Canada by Orijen.

    Just got off the phone with K9Cuisine, and ordered a bag of ORIJEN cat food. I couldn’t find the cat food on the website, so I called the toll free number: 866/919-2415.

    Here’s a link:
    http://www.k9cuisine.com/contact.aspx

    ———————————————————————————-
    Just a reminder: It’s important to know your cat’s health status before making diet changes. Please check with your vet before changing foods as the high protein no-grain foods may not be the best choice for elderly cats, or cats with kidney disease.

  137. 5CatMom says:

    Here’re links to the Natura lab reports from Naturapet website:

    http://www.naturapet.com/image.....tories.pdf

    http://www.naturapet.com/image.....CDavis.pdf

    http://www.naturapet.com/image.....pertox.pdf

  138. Ann H says:

    5Catmom… 2 of my cats do like Orijen and I’ve had not a single problem. It is one of the alternates I used to EVO.

    Nature’s Logic doesn’t add supplements and depends on their ingredients for the vitamins too.

    So, now I can feel better about rotating the Orijen & Nature’s Logic. (yup. check with the vet mine said the source of protein was also very important not just the amount of protein..and she recommended infant vitamins for my sick kid)

    The best thing that has happened all week is that my sick kid accepted Nature’s Logic rabbit :) I could have danced last nite.. and the bowl was empty this morning when I went to give them their wet breakfast!!

  139. 5CatMom says:

    Ann H,

    Good for your kitty. Such makes you feel good when they’re interested in their food, doesn’t it? Hope he gets well.

    Yes, that Nature’s Logic looks good to me too, but I haven’t had time to call them.

    Just cooked up some stuff for my gang and they really enjoyed it. Lots of slurping all around. No idea how complete it is, just a few chicken livers with some brown rice, veggies and homemade chicken stock.

    Will consult with a vet nutritionist next week and try to get smarter about the home cooking.

    About Natura’s testing. I’m getting confused about what’s been tested. Don’t they still need to test the BITS like Donna did?

  140. Suzanna says:

    Ann H,

    I’m so glad to hear your sick kid accepted Nature’s Logic rabbit! I know how good the feeling is when our babies eat the food we give them!!! Please let us know how your kitty does. It’s one thing when they like something to eat that’s made commercially . . . but it’s another thing if they do well on it. I sincerely hope your kitty does great. Keep us posted!

    My kitten has been eating raw with supplements from www.felinefuture.com, but their customer service sucks in a big way, so I’ll be making the recipe from www.catnutrition.org from now on. My kitten is so doing great … all her allergies are gone.

  141. Suzanna says:

    Just to clarify . . .

    Feline Future makes the same recipe (a dry supplement) that is outlined at CatNutrition.org, but FF uses dehydrated liver and adds gelatine instead of bones. In my opinion, the recipe on CatNutrition.org is much better and I’m ordering my meat grinder as soon as we get our bonus check from work!

  142. Takami826 says:

    does this include innova evo and california naturals? I finally settled on Evo for the dog and calif naturals for the cat, but if this crap is showing up in regular innova and they’re b s ‘ing about it… what’s left? Merrick needs to come up with a dry cat food already. they were supposed to but… guess I’m switching to merrick and dumping my stock up of evo and calif naturals tonite.

    I haven’t seen anything negative with either the dog or the cat, but I’m not taking any chances.

  143. 5CatMom says:

    Would like to see this very important topic back on the front page as Natura needs to duplicate Donna’s testing on the BITS.

  144. ritchie says:

    I am a breeder out in victoria and have been using innova for a long time…i have noticed by dogs have been shying away from the food….just recently a couple of them have been sick…at that point I checked the food after many vet visits…i see the black crystals in the kibble too…..i have spent thousands of dollars….i will never use Innova again

  145. 5CatMom says:

    Hi ritchie,

    Are you new here? Welcome, and thanks for your post.

    There’s a thread in the forums “Problems w/Innova and Test Results” that is active right now. It’s up to page 58!

    Here’s the link:

    http://www.itchmoforums.com/ne.....g17633#new

    Sounds like your experiences would be very helpful to know about.

    Of course, you can post either place, but the traffic here is down since the headline left the front page.

    Regarding ITCHMO’s forums, there’s tons of other info as well. Here’s a link to the main menu:

    http://www.itchmoforums.com/

  146. Ann H says:

    Here’s a link to a recap of stuff that was questioned (it’s on pg 43 but has been updated periodically as information developed):

    http://itchmoforums.com/news-r.....2#msg15902

  147. JA says:

    Someone said on one of these forums that there should be posted test results on Natura’s website which confirmed testing of their pet food product, I too was very concerned, after doing some research and the fact that the food has no grain, seemed to be a top notch pet food…..I did go to Natura’s website and if you click on About Us and then to the left click on Manufacturing you can click on and read all three test reports from Midwest Labs, another lab(sorry, don’t remember) and finally Expertox. These lab test results seem to be confirming NO presence of melamine, cyanuric acid, or acetominophen. I also noticed recently their new product bags have a posted white and black sticker with the words 100% guarreented no melamine or cyanuric acid. It would be nice for them to also include no acetominophen since that is what Donna was saying was found in her dog food, I have not seen her report to confirm this? nor have I seen any other reports about Innova or one of their other Natura pet products confirming any toxin found in the food????? I think that the only reason they haven’t updated the bag to say 100% free of acetominophen yet is because they just did the testing for that because of Donna’s web postings. I appreciate the testing that has been done by Natura so far. I don’t see any other dog food or even people food company doing it.

  148. Ann H says:

    JA in the link to the recap is right above your post. You will find where Donna DID compare the Natura tests which they published on the website and her test (which they haven’t posted on their website (grin) ) and info on samples - general kibble and the “chunks”. Along with the pictures, the PAtkins posts and test results.

  149. janet says:

    Wow, I have fed our dogs on Natura’s other brand California Dog for several years now. But we only do the dry, and this has me really worried. I will now examine kibbles more carefully. This angers me, after trying like hell to convert our cat to this brand too, it no longer is safe either? argh.

  150. Robert Davis says:

    Can they certify that their pre-mix or suppliments do not come from China? Not just “not sourced from China” since we all know you can source from a US company that gets a pre-mix with ingredients from China.

    There are not very many companies that provide the pre-mix and from my understanding there are very few if only 1 that can certify their pre-mix not to come from China and as far as I know they don’t provide the pre-mix to this company. I could be wrong in my assumption, but I would like some clarity on this source vs. certification on the ingredients - those are two different things.

  151. Jill Taylor says:

    My present dogs (basenjis) have been on Innova kibble for 4 years. In Feb, 2008, one died of kidney failure. During the summer of 2007, I noticed her coat wasn’t right, but thought she was just shedding her winter undercoat. Guess not. Now, two of my other dogs’s coats are poor. Any new news on Innova kibble? I think I’m going to switch - what should I get??

  152. Wendysue says:

    We lost 2 kitties June and August of 2007 because of the food issues. NOW it is August 2008 and I just found a large hard black chunk of something in the wet Innova Cat food. My cat Benny is dehydrated and won’t eat or go to the bathroom, he even threw up a few times..What the hell is wrong with these pet food companies? We pay a lot for that food and have given them many dollars throughout the years. We love our pets and they are a huge part of my life! Is there something going on because of the war, gas cost, possible food shortage, and over population~ Is there population control going on? What about the MRSA virus that took my mother inlaws life? Millions of people taking prescriptions for all new kinds of ADHD,ADD,(and the list you know goes on)..You can’t do a blood test or anything for those illnesses~they just want to make money off of normal people’s problems that they will do anything to make a buck. Or is it also population control??? Just like Ridalin (however it is spelled). That was found to cause cancer and other problems in the long run. Chemicals are not the answer but cause other problems~especially to a growing child!
    This world is falling apart and we better watch over our families!
    Don’t trust Innova pet food~ Something very sinister is going on!

  153. Jonathan Bober says:

    For over fifteen years i have fed my animals innova dog food. I have never had a bad batch nor had any sign of complications in my pets. not only does it make their coat shine like the sun on a winter morning but it has made them stronger than a bull in heat. i do however have a problem with over feeding of the dogs with evo due to its high protein diet many dogs suffer kidney damage from it after prolonged periods of times.

  154. Kelly says:

    I have been researching info on Evo tonight as both my dogs have been rejecting their food lately — ever since i purchased a new bag of Evo Chicken Small dog bites last week. I masked their food in some chicken broth that i made. They ate it but never finished the bowl. I thought it strange that BOTH of my dogs were rejecting it and were refusing to eat until i remembered the stories i heard a few years ago when dog owners noticed the same thing before the massive recall and sadly all the deaths that followed.. After this i am no longer going to be buying dog food! I usually make organic dog food as a side treat for my dogs on the weekends, but now they are going to be getting homemade everyday. At least i KNOW whats in their food!! I refuse to make my dogs victims!!!

  155. Kelly says:

    Also, why is Acetominophen being found in DOG FOOD???? Call me a Conspiracy Theorist, but there is absolutely NO reason that it should be in Dog Food other than a nefarious plot to kill off our dogs and cats!!!! There IS NO OTHER REASON!!!!

  156. Kenda says:

    After feeding my dog from a new bag of Innova reduced calorie dog food. My dog became violently ill, vomiting and having diarhea for two days. Finally we took her to the vet who put her on IVs to rehydrate her. Nothing other than the food can be pinpointed as towhat caused her sudden illness. After taking her to a specialist and spending $2600.00 worth of vet bills, she seems to be recovering.
    Scary that we almost lost our pet to what we attribute to the food.

  157. Danielle says:

    I am fairly certain there is something in EVO Red Meat Small Bites that has made my dog very ill. How do I get this food tested? There are bits of hard, wire-like substances in this food. I do not think she was able to digest it.

  158. Kris says:

    Well let me add my voice here. We’ve been feeding our dog with innova evo since she was 12 weeks old, she’s now three and a half. We usually change it up and buy a different meat every bag, red meat, chicken, lamb… Well the last bag, chicken, made her sick… She started throwing up at night and had heavy diarrhea… she was also very lethargic…and stop eating her food… Not wanting to force her I bought another bran, placed it in a bowl next to her usual food. She didn’t touch her usual food (innova evo chicken) but engulfed the new food… I trust her to choose the food that is right for her. So now I have great concern that there is a serious problem with innova evo … Hopefully this is an isolated problem… although reading the test result of 2007 posted by Donna, worries me.. If anyone has had a similar experience please post… thx

  159. Patrick says:

    I have a 5 month old Wheaten. Yesterday I switched him from Innova Lamb & Rice puppy to Chicken & Rice large breed puppy. He ate it and seemed to like it. Last night he vomited twice and has diarrhea today. He smells the food and walks away despite always having a very healthy appetite. I thought may be his stomach was sensitive to teh switch. Nt so sure now. Any recommendations on an alternate natural/organic brand?

  160. Arnold says:

    My German Shepherd adult dog (9 years old) has been on Innova since she was 8 weeks. She has always enthusiastically gobbled her food up, never leaving anything in the bowl. Three weeks ago she stopped eating it. I went and bought another bag of the same food, thinking the previous bag may have spoiled or something, but she simply sniffed at it and walked away. $1,200 worth of vet bills and lab-testing later I decide to buy another brand of dog food. Guess what - she is eating again, and is once eating with her normal gusto. So you can’t convince me that there was not something wrong with the food. Will they recall their product? Not if they can get away with not having to. Tina can go on about how wonderful her company is/was, but the fact remains, they all screw up on occasion and want to protect their bottom line - PROFIT - so unless they are caught, they won’t recall a defective product.

  161. Confused in Illinois says:

    My 12 year old silky terrier Pauly has been on Innova senior plus since the Nutro pet food recall a couple of years ago. He was fine until the last bag we opened. I had been mixing Innova dry food with pouches of wet food made by Nutro. He did not eat for 2 days also had diarrhea & vomiting and i discontinued all dog food fed him salmon, peas & brown rice. He was all better so started back on the Innova dry food.(blaming his illness on Nutro wet food)The next day he was ill again, after eating the Innova dry food. Today I read online about problems with Innova! We will be researching and talking with the vet about how to cook for dogs,eliminating all pet foods from his diet.


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