FDA Press Conference
Itchmo liveblogged the 3pm Eastern Time FDA Press Conference. This is not a transcript, but a record of the event.
Here is a summary of today’s FDA press conference: (Press relase is now available on the FDA site)
Recall of ingredient: The source of contamination is within the US and is not related to the pet food recalls. Two companies are recalling their feed ingredients because melamine was used to make livestock and fish feed. The first company called Tembec, Toledo, OH makes Aquabond and Aqua-tec II which is used for fish and shrimp feed. This is used for both domestic use and is exported. The second company called Unisource, Inc., Johnstown, CO makes Xtra-bond which is used for livestock feed and is for domestic use only. Tembec distributes to Unisource. Tembec added melamine to the product even though melamine is not an approved additive for feed. FDA is warning companies to stop adding melamine to their feed products.
How did the FDA find out about this? Unisource tested their product for melamine and it came back positive for melamine. The FDA found out about this on Friday, May 18 and on that next Monday, FDA began its investigation of Uniscope and Tembec. FDA is saying that they are raising companies’ awareness and to be wary of their suppliers. Today, May 30, is the first day of the recall.
The FDA is suggesting that Tembec was using melamine not as a protein source but to improve the binding properties of the feed pellets. At this point, the investigation is still continuing, so the FDA cannot comment on what they have found in their investigation, how long this has been going on, and what if any punishment will occur to Tembec for putting in melamine in a feed product. The FDA is also not aware how much feed is out there and will also not comment on what other countries have received the Aquabond and or Aqua-tec II. The product is meant for commercial fish feed and not for tropical or pet fish.
Human Safety: The FDA assures us all that there is very low risk to humans. The estimated levels in the Xtra-bond is less than 50 parts for million of melamine or melamine-related compounds. The estimated levels in the Aquabond and Aqua-tec II are 230-460 parts for million of melamine or melamine-related compounds.
The full liveblog after the jump.
The FDA briefing will be on the recall of products tainted with melamine.
The panel:
–David Acheson, M.D., assistant commissioner for food protection, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
–Kenneth Petersen, D.V.M., M.P.H., assistant administrator for field operations, Food Safety and Inspection Service, USDA
–Michael Rogers, director, Division of Field Investigations, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
–Kim Young, deputy director of Compliance, Center for Veterinary Medicine, FDA
–Captain David Elder, director, Office of Enforcement, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
–Michael Herndon, Office of Public Affairs, FDA
Conference begins.
Herndon introduces.
Acheson: telling us a recall of the ingredient that is in live feed for fish and livestock
1) source of the contamination is within the US
2) not directly related to the pet food situation
voluntary recall with two companies
1) Tembec, Toledo, OH - makes aquabond and aqua-tec 2 and distributes to Uniscope- used for fish feed- is for exported and domestic use
2) Uniscope, Johnstown, CO- makes X-trabond- used for livestock feed- for domestic use
-all products are binding agents used to feed cattle, fish, shrimp
-melamine is not an approved additive and the companies have stopped adding melamine to the feed product
we’re advising companies to recall finished feed from aquabond but not for x-tra bond. estimated in the x-tra bond is less than 50 parts of million– estimated levels in auqabond is 200-460 parts for million of melamine and mel. related compounds
these estimated levels vary due to the different levels of melamine and dilution in final product
scientists determined that the consumption of pork, fish and chicken is still highly unlikely for humans to be at risk
Q and A:
NYT: how did you find out about this? how long has this gone on? any criminal probe?
A: this came to our attention because uniscope brought it to our attention. we have raised awareness to manuf and to be vary of suppliers- they used a product that could be potentially contain melamine and tested it themselves to a private lab and found it to be present. they informed us of the situation- FDA is proactive in communicating with the industry and taking our respons seriously.
-we’ve published our analytical methods so companies can analyze. they brought this to our attention on evening of may 18 and then on monday, FDA begin its investigations and invest are ongoing and we will not comment on the invest.
Washington Times: there have been steps taken in China in re: to their food problems. do you have any thoughts of these actions that they are taking will be effective in making Chinese food exports safe?
A: we can’t say anything about their actions. we met with them recently and working with them on food safety issues.
Q: if the chinese take actions, then the authorities in our country should have thoughts on them?
A: can’t comment on their actions and their recent actions may not be assoc with the food safety concerns-
Boston Globe: do you have sense that this it? are there other recalls that we should expect?
A: right from the beg of the calls, we’ve been acknowledging that food safety is an international and domestic issue. we’re not aware that it has gone beyond that. we are still continuing to invest. hopefully the awareness of companies will be raised.
Q: how much cont. feed is out there?
A: we don’t know at this point. that is info that will be gathered during the invest. this recall is starting today and we are working with firms in exec of this recall.
Tribune Media: all began in March with pet food- if everything has been held up in border, at what point can we say that pet foods are absolutely and undoubtedly safe? at what point will there be no recalls?
A: things that we put in place at the border will prevent protein conc from coming in- this does not mean that a particular manuf doesn’t have something in a warehouse- hopefully the raising awareness part will help- it’s hard to believe that a pet food manuf wouldn’t know something about it- we have put as many controls we can as much as possible. 1) put controls on what comes into the country; 2) if something is currently being used and is not being tested, we can’t rule out that at some point, it may be found out that it is contaminated — also there is a lot of cross-contamination within the companies– i can’t give you an absolute never to the recalls. we are trying to keep this problem from recalling. companies are starting to test their products.
Q: what is that point where things will be safe for safe food? and consumers can feel confident? for fish feed, how about food that we give to out pet fish?
A: all of the evidence is that it is going to commercial application- in 50 pound bags for bulk feed- not for tropical or pet fish
USA Today: 1) the company that was making this product- were they using melamine for a protein source or for a plastic glue to hold pellets together?
A: it seems that they weren’t using it as a protein source. it was used to improve the binding properties. melamine is not an approved additive
Q: you have a recall on the food going out? what about the animals that were being fed?
A: at this point, no. the levels in the x-tra bond do not reach a level of concern. the levels in the aquabond and aquatech were higher and so they didn’t reach a level of concern for human health. in the aquabond and aquatech, there was a concern for the fish
WA Post: i don’t see a press release?
A: it will be up in a minute
Q: it sounds like Tembec that was adding these melamine ingredients- so Tembec never approached you about this or never stopped using melamine- until Uniscope had tested did they stop. do you think it is irresponsible on the part of Tembec to stop adding melamine to the product
A: that is part of the active investigation- it came to our attention on May 18. we can’t comment on that because we don’t have any info on that.
Q: on what basis did you say that they weren’t trying to increase the protein but to use it as a binding agent
A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten.
Q: are these products sold with a certain amount of protein level?
A: no, I don’t think this is the case
Sac Bee: would be the particular ingredient be used in other products and what other testing will be done with feed?
A: we are focusing on the invest of the binding agent in the fish feed. we are informing fish feed and live stock feed manuf and our focus is on the binding agents.
LA Times: were either of these companies using melamine for a long time? what are their methods of manuf? when did they start using it? are there other livestock that could have been fed this binding agent?
A: part of the invest is trying to figure out how long- it most likely has been going on for awhile- we don’t have specific info to share-
Q: how far might this have gone? you have mentioned sheep and goats?
A: it’s cattle, sheep and goats- they are primarily for the xtrabond. the fish and shrimp are targets for aquatech 2 and aquabond. we don’t know the extent of far this has gone. the aquabond and aquatech 2 are exported and we are notifying those countries.
Q: domestically, how major is this?
A: most of the aquatech2 and aquabond are for exports. with the xtrabond, we don’t have a good sense of that since the recall just started today. all of this info is in process of being obtained. the feed with the xtrabond we don’t except to see a recall.
CNN: have you checked to see who else Tembec is selling to?
A: tembec is only selling to uniscope.
CNN: melamine is unapproved. are there any approved uses of melamine?
A: it is approved for use in plasticware, dinnerware as a polymer.
Q: but not for feed or for food.
A: yes, not approved for feed or human food.
Q: what action is being taken against tembec?
A: tembec and uniscope are being cooperative. our investigation remains open. tembec have stopped using melamine and uniscope has stopped selling the product. no unapproved use or unapproved distribution going on now.
NPR: tembec was doing this themself? they weren’t getting melamine from other countries?
A: correct
Q: only used for fish feed and not for pet fish?
A: it is intended for fish feed.
Pittsburgh Tribune: what is the level in other two products? why did it take 12 days for the FDA to announce this?
A: the levels were for melamine and mel related compounds. they were heavily melamine. the levels of melamine were by far the highest, cyan. acid were low comp to melamine. the xtra bond was less for 50 parts for million in finished feed. the aquabond and aquatech were higher and in the region of 230-460 parts for million depending on the dilution when product is actually put together?
Q: why did it take 12 days? what other countries?
A: we are notifying countries- until they are all notified, we don’t want to comment. we had invest in there on that monday. from may 25-26, we were trying to contact companies and get the recall going. with the holiday weekend, it took longer.
Balt Sun: how do melamine levels found in aquabond and aquatech 2 compare to the levels of wheat flour in China?
A: way higher. the levels were 20% in the pet food.
Q: is the FDA doing anything now so that you will find melamine in products if companies are not doing testing themselves?
A: yes, we are focusing on feeds and anything with imported products
Q: how many companies are you actually testing the product for? how many companies are making this? what are the chances that you can detect this without them coming forward?
A: we can’t get to every company- this part of the strategy is to raise awareness in manuf to look and to see what you’re getting- uniscope did that. it’s a multi-prong approach
Q: but the company selling to uniscope didn’t come forward? what could you do to the company?
A: if we don’t know about them, we can’t do too much about it. the provisions and the statues are clear. companies who commit prohibited act will be prosecuted.
Q: ABC NEWS: it sounds as if Uniscope didn’t know what they were getting?
A: Tembec was the orig manuf. they manuf aquabond and aquatech2. that same ingredient was shipped to uniscope and used it to make xtrabond. the ingredient is a binding agent to hold pellets together better.
Q: you have no idea how much Tembec has made? what was the percentage of melamine in the binding agent?
A: the levels in the binding agent varied- up to 31,000 parts for million- that was in the original agent and not the final feed.
Q: you have not shut down Tembec?
A: tembec is not producing products with melamine. they are producing products with no melamine in it.
Q: would it have been labeled as anything else as melamine? would they not have done that they were mixing with melamine?
A: i can’t speak to what Tembec knew or didn’t know. it’s speculation.
Q: what are you expecting from private companies in terms of surveillance? are there any regulatory issues? is it strictly voluntary? what are the costs for testing?
A: it’s vitally important to not make any assumptions about what’s in your product- know your suppliers and know what they are sending you.
Q: what are the companies expected to do in light of this new situation? how does a company to protect itself with a known supplier?
A: if I were a CEO, i would ask who my suppliers were and if you didn’t get a level of comfort, then test it yourself. how assured am I that I am receiving what I am expecting.
FDA conference concludes.
May 30th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Itchmo, thank you again. That’s all I keep saying. Thank you!
May 30th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Musical interlude:
2:55 PM: The Temptations, “It Was Just My Imaginationâ€
May 30th, 2007 at 3:06 pm
Steve–I saw on PC they had “Something Stupid” by the Sinatra’s. Perfect for the FDA. If the Foo sh*ts……
May 30th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
blah blah blah blah blah
May 30th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
May 29, 2007
Feds Complete Melamine Risk Assessment
Late on the Friday afternoon before a long weekend, five federal agencies released a risk assessment for melamine-tainted foods that found none cause a health threat to people.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
This freakin’ government can’t do a freakin’ thing!
Why are we paying our hard earned tax $’s to a bunch of morons who CAN’T DO ANYTHING?
Hey FDA: YOU’RE ALL FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!
May 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Herndon actually said the FDA is proactive??? Is he working for the same FDA that has been in the middle of this sionce March???
May 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
….”if something is currently being used and is not being tested, we can’t rule out that at some point, it may be found out that it is contaminated — also there is a lot of cross-contamination within the companies
If the FDA is involved and not being IQ tested we can’t rule out idiocy at all points, it may be found out that they’re industry lackeys w the brains of a doorknob, and also there is a lot of cross-bribing within the companies.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Thanks, Steve. I feel so much safer now.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
China Says U.S. Food Companies Should Be More Cautious
Compiled By Staff
May 30, 2007
According to U.S. officials, the Chinese government and food industry was to blame for the food safety breach in which melamine and related compounds were included in shipments of pet food. Now Chinese officials say U.S. companies should be more cautious in their purchases.
“Officials like me in the Chinese government can supervise the producers here, but U.S. companies doing business with Chinese companies must also be very clear about the standards they need, and don’t just look for a cheap price,” says Yuan Changxiang, a deputy director in the ministry charged with inspecting imports and experts, in a USA Today report.
The incident stemmed from two Chinese export companies using wheat gluten containing the industrial compound melamine to boost protein content in pet food. Pets across the country died after eating the food, and some of the food ended up in swine and poultry feed.
China has since banned melamine use in food products and detained managers at the two companies believed to have intentionally laced the pet food.
Jin Zemin, general manager of Shanghai Kaijin Bio-Tech, which makes wheat gluten, says U.S. importers “want cheaper prices, but that can come at a cost. You should know exactly where the products you buy are coming from. Don’t just look at price.”
Chinese and U.S. officials talked trade this week in Washington. Among the issues were U.S. concerns about contaminated food imports from China, according to USA Today.
http://americanagriculturist.c.....p;fpstid=1
May 30th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
“companies are starting to test their products”
3 months into this recall—I’m glad they’re starting!
May 30th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
Will these guys answer a question? A US company was adding mela-crap until they got caught. I don’t care whether it was for protein or glue. How could they do that?
May 30th, 2007 at 3:38 pm
let’s hear it for the frankenfoods & drugpushers assoc.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
boycott boycott boycott
May 30th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
FDA RELEASE THE NAME OF THE IDENITIFED 5TH TOXIN TO THE PUBLIC NOW
May 30th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Cattle, sheep, goats, and fish. Sounds like the pet food was already contaminated when the gluten appeared
May 30th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
O no we are exporting garbage to other countires just like the CHinese???????????????? How embarassing, but not surprising
May 30th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
I just read that only one percent of our cattle are being tested. It is impossible to check all pet food. They only test this one and that one from the lot. This of course doe s not mean they get all of it. I do not want to eat melamine chicken, pork, or fish. I do not care what the FDA says is safe. It has never been tested on humans, nor children, nor the elderly. Plus, now that they let it all out, no one has said it is safe for our pets!!! how much is too much for them? If they say a chicken and pigs excret it out so fast then why did our dogs and cats get sick!! I believe they do not want to pay the money out to these farmers if they distroyed the animals and they are just taking a chance that it will not do anything to anyones health.
WHAT ABOUT THE PETS! THEY WILL EAT IT TOO? WHY HASN’T ANY ONE TOLD US THIS?
May 30th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
drumroll please:
“we don’t know the extent of far this has gone.”
cymbals
May 30th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
That made up my mind for me. I have been resisting homemade for my pets. I don’t know how I’ll pay for it, but hey, that guy mowed lawns…..
May 30th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
…and the band played waltzing matilda
bonkers. they are all blithering idiots
May 30th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Theres no honor among thieves.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
CNN: melamine is unapproved. are there any approved uses of melamine?
A: it is approved for use in plasticware, dinnerware as a polymer.
Q: but not for feed or for food.
A: yes, not approved for feed or human food.
RIGHT. AS IN: NOT APPROVED FOR FEED OR HUMAN FOOD.
SO GET A F-ING MOVE ON YOU SPINELESS S&!+S.
May 30th, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Who is the FDA protecting by not releasing the name of the identified 5th toxin - a substance that is on the post-9-11 substance list?????
FDA RELEASE THE NAME OF THE 5TH TOXIN TO THE PUBLIC NOW
Where is the media attn to this?
May 30th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Pittsburgh Tribune: what is the level in other two products? why did it take 12 days for the FDA to announce this?
A: the levels were for melamine and mel related compounds. they were heavily melamine. the levels of melamine were by far the highest, cyan. acid were low comp to melamine. the xtra bond was less for 50 parts for million in finished feed. the aquabond and aquatech were higher and in the region of 230-460 parts for million.
Just a spoonful of cyanuric acid makes the melamine go down
May 30th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
and they all lived happly ever after…………
May 30th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
I’m glad the FDA is hoping self-testing will help with the companies not testing themselves (did I read that wrong or am I just an idiot)
May 30th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
those scumbags! this really is the living end!!!!!!!!! what more can i say? we all know what the implications are. and certainly this thought has occurred to someone at Tembec in the last few months. i knew there was more to this poisoning. i wonder if they have been trying to think of a way to hide it–maybe by blaming the Chinese. Arghhhhh!
May 30th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
Has anyone ruled out the 5th toxin found was LEAD they say it was all over the place at 9/11 becauseo fall teh burned up computers. That would definitely cause panic if we found out it was in teh food.
Common symptoms of lead poisoning in adults
Fatigue
Depression
Heart failure
Abdominal pain
Gout
Kidney failure
High blood pressure
Wrist or foot weakness
Reproductive problems
Anemia
Common symptoms of lead poisoning in children
Decreased appetite
Stomach ache
Sleeplessness
Learning problems
Constipation
Vomiting
Diarrhea
Tiredness
Lowered I.Q.
Anemia
May 30th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
To the Balt Sun question he says the levels of melamine was “way higher” than wheat flour but said earlier –was lower (to the WA Post question) which way is it???
May 30th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Tembec’s website says urea resins are used to hold together fish pellets.
Melamine-urea resins are used for plastics, woods, no food products. Well, they used it anyway. Why is the FDA so weenie about it? They broke the law.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
LorieVA
I read they ruled out heavy metals early on so prolly not lead but hey,
…who knows?
This was in the imported mela-flour in petfood samples
When asked at (last?) press conf FDA said the information is on a page that was redacted because it is “sensitive”
For sure it’s some lovely stuff….
But let’s be clear: Hland$ec is supposed to be protecting *us* from terrorists that might poison us??????
May 30th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Balt Sun: how do melamine levels found in aquabond and aquatech 2 compare to the levels of wheat flour in China?
A: way higher. the levels were 20%
and this was done HERE? and it’s taken 12 days?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
Q: but the company selling to uniscope didn’t come forward? what could you do to the company?
A: if we don’t know about them, we can’t do too much about it. the provisions and the statues are clear. companies who commit prohibited act will be prosecuted.
LMAO. RIGHT.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
4lgdfriend;
I was just taking a stab in the dark i saw you said it was a toxin found post 9/11 and Lead would definitely flip some people out. Everyone knows that lead is bad this Mela stuff is fear of unknown but LEAD has been tested we know the fallout. ALot of teh symptoms of lead poisoning fit the pattern with our pets but I guess most poisons would have all the same symptoms.
ALso just because they said they ruled out heavy metals who is really going to believe them at this point. Lets see not ME.. * WINK*
May 30th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Thanks Itchmo–
It would have been nicer to read something like:
Good Afternoon, we have found out other companies using melamine illegally and we will immediately notify everyone involved and prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
Pipedreams
May 30th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
companies who commit prohibited act will be prosecuted.
…after 80,000 chickens enter the food supply (or 80,000,000 fish)
…..after we stall long enough for them to dump the product
…and of course after we have 5 of our “scientists” determine that the product is safe
May 30th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Who do the pharmaceutical companies buy their binding agents from?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
Welcome to the U.C.A. !!!
(The United Corporations of America)
May 30th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
B O S T O N T E A P A R T Y
B U Y L O C A L
B U Y A M E R I C A N
May 30th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Susan: Who do the pharmaceutical companies buy their binding agents from?
Let’s ask the frankenfoods & drugpushers assoc!
May 30th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
4lgdfriend: I bet it’s *REDACTED*
May 30th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Q: on what basis did you say that they weren’t trying to increase the protein but to use it as a binding agent
A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten.
———————————————————————————–
Balt Sun: how do melamine levels found in aquabond and aquatech 2 compare to the levels of wheat flour in China?
A: way higher. the levels were 20%
Is it just me, or do these two statements contradict eachother?
Why aren’t they recalling both products if they both contain melamine and is NOT AN APPROVED ADDITIVE????? They don’t even know how much is in what. Why do they just keep letting livestock and ultimately people eat this cr88? Now will milk and dairy be contaminated, or were they all along, but now we know?
———————————————————————————
hopefully the awareness of companies will be raised. Acheson
I say:
Hopefully the awareness of the FDA will be raised!!!!!
May 30th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
really, is anyone surprised???
May 30th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
media to fda: After each of the previous press conferences you have issued recalls the following day - information you had at the time of the conference. What is the justification for delaying the release of this information?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
I’m not surprised, Pam, I just wish I was. The past three months would drive a preacher to eat his Bible. Those clowns sit there and think we believe them.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Susan said: 4lgdfriend: I bet it’s *REDACTED*
bingo ;-) trade secret.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
there was a concern for the fish
I’m so glad they are concerned about the fish. Frankenfreaks all of them.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I knew the melacrap had to be going into cattle feed. It didn’t make sense that it was fed to hogs ,chickens and fish , but wasn’t going into any other feeds. All the stuff that was identified earlier was not just from pet food, that was to throw everybody off to the idea that it has been normal procedure to use this stuff since who knows when. It also explains the Chinese officials comment about american companies having to “be clear about their standards”, and not buy the “cheap stuff”. To me that translates as, you asked for this stuff, we supplied it, and now you are crying foul. It seems to be saying, we’ve done it here in China, you guys to it in the US and now you are making a big deal like you didn’t know it was normal practice. This was not just an open secret in China, American feed producers have known all this stuff all along. That’s why the fda doesn’t want specific products identified as having melamine compounds in them. People would be screaming, how did you let this go one for so long?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
DSA said: I say Hopefully the awareness of the FDA will be raised!!!!!
I say hopefully the pay of the FDA will be cancelled.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Boston Globe: do you have sense that this it? are there other recalls that we should expect?
A: right from the beg of the calls, we’ve been acknowledging that food safety is an international and domestic issue. we’re not aware that it has gone beyond that.
—–
WE ARE NOT AWARE THAT IT HAS GONE BEYOND THAT?????
Beyond domestic and international? To where? The entire universe?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
They are not even bothering to maintain the pretense that this is a real country anymore. No need now that Bush is a lame duck.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
I have a grandchild. The doctor says feed him one solid food and one only for a week or two to see if he’s sensitive. What would happen to a 12 lb human eating only chicken for a week? They never address this ever!
May 30th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Furmom: knew the melacrap had to be going into cattle feed. It didn’t make sense that it was fed to hogs ,chickens and fish , but wasn’t going into any other feeds.
FISHMEAL = PETFOOD
May 30th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
If I add poison to Tylenol capsules and then cooperate with the law to get them removed from the store shelf, does that mean I don’t go to jail?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
DSA said: I say Hopefully the awareness of the FDA will be raised!!!!!
Their awareness is lowered in proportion to how much their palms are greased.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
If this does not get any press, there has got to be BSE plaguing the public at large.
After the dust settles and our tempers can be channeled into a force for change, What are we going to do? This has got to be stopped! Does anyone have any ideas on how we can get agri-business to stop poisoning us? there has to be a way short of growing our own food–that wouldn’t be safe from gmo’s anyway. How can we affect a real change? Are there any excellent watchdog groups we could join with?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
LorieVA said: ALso just because they said they ruled out heavy metals who is really going to believe them at this point. Lets see not ME.. * WINK*
I hear ya. It was one of the labs that ruled it out, not the fda. And this was done via spectroscopy. or so they say. Also, if heavy metals were involved, independent lab tests like those itchmo is having done on iams would easily identify them. And I doubt they’re “sensitive” that’s my take ….
That’s why we need independent tests and then have our own press conference.
Way to go itchmo!
May 30th, 2007 at 4:35 pm
DMS said: After the dust settles and our tempers can be channeled into a force for change, What are we going to do? This has got to be stopped! Does anyone have any ideas on how we can get agri-business to stop poisoning us? there has to be a way short of growing our own food–that wouldn’t be safe from gmo’s anyway. How can we affect a real change? Are there any excellent watchdog groups we could join with?
DITTO. anyone?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
A: right from the beg of the calls, we’ve been acknowledging that food safety is an international and domestic issue. we’re not aware that it has gone beyond that.
>
May 30th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
add a silent scream to the last post
May 30th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Q: is the FDA doing anything now so that you will find melamine in products if companies are not doing testing themselves?
A: yes, we are focusing on feeds and anything with imported products
———————————————————————
what kind of an answer is that? everything has imported products and what do imported products have to do with tembec’s poisoning of the feed and who knows what else?
May 30th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
So we are at the mercy of our government when it comes to what we eat. They will determine what we can die of based on the support of the industry involved.
Wow what a bunch.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Steve Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
So we are at the mercy of our government when it comes to what we eat. They will determine what we can die of based on the support of the industry involved.
Wow what a bunch.
****
Yes that appears to be true. Just do not become obese. They frown on that.
May 30th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
And no mad cow testing either! Thats forbidden!
May 30th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Wonder why the FDA spokesmen were so wishy-washy about answering a question about our policy re: China and food safety issues? Here’s the FDA’s response:
“Washington Times: there have been steps taken in China in re: to their food problems. do you have any thoughts of these actions that they are taking will be effective in making Chinese food exports safe?
A: we can’t say anything about their actions. we met with them recently and working with them on food safety issues.
Q: if the chinese take actions, then the authorities in our country should have thoughts on them?
A: can’t comment on their actions and their recent actions may not be assoc with the food safety concerns-”
THEN, KAREN ROEBECK ASKS THE BIG QUESTION (per petconnection): DID WE (a U.S. company) EXPORT THIS MELAMINE TO CHINA for use in fish and/or livestock feed manufacture)?
“Roebuck: Why did this take 12 days? And where did it get exported? Did any go to China?â€
“Acheson: Doesn’t want to comment on countries involved until they are notified.”
If we did, there goes our moral authority making a noisy, circular and downward motion — down the drain.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Sorry, I was anonymous.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
DMS, I replied to a post of yours on another board regarding skin conditions that won’t heal in dogs. One of our dogs has problems on the tips of her ears. Everyone is stumped. I’d like to discuss with you.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
I didn’t know the head of a government agency could plead the 5th amendment unless he was on trial. Why do Acheson’s words sound like “I refuse to answer on the grounds it may incrimidate me”? “Can’t say anything, can’t comment”…has he been taking lessons from “I don’t know, I can’t recollect” Gonzales?
May 30th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
but plastic products ARE used in our food products. over the weekend i posted links to a Monsanto patent for a plastic seed coating and herbi/insecticide that IS being sprayed on seeds and plants. i reiterate-plastics are being used in the human food chain. someone ( dr. fox? sorry i can’t recall) called these products -many of which are specifically used with GMO crops- and GMOs the unrecognized elephant in the room with melamine in this pet food fiasco.
they are LYING when they say melamine is not used anywhere or ok’d anywhere for use in food.Monsanto and others like Bayer are and have been spraying it SPECIFICALLY on grain seeds. melamine is named in the monsanto patent as being used as a binding polymer that’s ” not biodegradable or water soluble” but somehow is suppose to disappear over time( their words).
May 30th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
A. Sledge Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
When all this started in March, I was feeding my dogs Wellness canned and kibble. My Belgian Tervueren sheepdog mix has big ears and her “ear margins” were crusty and the skin itself appeared to be getting thicker. This had been going on for some months. Vet wasn’t sure why, but gave her a topical medication. It made them much worse. In less than two weeks of home feeding, her ear condition disappeared. Her coat is beautiful, too. I’d taken my Westie to the vets as the tearing under her eyes was extreme. No infection. I’d had the canals between her eyes and her nose (I’m not describing that properly) flushed out when she was under anesthesia for teeth cleaning. Nothing helped — until the homecooking. I’m a believer.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
The Federal Government can do many things, when motivated by monies.
Sandi
May 30th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Here’s FDA’s news release:
“Tembec and Uniscope Voluntary Recall Feed Ingredients
FDA Asks Feed Manufacturers to Avoid Ingredients Containing Melamine”
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/.....01643.html
May 30th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Crusty ears on dogs and cats is not that uncommon. Many times it is an allergic reaction to environment, it can be flies that bite the outer ear edges, and they are very sensitive and take time to heal
Crusty ears, can also be a yeast, I use for yeast control in ears Gential Violet, it works, but, have to be careful, as everything turns purple even the inside of the dog’s ear.
I have also used just plain cod liver one tha ti s used for diaper rashes, I use this for humans and animals. It softens the crusty skin.
Sandi
May 30th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Boycotting will not work, Dollar Stores, Family Dollar Stores, they have alot of pull with the Government.
On Lou Dobbs Tuesday night, talking about garbage in stuffed toys and animals from China. I assume it is cooked at high temperatures.
Sandi
May 30th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
A Sledge
are you still out there? i didn’t see your other reply. Our dog, a wire-haired fox terrier has a bald spot near his hind quarter that becomes itchy and irritated. It heals up partially, but the hair never grows back completely. He’s had it since December. He did get sick in march, just before the food recall. His liver enzymes were off. He was acting really weird, eating anything he could lick off of the carpet, staring, drooling.
Finally he ate an eraser which he couldn’t upchuck or pass. The vet said it looked small enough to pass per xray, but it just sat in his stomach for 3 days while he was getting worse, in pet hospital and getting fluids. Thankfully, he recovered and I switched him back to Nutro, which i am now concerned about, but he seems to be doing much better. The liver enzyme is still slightly elevated, but much more in line. His skin just will not heal. The vet now thinks he has dermatitis which has left him vulnerable to a staph infection. He is being treated with antibiotics. Part of the bald spot is regrowing hair, but part is stubborn. As soon as we stop the antibiotic, it seems to return. He is going back to the vet for followup on Friday. We have another dog who is unaffected, so this does not appear to be contagious.
I have to leave soon to pick up one of my children, but will check back if I miss you.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
DMS - My dog and cat were having skin problems on their old food. I switched them to Innova and they look great. Skin all clear.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
A. Sledge - crusty ears and eyes are a symptoms of allergies. Your dog may have been allergic to one of the ingredients in wellness. I noticed it contains different forms of rice and barley….Maybe too many grains.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Anonymous at 4:35 pm
Don’t know yet. Motivating people to put their butts on the line is going to be the biggest obstacle.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
A: if I were a CEO, i would ask who my suppliers were and if you didn’t get a level of comfort, then test it yourself. how assured am I that I am receiving what I am expecting.
——————————————–
if i were an acorn, i would ask myself what tree am i falling from. what kind world is this?
May 30th, 2007 at 5:39 pm
This is a bit off the FDA subject….I am sorry about this.
Today, I noticed that IAMS has a new product….maybe even a new line? This one is IAM”S ALL NATURAL…..the bag is totally different. I didn’t get to really examine the product, it was shrink wrapped on a pallet. I don’t know if it is a new line or some stupid marketing ploy to improve product trust….don’t have a clue.
I have TWO emails from P&G that clearly state the IAMS product line was all natural….you know the smooth it over BS ones. IF the product was allready ‘all nautural’……what is the need to have introduce a product that is all natural???? I kind of think this bag is just a lame attempt.
I hope to get a better look at the product this week.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Probably a stupid marketing ploy.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Was the US company Melamine levels way higher or way lower than the Chinese?
To hear them say it-it’s BOTH?!?
May 30th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
If I were really a CEO , I would ask myself why isn’t the FDA regulating the food industry? If someone is trying to sell me poison unbeknownst to me, will they be prosecuted for breaking the law and endangering the domestic and international public? Will they at least be prosecuted for endangering agri-business? Can the government prevent me from testing my own products in the future, like they are trying to do with Creekstone Ranchers testing for BSE? What makes my testing for contaminants which the government recommends different from Creekstone’s testing for BSE which the government is trying to ban? This is very contradictory. Ah!! The He!! with it!
May 30th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I don’t care if it was the best dog food in the world. I started my P&G boycott this week. I would never buy Iams after learning about their animal testing by their parent company Proctor and Gamble
May 30th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Back to what mittens said at 5:11 pm. Melamine is not biodegradable or water soluble according to Monsanto and Bayer. Then why does the FDA say the animals excrete it immediately and it’s gone? No danger. Humans are safe.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
to calm us overreactive “fanatics”
May 30th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Yes we’re fanatics because we don’t want to poison or pets, kids, families, and ourselves.
May 30th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
They may not be able to TEST all foods, but they sure as hell could severely fine any company or make it a crime act to purposely add inappropriate ingredients. They can make penalites so damn stiff that companies would opt out of doing that kind of crap. The bottom line is that serious regulations and legislation with some teeth need to be in place - pronto.
As long as the fox is guarding the henhouse and the farmer is an idiot, then we can expect most, if not all our food to be contaminated with any number of inappropriate ingredients. They are testing for melamine now - what the hell other stuff could be in our food supply?
Where once we probably all felt that the US food supply was safe and every now and then, there was a problem - I personally have now officially adopted the stance that everything is probably contaminated with SOMETHING… until it is ruled out.
OMG……
May 30th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
I just noticed how we are seeing a large shift back to organic - milk eggs, etc. This tells me that mass production is not as good for us as they once told us.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
SYSTEMIC YEAST INFECTION - I ran into this problem with one of my Newfoundlands last summer. I thought she had an allergy.
Her cause for this infection was grains and carbs. NO GRAINS OR CARBS in her diet. We also had to bathe her 3 times for 2 months. It can take up to 6 months to shed the yeast.
Systemic Yeast Infections - Candida Albicans
http://www.greatdanelady.com/a.....bicans.htm
May 30th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
There was an article about that in a recent issue of the whole dog journal
May 30th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Yes Ann, I agree with all they wrote.
Should be - bathed 3 times a week!
May 30th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
FDA says okay for cynauric acid in feed……
Bi´u`ret
n. 1. (Chem.) A white, crystalline, nitrogenous substance, C2O2N3H5, formed by heating urea. It is intermediate between urea and cyanuric acid.
Patent….
Off the FDA page for cattle/animal feed…Sec. 573.220 Feed-grade biuret.
http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/.....0.1.1.20.2
————————————————————————
Percent
————————————————————————
Biuret…………………………….. 55 minimum.
Urea………………………………. 15 maximum.
Cyanuric acid and triuret……………. 30 maximum.
Mineral oil………………………… 0.5 maximum.
Total nitrogen (equivalent to 218.75 pct 35 minimum.
crude protein).
FDA permits a certain amount of cyanuric acid to be present in some non-protein nitrogen (NPN) additives used in animal feed and drinking water.[4] Cyanuric acid has been used as NPN. For example, Archer Daniels Midland manufactures a NPN supplement for cattle, which contains biuret, triuret, cyanuric acid and urea.[5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanuric_acid
May 30th, 2007 at 6:17 pm
susan-
i’m at work and can’t get to the link now but their patent claims that although the savagely long list of plastics that can be used with their saranwrap for seeds are not biodegradable or water soluable that they.. i think the really unscientific terms they used were, roughly,- “er, we guess they( plastic polymers) ‘ go away’ in ‘ time’… maybe.”
what time ? eons? a billion years? if theyre neither water soluable or biodegradable how the BLANK #$%!!! do they go away? elfin magic?
if the fda wasn’t monsanto’s bought and paid B@#&h maybe they’d admit that they’re involved in obfiscating the actual culprit instead of exposing it. theyre just digging themselves deeper in the puppy droppings and seemingly shocked that they keep having to announce, when the whim strikes it seems, yet another ‘voluntary recall’ when they should be shutting people down and water boarding the truth out of them if need be.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
I did not realize that there is a dog food recommendation at the end of the url I sent.
My Newfoundlands and cat are all on homemade diet without grains or carbs.
Hair loss, thickening and the color black of the skin, is another sign of yeast infection.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
DMS, Sandi, Maureen, Ann: Thank you for your replies. Part of the above post, however, isn’t mine. We’ve never fed wellness. Our furry child in question is a “classic american mutt” mix that is nine years old. She is a rescue that was abused prior to adoption and burned with something. From six months to 1year, she ate Purina puppy chow, then we tried Purina dog chow but she didn’t like it. About that time they introduced Little Bites which she ate for several years. When we began to be concerned about weight, the vet recommended Science Diet weight loss. She’s never been obese, we’re very conscientious and thought we were doing well by her. We used the Science Diet weight maintenance after that. Last June, her complete annual checkup was fine. In July she didn’t want to eat and lost a huge amount of muscle mass in the temporal region. The vet immediately suspected cancer, but that was ruled out. We went back to Little Bites and she ate that readily. Just as the muscle mass began to resolve, her right nostril discharge began again. It’s been kind of on-off all of her life and the three vets that have seen her can’t figure that one out. She takes Rimadyl once daily for a leg problem from gashing her forearms trying to take out the evil tree man on the other side of a window. That supposedly skews the liver enzymes a bit. Initial bloodwork showe elevated WBC and we did several rounds of anitbiotics. Also, in late summer/early fall, I noticed that her eyes were red. The vet checked the pressures and found them extremely low. That was finally resoved with three rounds of eye drops. In early fall, I noticed that the lower ear margins felt hard. We’ve tried at least three topical prescriptions, seen another vet and get minor improvement, only for it to come back. Two vets have done fungal cultures-negative. One suspects something called “Cold Aglutenation Disease” but the ear tips are the only thing affected, not the tip of her tail, toenails, etc. We also strongly suspect that she had Distemper right after her adoption. The vet that saw her then has since destroyed her records because they were old and we no longer used him. She also shows signs of hard-pad disease, which is manageable with trimming. We do have specialists here in town, but our vet assures me that he is communicating with the allergist and ruling out everything that the allergist would be doing. I’ve since learned of the Purina horrors and have taken both dogs and the kitty off. Right now, the dogs are eating Merrick dry with a tiny bit of canned and “people food” that I’m cooking. I apologize for such a long post, but I welcome any thoughts. We’ve had over three thousand in vet bills since July. We had all three animals blood and urine checked in April and all tested fine, with just some slightly weird numbers in one or two areas. I can get a copy of the results to be more specific.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
November 20, 2006
A person describing him or herself as an “anonymous EPA employee†writes that an “atmosphere of fear, intimidation, and suppression… has permeated EPA for the past six years.â€
May 30th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
Lou Dobbs did a story about testing for mad cow disease. Here’s Lou’s poll for tonight:
Do you believe the Department of Agriculture should test U.S. cattle for Mad Cow?
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/
May 30th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
“Back to what mittens said at 5:11 pm. Melamine is not biodegradable or water soluble”
Susan
I think that you are confusing biodegradable with the fact that melamine does degrade over time. I think what the FDA is saying is that since it isn’t “biodegradable” it shouldn’t be absorbed in the tissues and should come out in the urine.
What I believe we saw in the pet food was melamine that had started/was degrading into its component compounds, ammeline, ammelide, cyanuric acid etc.
Whether you chose to believe what the FDA is reporting is another matter. I am not supporting the FDA just trying to explain where they get their theories from.
dingbat
May 30th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
My mind keeps going back to the English-labeled pink plastic bag of melamine found in the would be RPC shipment to Wilbur-Ellis. We wondered if someone in the US was adding it to food/feed because of the bag being labeled not in Chinese, but in English.
And now I wonder if Tembec is/was a W-E client for the purchase ofany materials.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
Joan,
I just read your post. Our dog does have blackening on the tips of one ear. She’s actually had bits of the ear come off and now they are ragged on the ends. It makes sense that it all began after the several rounds of antibiotics last summer/fall. Would a fungal culture not show a yeast infection? I submitted a longer post a little while ago, but it must be in the spam filter.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Wasn’t there a third company that was not disclosed??
May 30th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
5CatMom Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
and he just had to show that clip of Bush . . . OY! but! i managed to leave the TV in one piece . . .
so USDA controls the test kits, eh? we be more screwed than i thought . . .
May 30th, 2007 at 6:35 pm
“Our dog does have blackening on the tips of one ear.”
A.sledge
The typical symptom for yeast infections is what is called “elephant skin”, it is gray, cracked and actually looks like elephant skin.
Our one male has had this on and off for over a year. Cultures were done and the vet realized that it was a yeast infection. We tried all kinds of stuff, what worked best for us was of course a change of diet, bathing the affected area with an anti-fungal shampoo. We also started a candida treatment, all of the above have helped. Yeast infections can be brought on by antibiotics, grain allergies, grains.
They are VERY DIFFICULT to treat at times and can be very resistant.
We are in the 3rd month of treatment, he is doing better but it does flare up at times.
good luck
dingbat
May 30th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
Carol - Out of the three manufacturers that received contaminated wheat flour - AKA rpc, from cereal by products, only 1 came out - Royal Canin, one said that their supply was damaged and not used, the third company never released.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:37 pm
The Whole Dog Journal article talked about using coconut oil to clear up systemic Candida yeast infections.
I used coconut oil for a rescued dog that had suffered from a chronic ear infection for years before he came into our program.
I had put him on Canidae whe he first came to me, then on Salmon A La Veg, the I added the coconut oil and used it topically. The diet changes helped, but the coconut oil really did the trick.
I did some research before I put him on it; there are several books out there about Coconut oil.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Dogmom
Thanks for the tip, I will look into coconut oil.
dingbat
May 30th, 2007 at 6:45 pm
A. Sledge Says
I really don’t know about the fungal test. I took Obi to Dr Sodhi a Holistic Veterinary DVM and he could tell by the smell. He did mention a yeast test and if I understood him there are different types of yeasts. He knew what Obi’s problem was.
We did a full blood panel for allergies and a cancer test on her rear lymph nodes - which were swollen form the yeast infection. All came back good - she only had a slight allergy to dust mites.
I have read that a lot of veterinarians miss the yeast infection and treat for unknown allergies with antibiotics
May 30th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Article on plastic accumulation in fur seals. (Some melamine.)
http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/14627365
May 30th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
Menusux- yeah. There’s that.
Cod liver oil mentioned above. So, anyone checking into fish oil? May as well add that to the bandwagon. Is it wild caught and fed, or farmed but still technically in whatever water? How pure is pure and what do they test for?
We’ve covered just about everything else. Well, turkeys have somehow missed the boat. Big boat, though.
May 30th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
“Our dog does have blackening on the tips of one ear.”
Exactly what happened to us. The vet kept giving him antibiotics which make it worse. Finally she ran a test for yeast and then still gave him antibiotics.
We decided to start treating it ourselves about 3 months ago.
thanks
dingbat
May 30th, 2007 at 7:04 pm
Here’s how the W-E “RPC” shipment breaks down–some what was shipped by W-E was via CB:
“Cereal Byproducts, a Mt. Prospect-based ingredient supplier, is still reeling from the discovery that the rice protein concentrate it purchased through a domestic importer from Chinese supplier Binzhou Futian Biology Technology Co. was tainted with melamine. Cereal Byproducts had shipped the product to three customers in the Midwest. “It’s very disturbing,” said Jim Tofilon, president of the employee-owned firm. “You trust people to do the right thing, but people are unscrupulous.”
“The company began purchasing the Chinese-made rice protein in July. “They were sending it in with an FDA registration number. As far as we knew, this product was good,” Tofilon said.
“Pet food manufacturer Royal Canin USA, based in St. Charles, Mo., was one of the companies that received the tainted rice protein, and on May 11, recalled 15 of its 187 pet foods, said spokesman Erik Mueller.”
http://webprod.wecon.com/WECOW.....events.htm
“Wilbur-Ellis noted that it obtained rice protein from a single source in China and shipped to a total of five U.S. pet-food manufacturers located in Utah, N.Y., Kansas and two in Missouri.”
Utah=ANI
NY=Chenango
Kansas=CJ Foods
Missouri #1=Diamond
Missouri #2=RC
http://72.14.209.104/search?hl.....s+melamine
May 10, 2007 Chicago Tribune
FDA implicates another U.S. business in pet food scare
“Cereal Byproducts Co., which has plants in five states, issued a recall for the rice protein products on May 4. The company’s products went to three pet food manufacturers.
“A congressional source familiar with the pet food contamination issue said that Cereal Byproducts shipped tainted rice protein to Royal Canin, which issued a its own dog food recall on April 19.
“A second customer, the source said, used the Cereal Byproducts rice protein to make a mixture of pet food ingredients, but those products sustained water damage and were discarded, making a recall unnecessary. A third company, the source said, hasn’t been identified by the FDA. ”
So we have RC’s recall shown above, that of Diamond on some of its contract work (NB dry, etc.), and finally Diamond’s recall of the cross-contaminated Nutra Nuggets. The press release for the ANI recalls says ANI purchased directly from W-E:
http://www.avma.org/aa/petfood.....070430.asp
“The Denver office of the FDA informed American Nutrition, Inc. that certain samples of rice protein shipped to its production facility have been contaminated with melamine, an industrial chemical used to make plastics and fertilizers that may be harmful to animals if consumed. The rice protein in question was obtained from San Francisco-based Wilbur-Ellis Company.”
And the press release for BB’s Spa Kitten Select made by CJ Foods also says the company purchased direct from W-E:
http://www.avma.org/aa/petfood.....70419a.asp
“The company stated that the rice protein concentrate used for this production run was obtained from Wilbur-Ellis, the same company that supplied rice protein concentrate to Natural Balance.”
The products from the third manufacturer who bought through CB had them destroyed, as above, so they never hit the market.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I wondered if this was in animal feed. I have horses and they are given pelleted feed everyday. The big “P” feed company. Enough gov. step up to the plate and be honest for a change with the american people.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I really, really want to know:
Who sold Tembec the Melamine - where did they get it?
Did their source sell it to anybody else?
Was the “binding agent” used in any products for human consumption?
Was the “binding agent” used in any pet foods? (wheat gluten was allegedly used as a binding agent)
What happens if they Tembec or their source sold it to China?
May 30th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
dogmom 3,
It does seem from that Swedish research article I posted that it is a given that plastics are used in feed pellets. And they found that it accumulates up the food chain. I never knew that plastics were added to feed pellets???
May 30th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Menusux- so we still don’t know who the third party was that received the Cereal By products RPC
May 30th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
For those of you discussing the dog(s) with the crusty or blackening of the ear tips, it is also typical in sarcoptic mange. See link below. It may or may not apply but worth considering.
http://www.marvistavet.com/htm.....mange.html
May 30th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
“We don’t think the concentration is very high,” said Charlie Russell, a spokesman for Uniscope. “But if FDA thinks it’s a big deal I’m not sure we’re going to disagree with it.”
May 30th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
I just realized that the “feedstock pellets” the Swedish article is talking about are probably pellets used in the petrochemical industry as raw materials, not animal food pellets. But the article still does show that scrap melamine bioaccumulates up the food chain from fish to mammals. Sorry for the confusion.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:29 pm
Steve- whats this? Circular speech? I must have slept through that in public speaking class
May 30th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
I have to tell you all i just heard on the news that Good Morning America is supposed to have something on about Wal-Mart. why are they losing business and why are they losing custumers? I think the boycotting of P&G is helping, too. but it will be interesting to see what they have to say about it.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Trudy - how is your dog?
May 30th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Ann H Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 7:09 pm
I thought they were making it?
Could be very wrong though, exploded brains don’t always comprehend well . . .
May 30th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
you know the FDA relies on the actual drug/manufacturing companies to do all the physical testing on a drug or product. the FDA doesn’t test it themselves- their scientists read the paper work the company supplies to the FDA. the fda is left to believe/accept or not the results the companies allege their tests and trials obtained.
the fda doesn’t go in and test until there is, oh, a death or 16 or 6,000…
i want to know how the fda can both claim that melamine does or doesn’t stay in a mammals system when they themselves have stated repeatedly that tests were only done on a small scale with melamine and rabbits or rats. who cares what it does to cats, dogs or humans feed it to food animals anyway? clearly it IS staying in the systems of the animals that have been killed. sure it may be broken into component parts but that still means it’s NOT biodegradable- . being’ broken down’ isn’t ‘ going away”. this is shoddy as hell all the way around. it doesn’t belong in food but it may be pissed out anyway.. we think? what , if we or our pets don’t tingle out your poison it’s our fault because it didnt kill rats in one trial who knows how long ago?
ok i get it know- our pets wern’t urinating properly and we wanted reasonably priced pet food so it’s the consumer’s fault and our pets can’t pee right?
round and round.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
Steve Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
“We don’t think the concentration is very high,†said Charlie Russell, a spokesman for Uniscope. “But if FDA thinks it’s a big deal I’m not sure we’re going to disagree with it.â€
**********************************
what the . . . ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*picks jaw up off floor and goes for a nice long walk*
May 30th, 2007 at 7:44 pm
He vommited all last night. We stayed up most of the night with Him. He did drink a lot of water. But first thing this morning, i know the vet so I got in first, I took him to the vets. He was just starting to get dehydrated. So He is still there, they are running all kinds of tests on Him. I will call first thing tomorrow. He said it could be pankreatitis [sp?]. Because He didn’t have a fever and is in some pain and hasn’t gone to the bathroom. After losing 3 cats I just don’t know what I would do if this is serious. Thanks for asking. PS- I did tell him to test for all the symptoms of kidney problems , dog food etc.
May 30th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
I’m glad you were ale to get him in right away. Like I said yesterday, if they throw up and thats the end of it you’re OK, but if it continues, you have a problem. I’ll keep your furbaby in my prayers
May 30th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Debbie4747-thanks for the link to the sarcoptic mange article. I’ll question both vets about it.
dingbat-thank you for the info. I’m going to pursue the yeast infection.
Dogmom-thanks for the info about coconut oil. I will look into that.
Can anyone tell me more about the Canidae? Or where to find it?
May 30th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Thank You ann.
May 30th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
I meant to ask everyone- Is there anything wrong with corningware plates? Thanks,
May 30th, 2007 at 8:31 pm
Did they test it for cyanauric acid??????
Why not?
May 30th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Trudy Jackson,
What were you feeding when this happened? I hope your little fella will be ok. Kitty prayers for him.
May 30th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
Menu finally posted their 1st Qtr Financials:
Menu Foods Income Fund Announces 2007 First Quarter Results
19:21 EDT Wednesday, May 30, 2007
http://tsedb.globeinvestor.com.....g=393744_1
May 30th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
A. Sledge said
“Can anyone tell me more about the Canidae? Or where to find it?”
I found a distributor near me by searching www.canidae.com They show you a map of the US and you click on your state. Then they show you a close up of the state and you click on the green dot closest to where you are. Petco and PetSmart do not carry Canidae. Canidae will give you a list of stores with their address and phone numbers.
The dry food is made in Hamlin, Texas at Pied Piper. I believe that Canidae uses their own equipment. Their wet food is done by Evangers in Illinois.
I do rescue and when I take a dog from the shelter, they are eating a mixture of commerical dog foods. I put them on Canidae immediately with out mixing. The dogs do not get the diarrehea. Their coats start to improve from their shoulders back, you can actually see it happening day by day. I have large dogs (a Newfoundand and a Great Dane/ Lab cross plus two Akitas) and the MOST that they get is 4 1/2 cups of food apiece a day.
They have a Platinum formula for older dogs that have weight or joint issues, a Lamb and Rice formula and an All Life Stages formula.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
ann Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Menusux- so we still don’t know who the third party was that received the Cereal By products RPC
No, that information was never let out, just that whoever received it had their products damaged by water and they were never market because of that.
What mittens is saying about FDA and its reliance on the tests & studies the drug manufacturers provide in order to get their drugs approved is right. Have a look at the link below for how this really went off the charts for one drug in particular:
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05.....path.shtml
Drug’s Chilling Path to Market
St. Petersburg (FL) Times May 26, 2007
May 30th, 2007 at 9:04 pm
I am in Cincinnati–home to P & G. I was talking to my neighbor that works for them this weekend and subtly asked her “what’s going on with
Iams dog food”???? She said that they were about to launch a “totally natural” dog food. Possibly it has hit the shelves???
May 30th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I think all the corningware is just straight tempered glass, but I guess it could have some plastic in it.
Dog ear infections–both of my big dogs (sis & bro) had ongoing bad yeast infections in their ears, also skin & digestive problems. Until I learned 2 of their siblings who also had the same symptoms were allergic to chicken. I switched meat proteins & most problems went away except continued digestive probs in the male & & dandruff in the female.
A raw commercial diet got rid of those problems & now with home cooking & they look the best ever. If I add corn, back to itchiness, so they seem have multiple allergies. They started out with a low quality diet so the cheap ingredients & probably genetics could have triggered hypersensitivity. Nice thing about home cooking is you can add & take out foods easily to figure out allergies.
Of course us home cookers have to deal with the fact that the food they are feeding probably does have melamine in it, including the beef I’m now feeding, which also may have e. coli or BSE in it.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I tried to just post but something weird happened, hope this doesn’t repeat my message.
I’m fairly sure Corningware is just tempered glass, but I guess it could have plastic in it. It doesn’t act like it when it breaks.
Feeding raw commercial food & now home-cooked my took care of my 2 big dogs really nasty ongoing ear yeast infections, as well as bad itching, digestive problems, & dandruff. I found out they are allergic to chicken–their sis & bro also had the same symptoms & their people finally got it figured out. Eliminating that helped a lot, but until I got them off all dry food, it didn’t go away completely. If I add corn to their veggie mix, the itching comes back within 2 days, so they have multiple allergies.
I think sometimes with these hypersensitive dogs, really getting back to basics on their food is the only way to get these problems straightened out. But you kind of have to know what foods to eliminate, which is easier to do when you can alter ingredients as you wish in home cooking.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
thanks for all the info on yeast infections in dogs. Our dog did have yeasty feet several months before the skin infection on his hind quarter. I will ask the vet about the chances of this being yeast. He also mentioned Cushing’s due to the elevated liver precursor. Thanks to all of you.
May 30th, 2007 at 9:48 pm
Ann and Martin, thank you. And We were feeding, unfortunately Pedigree and one cup of Beneful. That’s why i’m so worried,
May 30th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Trudy,
I’m so sorry your boy isnt well. He will be in our thoughts and prayers.
I have yet to see a recall on Beneful although have seen on Itchmo that many have become ill from it.
I thought when all this came out March 16th it would all be over in a week or two and the food would be safe. 2 1/2 months later & I dont think we have heard the end of it yet. Shame on the PFI and FDA for not taking care of this.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Martin, You are so right. It should be over. I have 3 other dogs and numerous cats that i love dearly. I am so upset I watch them all every minute of every day. My nerves are wearing out.
Thank you, Trudy
May 30th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
DMS and Anonymous mentioned a group to join that would put this out in the public eye where it so strongly belongs. I do not know if the Sierra Club would be able to help but I have heard they are concerned with the Chemtrails in the sky that they are spraying all over the world. So maybe they would be able to help get the word out? Just a thought to check out. If Anna is on she would do great in finding out this information too.
May 30th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Trudy Jackson I have been using Corelle since 1976 or when it first came out. I always thought that it was a type of ceramic that was like a fine expensive dinnerware but that would not break if dropped. I have dropped mine on several occasions and not one crack or break ever showed up. Stayed intact. Put my plates and bowls in both the micro and toaster over and they are still in same shape since 1976. Even since lead was found in all of the stonewear I was afraid to use any of it so stuck with the Corelle and will continue to use it along with all the glass I have been buying to replace all the plastic ware I have used over the years. Just think I had thrown out all the glass pans, etc when plastic was all the rage. Now would not dare heat any type of food or put any type of plastic in a microwave as the chemicals leach into the food so you have hot plastic as an added flavor to the food. I use glass only. Just wish they had more glass bowls with lids made out of glass that stayed closed to put food in.
May 30th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
Dogmom,
Thank you for the canidae info. I have found two local PetSmart stores that are supposed to carry it. I’m more than willing to try it. I checked out their website and liked what I saw.
Her ear problems are only on the very tips. Initially, she did have a couple of thickened, discolored spots on the inside, but those cleared up with betamethasone (which contains cortisone). We’ve also tried human cortisone cream, but it doesn’t seem to help any more than the other product. One vet prescribed miconozale nitrate cream and that showed slight improvement.
I’m definately looking into the yeast infection possibility and calling the pharmacy to recommend an anti-fungal shampoo. What about Activa yogurt or something? Would human drug Diflucan work? I happen to work with a retired OB/GYN and I can question him about systemic yeast infection.
May 30th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
# 4lgdfriend Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
FDA RELEASE THE NAME OF THE IDENITIFED 5TH TOXIN TO THE PUBLIC NOW
Can you relist all the main toxins found, I had them copied somewhere but I can’t find my list.
————————
Yes, and FDA start demanding these big food companies start testing for all 5, ( aminopterin, aflatoxin, glycerin/diethylene glycol,melamine derivatives,cyanuric acid ) instead of just melamine!, and not wait for the FDA to do it. Or wait for more pets dieing, and complaints from people or vets! I contacted a few pet food companies, and makers of treats. One for example here
http://www.dogswell.com/
Premium dog treats. They sound safe, however when I called them and asked where do they source the ingredients from, the company said China! This company claims they tested it for melamine and it was complete safe. I asked if they also tested for the other four contaminants. He didn’t even know what I was talking about! Where have they been for the past few months, living on the MOON? I informed these companies The practice is widespread in China, and they even admit spiking their own people and animals food. One man flat out refused to believe me! I believe, feel strongly, that these companies, animal & human food companies won’t do anything until animals & humans get ill or die. Do these people even think that maybe their precious product may not contain melamine, but it could contain cyanuric acid and react with the pet food/treat, or visa versa!
Why do they wait to do the right thing.
Is the 5th ingredient yeast, or other contaminants, adventitious agents and or viruses?
May 30th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Opps . . . Anonymous is me. Does it matter?
May 30th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
J.T./Anonymous
May 30th, 2007 at 11:38 pm , don’t be so smug.
It’s in the animal & human food chain, and what meat are you feeding your animals? It won’t matter if it’s homemake buddy, if the chicken, pork, fish, duck, turkey, has been fed with contaminated feed. Oh, yeah, your animals are vegetarians, only eating organic veggies. HA, do you know the water is pure, or what fertilizer they use, or if the seeds are GM seeds?
May 31st, 2007 at 12:34 am
well you may filter your water, but it’s not a Purifier now is it. Big difference between filtering water and PURIFICATION! I own a Berkey, so i ought to know.
Anyways my point is, you don’t know what’s in the water that they feed the animals, you feed to you from family & pets. Meat from Whole Foods, is that a company? Do you know personally what they do to the meat, or how they process it. It could be cloned, or GM for all you know. Unless you raise your own livestock, and garden, you have no clue what’s in the food.
Oh so it’s organic, RIGHTtttt! Totally free from anything like, Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy,Trichuris suis Ova, H5N1 avian virus, non contaminated feed, ect. What about the breads, cereals, crackers, and all the other foods your eat? Do you know 100% these companies don’t buy ANY of their ingredients from China, or other countries in question?
I think your very rude telling us here at Itchmo that we are “so dense”, or that I babble. You are in the same boat the rest of us are in, whether you admit it or not. Your pet and family food supply is not 100% safe. But you go right ahead and live in Lala land near the De Nile River!
Go educate yourself first, before you stroll in here and insult us that are asking for answers, and consoling each other from losses…….
May 31st, 2007 at 12:56 am
dear Anon,
Unless you are growing your own food for your animals you don’t know what feed and water was used in raising their or your food. People living in the city can’t keep a bunch of chickens and pigs out back, so let’s be realistic. Now we all know that most of the pet food is crap, and I do think there must be a few trustworthy producers out there. I’m not feeding commercial any more and my pets are only alive because I happened to pick those critical few months to feed raw. I do think the people food is far less contaminated than the pet food was, so I’m compromising by using storebought people food.For years everyone was told, including by our vets, not to feed people food. Not everyone is ready for that yet. And for the sake of owners who are mourning their dead animal companions, your tone sounds extremely judgemental and uncaring. People just have to believe that a well chosen people food diet can work for their pets, and it isn’t too much more expensive. It’s a huge change in thinking, but people won’t get their by being harassed by people like you.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:03 am
To Anonymous/J.T.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:25 am
The FDA/ USDA tells you it’s safe, puts their little stamp/seal of approval on it, so you buy it thinking it’s safe. You buy it. YOU BUY IT….
Well I don’t buy it. It’s not just the food companies that I don’t trust. It’s the FDA, CODEX, USDA, or any other the alphabet agencies. Need I remind you off all the many stamps, or government inspected, foods, meats, drugs out on the market that have been recalled in the past. Just google recalls.
keywords, organic baby food recalls, organic food recalls,vegetable recalls,drug recall, and the like. They said these products were safe, with the little seal of approval. Deal with it.
http://www.fda.gov/default.htm
I will not reply any further to you. Do some research like many of us here have done, and are still hard at work doing. “What the heck are they doing about it? Nothing!!!! Because they’re too busy posting their complaints through out the day.”.
You are so wrong! We are doing something! If it wasn’t for us , you wouldn’t have known about the recall. Thanks to Itchmo, and many, many people here at the forum, and petconnection, and all the others out there.
I’m getting tired, and off to bed now. Keep me posted about the bees too. I haven’t heard anything else about those tests.
good night all.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:05 am
[REDACTED BY ADMIN]
I’ve been shopping at Whole Foods for the past 15 years, and my family and pets are very healthy for it. But believe what you want!
Yes, they import . . . but I ask questions . . . and I buy what’s local. Period. They have signs put out as to where certain products come from.
I also shop the rest of the things I need from my local farmers’ market. Not rocket science people. Just common sense. Good night. I’m done trying to reason with some of these “educated” people here.
ITCHMO ADMIN: You are dangerously close to being banned. Calling people ignorant fools helps no one — regardless of how intelligent or good your argument is. Please refrain from insulting people to make your point.
UPDATE: You have been banned. Posting someone else’s email address without their consent is absolutely inappropriate.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:07 am
MEAT - beef from Whole Foods. One of the customers of my company processes the meat for Whole Foods. I asked if the meat was the real thing - not gmo’d, not full of preservatives, etc. He stated that all they do is cut off the head, hooves and tail then send the rest intact to Whole Foods that does its own processing and Whole Foods will not even put any type of saran or plastic wrap on the meat as they want it to be as fresh as possible. They realize it won’t have a long shelf life but that is how they do their beef in case anyone needed this information. He stated the meat is the REAL DEAL, no growth hormones, anti-biotics, all grass fed.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:30 am
*lol*
May 31st, 2007 at 1:35 am
whole food is not 100% “organic”.
http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/
They imports many items too, from countries growing genetic engineered foods. I shop at a small family owned health food store. They raise lamb & venison, and grow a small garden. It’s a small co op, however Organic does not mean your 100% safe. Don’t get lulled into thinking your buying premium foods. So unless you grow it yourself, or trust a small family owned co op grocery, I wouldn’t put my faith in some big company. World foods is just another big business company in my opionion, and not 100% safe from food contaminates.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:54 am
I have 2 big dogs, one little dog & 6 cats. I’m home feeding the dogs & feeding the cats canned Felidae for now, though I would like to cook for them also. I live alone & work very long hours at a relatively low paying job. My house payment isn’t that high & I’m not extrememly loaded with debt. Still, home cooking for the dogs & feeding 3 cans of food a day to the cats is REALLY EXPENSIVE!!!!
I cook them organic veggies but no way can I afford organic beef–it’s at least 5 dollars a pound. I was shopping safeway for their great deals on beef but everyone said it was horrible meat, so now I’m paying more at a local chain–I have no idea what the quality of meat is there but it’s twice as expensive. I’m spending hundreds a month on the dog food & over a hundred on cat food.
I was buying really expensive dry food for the dogs before the recall & it was a third of what I’m paying now. I could spend less feeding raw commercial for the dogs but I don’t trust it. The added work of cooking with my grueling work schedule & now dealing with a crf cat is incredibly hard.
My work hours are reduced starting next week & my job runs out at end of July. I’m unemployed for 2 months every summer (I teach at several community colleges). I job hunt every summer but there are no 2 month long jobs out there. I’m really worried how I will feed my pets this high-cost diet during that time.
Thing is, my story is not so bad & I feel very lucky to be able to do this much. There are many others on these forums that are in much worse financial shape & / or unable to prepare pet food at home because of physical or other limitations. Heck, I’m limited by a tiny fridge in a tiny house & no room for a freezer to stock up on meat. Bragging about 300 dollar water filters & shopping at the walmart of organic foods for organic meat & putting down everyone that can’t do the same is just arrogant & pompous. No, I take that back. It’s just plain sad, narrow-minded & sad.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:59 am
“As a result, we have been working with the manufacturers of our Whole Foods brand and 365 brand private label products and their suppliers to verify the GMO status of the major ingredients that could potentially be genetically modified. We are pleased to report that most of our products already do not use GMO varieties of these ingredients. Where GMO ingredients are present, we will replace them with non-GMO alternatives as soon as they are available.
Our goal of no-GMO ingredients in our Whole Foods market brand and 365 products is focused on accessing ingredients derived from non-genetically modified seeds. Unfortunately, absolute “GMO-free” guarantees cannot be made on any manufacturer’s product. Not only is it impossible to test every container of product, but currently there is no system in the United States to guard against drift from farmers using GMO seed that could potentially contaminate non-GMO crops.
Whole Foods own statement
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/Wh.....tement.htm
The FDA says GM foods are safe, and sellers don’t need to label anything sold to World Foods.
No food is 100% safe. Safer….maybe? But just because it costs more, Premium, do you really think it’s 100% safe?
Back to the topic, thanks Itchmo for the updates
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/.....01643.html
Anyone know all five contaminates yet?
May 31st, 2007 at 2:04 am
BTW–I do almost all of my shopping at a local natural food co-op. I’m a vegetarian so can afford the fresh regional veggies for me & the pets, but no way can I pay their beef prices in those tiny elite packages. My dogs eat 4 lbs of meat/day plus liver, hearts & bones throughout the week.
They do have good buys periodically on freerange chicken, which I get for the cats, but it’s raised by a large scale local company that uses the typical crowded polluting inhumane practices to raise their main brand chicken. The totally organic chicken is about 6 dollars a pound. But even if I have to shop the regular stores for beef for the dog food, I’m sure it’s still better than what they render down for the kibble. It makes me sick to think I may have to go back to that crap this summer!
May 31st, 2007 at 2:17 am
I agree petslave. It sounds like J.T., Anon was blaming us to for our pets illness or deaths because we dont buy from the “whole foods” company, trying to lay some guilt trip on us! Just do the best you can, money is tight for many people these days.
I sure hope his/her words don’t come back to haunt him/her later from boasting about that company.
g2g
ttyl
May 31st, 2007 at 2:18 am
Great post on the whole foods link, Beth. Up until the past month, I thought I was doing great buying all my fresh organic food as local as possible & stocking up on canned & boxed organic name brand items on sale. Now it turns out almost ALL prepared organic foods have at least some imported ingredients. Look for the Product of US note on label–there isn’t one. Look a the certifying agency–QAI is very commonly listed & specializes in organic imports. Big question–do you trust China to raise your organic food?
I’m sure many of these organic food companies are in this as much for money as the big bad guys. They could have a bit more of a concience or they could just be riding the wave for the bucks. A lot of them started out small then outgrew their home style production & faced the real corporate world. Most have been bought out by the big guys, but this has been discussed extensively on this site already. Time to sleep, doubt the dreams will be any better than reality.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:43 am
If i had dogs i would totally feed raw and only human food. with cats it’s not so easy.
One of my cats won’t even eat people food, not even meat.
I had enough trouble trying to coax him to eat the better foods.
For those who think we dont care or just complain , sigh… i wish they were here to see me combing the phone books for pet stores, spending hours and hours researching foods, driving all over the state finding these boutique foods and driving back to return them when my cat wouldn’t eat them..all while gas is the highest it’s ever been in my lifetime,,all while on disability, all with my primary hand in a splint and needing constant help just to shop for that food,
i tried fresh raw with wild caught salmon and sole and my one cat wasn’t having it.
Instead of starving him and force feeding him i’ve settled on the few foods i feel mostly good about that he will eat and just take it from there.
…people in glass houses
…just sayin
* also thank you ITCHMO ADMIN for being awake at this crazy hour and your rapid response to the violation of my privacy*
May 31st, 2007 at 2:54 am
I was wondering if anyone knows of a Grain-free Dry Cat food?
Of the many we talked about I can’t remember see this type. I’ve been in enough stores and shops and on the phone plenty but do not remember any of them mentioning one either.
I do know some have mentioned pet allergies with grains, and using canned foods I think. But I want to try another Dry.
Nothing wrong with what I have but want to eliminate Grains if I can, if it is even possible.
{Danged cat just has to have that Dry to nibble on! :-D }
Scheeesch what we won’t do for them :-P
Thanks in advance.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:56 am
innove EVO is grain free i believe. I don’t have the original bag anymore.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:56 am
*Innova EVO *
May 31st, 2007 at 2:58 am
Also wellness came out with a totally grain free dry for cats called CORE. most stores who carry wellness have samples. that’s how i got a few small bags to try. Wellness makes their own dry with the wet coming from a menu plant
May 31st, 2007 at 3:17 am
[…] See all latest news, recalls, entertainment, and local info. « FDA Press Conference […]
May 31st, 2007 at 3:35 am
Trudy Jackson,May 30th, 2007 at 8:16 pm, Says: “Is there anything wrong with corningware plates?”
They should be perfectly safe. Glass is made by melting sand (silicon dioxide) at very high temperatures, temperatures far above that at which plastics burns.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:08 am
DMS, 4:15 pm, says: “…A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten.
———————————————————————————–
Balt Sun: how do melamine levels found in aquabond and aquatech 2 compare to the levels of wheat flour in China?
A: way higher. the levels were 20%
Is it just me, or do these two statements contradict each other?”
Clearly, the FDA is not nearly as stupid as people want to make out. They are dealing with a very complicated situation, what with technical data that the public does not understand (just read the entire dfa stmt on the safety of eating the tainted pork and chicken, as an example). Given all of this, by their very nature, fda officials are not the best communicators.
They were probably talking about 2 different things. According to usatoday*, the 20% level was the highest seen in the pet foods, not the Aquabond product (of fish food).
* http://www.usatoday.com/money/.....call_N.htm
May 31st, 2007 at 4:31 am
mittens, May 30th, 2007 at 7:43 pm - Cats and dogs did not die just from eating melamine, since it is inert (does not break down in their systems). They died because there was at least one other non-food compound in the food, namely, cyanuric acid. It was the combination of the 2 that killed them. You really should read the melamine entry in wikipedia, from the Regulation section all of the way to the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#Regulation
The real culprits here are not the fda, but the unscrupulous Chinese that illegally adulterated the gluten to cheat their foreign (American) customers with a product that was not worth what they were paying for AND possibly harmful. Harmful, due to another illegal food additive, namely, cyanuric acid, which they also put into the wheat gluten!
May 31st, 2007 at 4:32 am
- - I’m sorry, the above anonymous was mine. - -
May 31st, 2007 at 6:43 am
I am anxiously awaiting the results of the Iams Food Test.
Sandi
May 31st, 2007 at 8:22 am
Here are some suppliers for BINDERS found in the Pet Food Industry 2006 Magazine. These are listed under the Category, Pellet Binder and Lubricant.
Badger Trading Company
http://www.badgertrading.com
Bill Barr & Co
http://www.billbarr.com
Bonimex
http://www.bonimex.com/WebSite.....x.nsf?Open
Dresen Quimica SA de CV
Address: ARTEMIO DEL VALLE ARIZPE Nº 16 - 401
MEXICO CITY, Distrito Federal, 03100
Col: Beneto Juarez
(Distributes and Manufactures CHEMICALS & ALLIED PRODUCTS, Chemical Preparations)
International Ingredient Corp
http://www.iicag.com/index.php
Mannasol Products Ltd
http://www.mannasolproducts.com
Oil-Dri Corp of America
http://www.oildri.com/agri/index.html
Premcem Gums Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.premcemgums.com
Sonac BV
http://www.sonac.biz/intro1.php
Sopropeche
http://www.directorypub.com/SR.....id=6000050
Trouw Nutrition USA LLC
http://www.trouw-nutritionusa......ge_key=442
Doing a very quick search, I found out polysaccharide gums, blood plasma, oligosacchrides and starch carbohydrate binders, which may include, but not be limited to, potato powder, cereal products or WHEAT GLUTEN, are also binders in feeds and pet foods.
There are category listings for gums, guar, etc. and oligosacchrides that I will get up here today.
_ _ _ _
“The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them.”
Lois McMaster Bujold, Diplomatic Immunity, 2002 US science fiction author
May 31st, 2007 at 9:39 am
Kelli- Wellness outsources now. They don’t make their own dry. I’m not sure where the core is made but when I called last Fri about the Wellness dog & cat dry that I had they told me it was made at ANI. They did say they run only their foods for 18 hrs & clean the equip before & after.[Don’t know if I believe that] Also they keep samples of every batch & are backtesting .So everything already on the store shelves should be safe.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:04 am
The FDA is a gutless bureaucracy populated by gutless bureaucrats.
I talked to many of them at the state and federal levels weeks before the contaminated pet food was fed to hogs and chickens and THEY DIDN’T HAVE A CLUE.
However, they were quite competent at telling me what they didn’t know and what they couldn’t do.
IMHO, they’re a bunch of uninterested morons.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:08 am
PetSlave your statement of :
Bragging about 300 dollar water filters & shopping at the walmart of organic foods for organic meat & putting down everyone that can’t do the same is just arrogant & pompous. No, I take that back. It’s just plain sad, narrow-minded & sad.
Pretty much said it all…..I agree with you 100%…….as well as spending tons of money for green products and making all your own products as the one poster on the other forum claims. You did a really good job at calling it like it is…….thank you….it’s about time someone did.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:38 am
” job hunt every summer but there are no 2 month long jobs out there. I’m really worried how I will feed my pets this high-cost diet during that time. job hunt every summer but there are no 2 month long jobs out there. I’m really worried how I will feed my pets this high-cost diet during that time.”
can you pick up some tutoring work? maybe help students with placemant tests, students that need to do summer make up work or need a leg up on the fall semester?
May 31st, 2007 at 11:18 am
Steve Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
November 20, 2006
A person describing him or herself as an “anonymous EPA employee†writes that an “atmosphere of fear, intimidation, and suppression… has permeated EPA for the past six years.â€
———————————————————–
I don’t know who this anonymous employee is, but someone who knows what is going on has to expose them. He or she could seek legal counsel first. I would. How can we fix the system if we don’t know what is going on? The people need to know about the closed door deals going on with the FDA, USDA, EPA, Presidents Admin. We need to know.
The press no longer investigates. All of the above lie and don’t ask, don’t tell. I’m sure people are intimidated. But public disclosure is the only possible way to break the cycle of intimindation. Why should anyone buckle to the cowards and meglamaniacs who use intimidation because they do not want the public to know what they are doing. You can be manipulated or do what is right and expose the truth.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:40 am
Anonymous Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 4:31 am
mittens, May 30th, 2007 at 7:43 pm - Cats and dogs did not die just from eating melamine, since it is inert (does not break down in their systems). They died because there was at least one other non-food compound in the food, namely, cyanuric acid. It was the combination of the 2 that killed them. You really should read the melamine entry in wikipedia, from the Regulation section all of the way to the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#Regulation
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But according to Wikipedia, which is not the most reliable source for info, my middle schooler could not even cite it in a bibliography, cyanuric acid is a byproduct of melamine. So where you have melamine, you could potentially have both melamine and cyanuric acid. Maybe that’s why melamine is not safe for human consumption.
———————————————————————————-
While some researchers have theorized that the three latter chemicals might have been formed as the animals metabolized the melamine, or as by-products of bacterial metabolism (cyanuric acid is a known intermediate byproduct of bacterial metabolism of melamine),
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanuric_acid
May 31st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Thanks for the Dry Grainless Cat food help.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
rockman13 Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 4:08 am
DMS, 4:15 pm, says: “…A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten
——————————
Rockman, you are right. That was an error in the live blog from the press conference. I did see the right info in the official usda transcript.
But I still do not give the USDA/FDA any credit for being forthcoming–it’s not a lack of communication skills, they are being deliberately evasive. They at least have some idea-after 12 days, if not longer-of how much and to whom these manufacturers supply. They know biuret, which i can repost the info for you , including countries that use it-us, contains cyanuric acid and I will try to find the info someone else posted on melamine being used in feed. If we can find it, you know they can. I believe, subjectively, that they have been complicit parties to this whole scheme and now the walls are crumbling all around them. Sooner or later, we will know the truth. I wonder how much damage has been done. Public trust is eroding, our food is not safe, gmo’s are running rampant–so much so that our exports are affected. Only we Americans will eat this garbage. Mostly because they have kept us in the dark purposely. They approve food additives before they have even fully investigated them. WE all know this is unsound. It’s time they take the heat.
ITCHMO ADMIN: Thanks. In the live blog, we have clarified that the 20% melamine level was in the pet food and not in the Aquabond/Aqua-tec II products.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:24 pm
I can’t speak to Canidae, but I use Felidae (same company but for cats), since the recall in March.
My cat was a bit reluctant at first, now eats it well. No diarrhea (switched her almost cold turkey), coat got smoother, her excessive weight gain is getting under control, her ears don’t itch any more, and her daily habit of throwing up (vet had no idea why, blah blah) has ended. She will do the occasional hairball still, but what a difference.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
I noticed on the FDA report that it did mention cattle too. First time I have heard of that. But figured they were feeding them too. Bet the reason they do not speak about the cattle taking melamine too is because of our imports! The do not want that to get out. What is this urea fromaldehyde doing in the food too and what would it do to us?
I am sure that horses, turkeys and all of the animals have been eating this melamine and urea formaldehyde in their food as well. But they do not care about horses or the dogs or cats. They have not said one time whether any of our pets would be harmed any more by eating the 80,000 chickens in our food supply.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:49 pm
High Note, Isn’t it millions of chickens?
May 31st, 2007 at 3:05 pm
furmom Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I knew the melacrap had to be going into cattle feed. It didn’t make sense that it was fed to hogs ,chickens and fish , but wasn’t going into any other feeds. All the stuff that was identified earlier was not just from pet food, that was to throw everybody off to the idea that it has been normal procedure to use this stuff since who knows when. …
… This was not just an open secret in China, American feed producers have known all this stuff all along. That’s why the fda doesn’t want specific products identified as having melamine compounds in them. People would be screaming, how did you let this go one for so long?
…………………..
Those of us who can afford to should get some of our HUMAN FOOD tested to see how many more products can be exposed for using the chemicals! Brand name breads, pastas, energy bars, pizza doughs, sports protein drinks, soups, sauces, and condiments… I’m sure we are all examples of the Accumulation Factor!
As far as the “cross contamination” issue from equipment… As others have stated, I don’t believe the contamination would be so strong if the machines were not cleaned at all or not fully cleaned between batches. It has been suggested that possibly the manufacturing companies keep a few spare bags of “pseudo-protein enhanced gluten” around to boost the protein content if testing of the end products revealed a protein shortage for a particular brand’s recipe. As long as the food analysis report shows that the protein count matches what the recipe calls for, who would know if real meat/fish protein is used or if pseudo-protein concentrate is used? And would some brand names actually care as long as the measured protein level met or surpassed the recipe’s requirements? Everybody would save a few bucks at the expense of the pets. The protein concentrates are much cheaper than real meat/fish. Let’s see… What is the phrasing: Guaranteed Analysis stated in minimums: ??% Crude Protein, minimum.
We are every bit as guilty as the Chinese. You can’t tell me that companies operating in the U.S. do NOT know that melamine is not approved for use in animal feeds and human foods. It’s the need for greed! I recommend a long jail sentence and a whopping financial penalty! Who knows what other toxic garbage we’re eating and for how long?
This revelation should cause a huge rush for everyone to
GET OFF
THE COMMERCIAL FOOD GRID
as much as possible.
Just rambling here… but I’d like to know what the TV show/segment about Walmart losing customers is about… it’s supposed to air tomorrow morning?? Anyone here know more details? Could the loss of customers be due to the boycotting of Chinese products??
May 31st, 2007 at 3:47 pm
I was able to catch the Walmart segment this morning. Their profit problem is due to their higher priced, better quality items that people weren’t buying. Seems folks prefer the “less expensive” stuff. Unless I didn’t get what they were saying, that’s what I got out of their little segment. It didn’t mention where Walmart got their less expensive products or what kind of quality they were.
I was hoping they would have reported people were boycotting because of their crappy products or because of the pet food thing…no.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:07 pm
And speaking of stuff on the news. What is really scarey is the guy that has the deadly TB that managed to fly around. Our screeners and folks at the border control in Canada didn’t detect what a health threat he was. GMA also reported that the computers had this info on him which pops right up and he never should have made it out of the country much less back in.
For those unfamiliar with this nightmare, the story goes like this: Unnamed guy has a deadly drug resistant form of TB. Something like 50 or so people in some country had it and all but one died. The guy was diagnosed with the TB and was advised not to leave the country or fly. Apparently it wasn’t a demand so he flew to Italy with his bride, then to Canada and drove back into the US where he turned himself in to some hospital where he is now quarantined.
He shuold have been quarantined immediately since this is such a deadly form, not necessarily ultra contagious though. He takes the selfish irresponsible approach and flies out of the country….possibly infecting all those people not only on the plane but at the airport. Does it again to Canada and drives back into the country…still undetected. Homeland security at its best. And yes, again, our tax dollars at work. See how easy it is for someone to start a pandemic here? Yet they’ll hassle an 80 year old woman in a wheel chair over shampoo in an over night bag.
With all the talk you hear about homeland security, and this and that with our government, am I wrong to expect a little more? Now, our tax dollars are being spent on trying to round up all those people that were on those planes or that could have been in contact with him on his little trek.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Follow up on TB guy
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3231235
May 31st, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Debbie,
I sometimes wonder if they allow things like this to happen, so when people cry out for help, they can pass tougher laws in homeland security. I mean yes they KNEW he has this deadly drug resistant form of TB, They should have detained him.
But I don’t want to be detained for sneezing in allergy season either! Sometimes when they pass these new laws, they just go overboard, tasering or hassling little old lady’s at the airport.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Anonymous,
I agree about testing people food. At the press conferences there were a lot of non-answers when reporters asked questions as to whether the gluten in our food was being checked.
And their answer that the SUPPLIERS are having to check the food the FDA is blocking and ASSURE is with the proper paperwork that it has been tested? Our FDA needs to be doing the testing. The Chinese have proven over and over that they don’t mind altering paperwork, or putting poison in our food, and we should trust them to assure us?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:46 pm
The Maricopa County Health Department has a man detained over his TB. He has some drug resistant form, he refused to take the proper steps rquired for his voluntary quarantine…..so he has been detained for many months now. There has been some out cry over Sheriff Joe doing this…..this is one time I agree with what he is doing. A few weeks ago, the man was begging for a second chance and to be released. I feel real bad for the guy and his family, but he should have followed directions. The most recent issue is the cost of his lockup….I think it would be much more costly if he wasn’t locked up.
TB patient costing taxpayers
Quarantined man’s bills average $50,000 a month
Yvonne Wingett
The Arizona Republic
May. 31, 2007 12:00 AM
Maricopa County residents are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills racked up by a tuberculosis patient who is under lockdown by health authorities at the county hospital.
Robert Daniels has spent nearly 10 months in a sealed room on the fourth-floor at Maricopa Medical Center’s jail ward. The 27-year-old suffers from a dangerous TB strain that is drug-resistant and is under court-ordered confinement because he broke the rules of voluntary quarantine and exposed others to a potentially deadly illness. He is considered a patient of the county’s public health department.
Daniels’ hospital bills average about $50,000 monthly and include overnight stays in the sealed room, medicine and visits to doctors, said Mary Lee DeCoster, vice president of revenue cycle at Maricopa Integrated Health System. It runs the county hospital. advertisement
From July 28, 2006, through March 31, 2007, the bills added up to about $510,000. Maricopa Medical Center gives a discounted rate to the county, which had to pay $389,293.69. Billing statements from April and May are on their way to county health officials.
“This is definitely an unusual situation,” said Shawn Nau, director of the county’s General Government Department. “Every once in a while, there’s one of these cases that ends up costing a lot of money.”
Maricopa County keeps a contingency fund to pay for these types of court-ordered quarantine cases, Nau said. Typically, the county pays out $100,000 or less a year to take care of such people, he said, on average about three or four people yearly.
Tuberculosis is spread by airborne contact and was among the leading causes of death in the first part of the 20th century. Daniels contracted the virus while living in Russia, according to Maricopa County Superior Court filings.
May 31st, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Debbie,
I just heard on the news that his father in law worked for the CDC lab, and worked with this strain of TB! The rest of the interview with the infected man will be aired on Good Morning America tomorrow. I wonder why he left the country to get married, when he knew he was infected with this. Maybe the woman dad didn’t like her choice for a hubby……
I’ll watch the interview in the morning. Thanks for the info.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Has anyone seen on T.V news about Coke and Pepsi? A preservative that has been found to break down DNA and may cause Liver damage and may cause Parkinson’s. They said it was Sodium Benzoate (sp). It suppose to prevent mold in sodas.
So what else is on the list of not to eat and now drink? sigh…..
May 31st, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Flamin,
Thanks for the update. I did see on the news tonight some more about it, mostly what you just wrote. Does seem odd that his father in law works for the cdc and is involved with TB. Suspicious? Maybe….and I didn’t catch on the news why he didn’t just stay put, only that he wasn’t feeling any symptoms as yet. From what I’ve gathered on the news he know he had a deadly strain and was only advised not to travel.
True, everyone that merely sneezes shouldn’t be detained, but geez, a deadly form of TB? Deb posted some info about how much it costs, out of our pockets I guess in this case too(???). That’s a hunk of change, but worth it in my book to keep him away from the public.
I won’t have a chance to see GMA tomorrow, so if you do see it, please post what they say.
This may not be a pet food or a people food issue, but it does once again prove our government in incapable of protecting us.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:15 pm
thanks flamin for that bit of wierd news on the TB guy. I had accused myself of going “Tom Clancy” over at PC because I was wondering if there was any bothersome background story to come of this event. This no longer sounds like it did initially to me, when I had calmed down as the guy said “oh gosh, I just had NO idea this was SOOOOO bad, ie I am just a dumb old good boy”. Well, okay, with a nasty streak because he kept going when they tried to pin him down and ultimately had to chase him down. Like, he didn’t discuss the TB and its type with good old CDC worker Dad? Got infected via some connection to his Dad? Oddly enough, I remember the CDC saying that despite the guy’s protestations, they HAD clearly told him what he had, and why it was so deadly serious.
But honestly, it is just another instance of NOBODY watching at the helm. We know about this guy, we don’t do a thing. We know about crappy imports, but we don’t do a thing.
If a bad guy did this, and at the same time others did a food supply taint number on us, our import/export policies have left us with NO safe food reserves to fall back upon, and few small local people who could help provide us with the food we would need for us and pets in a deliberate homeland security style disaster/attack because those independent farmers and ranchers are being run out of business by our foreign importation policies (much easier to implement by using big agri-businesses who see it the USDA/govt’s way, due to all the perks they get and the tax breaks for their “cooperation.”).
Grim. At this point, I just hope all this, the TB thing and the food thing is ONLY due to human ignorance, deliberate profit greed, and not for more nefarious reasons. I will watch for any reviews here of that morning show tomorrow (don’t get local tv here).
May 31st, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Deb read this breaking news.
Japanese students held in Canada over measles
Updated Thu. May. 31 2007 9:09 PM ET
Canadian Press
Federal officials have invoked the Quarantine Act to block Japanese students from flying home after departure screening revealed one of the students is ill with symptoms that could be measles.
The group is being held at the quarantine station at Vancouver International Airport while authorities make arrangements to put them up while they are being quarantined. They could detain them for up to 16 days
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....hub=Canada
My luck I would sneeze, and be detained til they take their time testing me. I would miss my children, and puppy:(
Ruth, I read a few years ago, coke and pepsi could contain nanos! I wonder if it is Sodium Benzoate, or nanos? Strange times we live in!
May 31st, 2007 at 9:39 pm
TC “Grim. At this point, I just hope all this, the TB thing and the food thing is ONLY due to human ignorance, deliberate profit greed, and not for more nefarious reasons. I will watch for any reviews here of that morning show tomorrow (don’t get local tv here).”
I don’t know TC, I just don’t think it was due to human ignorance. It’s to big, and been happening for to long! Was it a deliberate act, for profit & greed? Yes, and what about the other thing, for nefarious reasons?
Well the earth is really limited on space, water, food, resources…. Maybe tptb wish to…dare I say it, cull the population?
Nah. Probably just greed………
May 31st, 2007 at 9:53 pm
I LOVE THIS!! And I think it is highly pertinent to our current situation.
I for one, IMHO, think we are living in a Kakistrocracy!
Definition: Kakistocracy
You may want to search Wiktionary for “Kakistocracy”.
Kakistocracy, rule by the least-able or least-principled of citizens, is a form of government in which the people least qualified to control the government are the people who control the government.
The origin of this word is Greek, derived from the superlative of the Greek adjective kakos (bad), the superlative form being kakistos (worst).
A modern day example (although fictitious), could include the structure of an office from Dilbert, where the least qualified employees within the office receive the bulk of the promotions and hold the highest and most powerful positions. However, few examples exist since the term is used far more for criticizing a current administration, similar to Trotskyists designation of state socialism as state capitalism
May 31st, 2007 at 9:53 pm
The local news had the PHX TB infected dude on today. I do feel bad for the guy….the filmed in from outside the sealed room he lives in. He has a wife and young kids, he knows he is going to die and being stuck in the room….well…..it must really suck to be him. It seems every couple of weeks, his story pops up. I remember reading an article that there was talk about sending back to Russia, I don’t know what became of that….it would be a pretty good idea…..the taxpayers of Maricopa have other issues with the border so close….education is poor here….I’ll stop right there with that one.
As far as costs……this is the first article I noticed about cost of his private suite….BUT…..this is the price “WE” have to pay. He should have listened and followed directions. This guy, like the CDC’s son in law….both claim they did not know how bad TB was!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t buy that statement from either one of them. Apparently Russia is loaded with TB…maybe they don’t think iit all that bad over there….there’s social issues in Russia….ok….maybe he didn’t understand…..MAYBE. The CDC’s son in law….he is an educated man…..I am too sure his father in law filled in him. Both of these men are very selfish people…there is no excuse for them. They should be in lockdown…..away from the rest of us.
Now dig this one……the reason why the PHX dude was on TV….that bleeding heart civil liberty group wants to release him. I have no clue how this group works….maybe these lawyers work for free (it snows in hell too?) but someone is paying for this too. All this guy had to do was wear a mask and take his meds……that’s it. Now he is in lockdown….and the taxpayers are paying his way!!!!!!!!!
Good thing is, on the board postings many people are questioning OUR rights as healthy people. He has infringed upon the rights of every one he has been near. I pity those people who were trapped on a plane with the other selfish man. Maybe I am cold and cruel…..I do understand they did not plan on getting this strain of TB and the should be ‘punished’ for being sick……BUT…..the welfare of an entire community has to be considered first……before the welfare of one.
I wonder if his ACLU lawyer feels so committed to his release….that she would bring him home with her or even want him as a neighbor. I doubt it.
ACLU files lawsuit against county for treatment of TB patient
Dennis Wagner
The Arizona Republic
May. 30, 2007 09:11 PM
A federal lawsuit filed Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union alleges that Maricopa County officials have violated the rights of a quarantined tuberculosis patient for months by treating him as a criminal.
The U.S. District Court complaint on behalf of Robert Daniels alleges health officials and the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office have violated numerous constitutional rights and the Americans with Disabilities Act.
The suit asks that Daniels be housed in appropriate accommodations, rather than the severe and “inhumane” jail conditions.
“It’s good news for me,” Daniels said Wednesday evening. “I finally have a chance to get out of this black hole.”
Robert England, the county’s tuberculosis control officer, declined comment. Other county health officials were not immediately available.
Daniels, 27, has been isolated in a jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center for 10 months under court order, although he was not convicted or charged with any crime.
Linda Cosme, an attorney for Daniels, said her client has been victimized by constitutional violations. “Robert is helpless,” she added. “And he’s at the mercy of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He needs as much support as possible, and the ACLU is supplying that support.”
Arpaio said Daniels is confined under court order, and must abide by security measures. “I run a safe jail, and he’s going to be treated like anyone else,” he said.
Daniels, who holds dual United States and Russian citizenship, moved to Arizona in January 2006 after contracting extreme multi-drug-resistant (XDR) TB, in Moscow, where he has a wife and 5-year-old son.
Daniels, who spent his teen years in Scottsdale, said he returned to the United States in search of work and a college education. Months later, he became severely ill and was placed in a county sanitarium for indigent TB patients.
Dr. Maricela Moffitt, a county physician, has testified that Daniels willfully failed to take his medications, decreasing the likelihood that last-chance drugs would cure his deadly disease. Moreover, Moffitt alleged, Daniels endangered others by going out in public and entertaining visitors without wearing a mask.
Daniels has insisted that he did not understand the contagiousness or gravity of his condition, in part because TB patients in Russia do not wear masks. Daniels also has said he missed taking medications a few times because he overslept, not intentionally.
In August, a Maricopa County Superior Court commissioner ordered Daniels placed under involuntary quarantine. The jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center is considered the only Valley facility equipped for such confinement, so Daniels was housed under the supervision of sheriff’s detention officers.
According to court records, Daniels has spent much of his time in custody without a phone, TV, radio, shower or hot water. Windows are screened. Video cameras monitor constantly. Lights remain on 24 hours.
Earlier this week Daniels said he was told that his TB bacteria may be developing resistance to all antibiotics, and a portion of his lungs might require surgical removal. He said he was advised to write letters to his child in Moscow so the boy would have communication before his father’s death.
Cosme, the attorney, described Daniels as extremely depressed and fragile due to isolation and stress. She said the ACLU will soon file motions seeking an expedited hearing and an injunction to immediately improve Daniels’ treatment.
According to county documents obtained by The Arizona Republic through a public records request, Daniels’ confinement spawned a dispute among medical workers about the ethics and legality of his quarantine conditions.
In a Dec. 11 email, Inmate Health Services nurse Nancy Turco complained to Dr. Moffitt that the patient “really doesn’t need to be in a detention unit (because) it is not the least restrictive setting appropriate,” as required by state law.
Turco, who eventually quit her job and became an advocate for Daniels, followed up with a Jan. 3 email complaining about detention officers. “This patient is not arrested and has nothing to do with MCSO other than taking up a room in their ward,” Turco wrote. “It is clear, Marci, that your job is to protect the public. However, depriving a person of basic rights is wrong.”
Moffitt answered with a message that said: “The loss of liberty by our patients is not taken lightly by me. But you must realize that I also need to defend the citizens of Maricopa County. Unfortunately, this patient has lied repeatedly to me (and TB staff) and did … threaten many innocent persons.”
On Wednesday, Daniels said: “I’m slowly dying in this room. I didn’t realize how serious this (TB) was, and I regret that, but nothing justifies the kind of treatment I’ve received in here. The solitary confinement starts to mess with your head and it has taken a serious toll on my body.”
May 31st, 2007 at 9:59 pm
A friend just emailed this to me, and I think it is highly pertinent to our current situation.
I for one, IMHO, think we are living in a Kakistrocracy!
Definition: Kakistocracy
You may want to search Wiktionary for “Kakistocracy”.
Kakistocracy, rule by the least-able or least-principled of citizens, is a form of government in which the people least qualified to control the government are the people who control the government.
The origin of this word is Greek, derived from the superlative of the Greek adjective kakos (bad), the superlative form being kakistos (worst).
A modern day example (although fictitious), could include the structure of an office from Dilbert, where the least qualified employees within the office receive the bulk of the promotions and hold the highest and most powerful positions. However, few examples exist since the term is used far more for criticizing a current administration, similar to Trotskyists designation of state socialism as state capitalism
May 31st, 2007 at 10:12 pm
wow, scary stuff Deb! I wonder where this is all going. Some contaminates viruses, can be passed along in our food and water supplies. What would happen if melamine turned out to be ebola, or some contagion in the pet food, or people food supply someday. Where would they detain/quarantine large amounts of people, or animals?
But that could never happen, now could it.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:27 pm
I think the FDA should definitely be checking human food. In my own opinion, I think they really must have already, could they really have neglected to check human food when every other type of feed is contaminated? Now they haven’t said anything, and with our government that makes me think the worst. Surely they would have said if all is well. Do they have the melamine inventor sitting on the FDA? I bet they know our food has been contaminated for a long time. And still, this is getting very little press. The Tembec article was on page 4 of my local paper. That’s the closest this whole thing has gotten to the front page yet. To sum it up they say the FDA says all is well, very little risk. Private companies following FDA’s proactive advice to be vigilant. We’re on top of it. They are just feeding us the government line.
If the FDA won’t test our food, I believe we do need to. Someone has to do it. I’m just not sure why other countries’ governments are looking out for them, but we can not get the same protection. REalistically, I know it is money, but how can they be so blatantly corrupt and get away with it. How can they justify their decisions to themselves? All this talk we are doing, it means nothing to them. They have a separate agenda and it doesn’t include looking out for the consumer. Known carcinogens are approved food additives, gmo’s are an experiment with our health and our whole environment–not to mention the world’s food supply. Any company that invents any food additive or drug has a good chance of getting approved, even if it suspected of being dangerous. They pull out the POOMA figures in their peer reviewed research, if it ever gets that far. Everyone in statistics knows what POOMA figures are–pulled out of my @$$! It seems to me the FDA is saying, prove it isn’t safe; otherwise there is not indication that it is dangerous. It should be prove to me it is safe. Over the long term. Then take a the cautious step of adding it to people’s food or medicine cabinet. There is no urgent need for melamine supplements or sodium benzoate, or cancer causing dyes. How does this risk outweigh the advantage?
May 31st, 2007 at 10:30 pm
wikipedia::
Sodium benzoate is used as a preservative, effectively killing most yeasts, bacteria, and fungi. It is effective only in acidic conditions (pH
May 31st, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Sodium benzoate is used as a preservative, effectively killing most yeasts, bacteria, and fungi. It is effective only in acidic conditions (pH
May 31st, 2007 at 10:33 pm
I agree with his lockdown, he didn’t follow direction. He sealed his own fate. Apparently this room in the jail is the only place the county can detain him….this is where he needs to be. I do agree that the guy needs a tv with cable, internet and the right to shower. I don’t think he should be set free.
I hate to sound this way…I don’t live right next to the border….but close enough. I think it is fair to say, most people are aware of the illegal border crossing issues. I don’t know how to put this with out sounding really rude…..you have to wonder what the state of these people’s health is when they enter this country. We can have cases of this funky TB walking across our borders daily. It’s scary…..but there is really nothing we can do….hope if someone has it….they are responsible enough to take care of their own health issues?? That’s about it.
Flamin….the Feds torn the the WWII containment camps in Florence, AZ. You bring up a good point…..if it ever comes to that where would they be? Just think of all the bleeding hearts out there…..that would try to stop the building of a center. Then there is the issue of….not in my backyard.
I wonder if CDC was the number of cases of this stain or any strain of TB posted on the site.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:35 pm
ok that was weird..lets try again..from wikipedia
Sodium benzoate is used as a preservative, effectively killing most yeasts, bacteria, and fungi. It is effective only in acidic conditions (pH
May 31st, 2007 at 10:36 pm
what is going on ITCHMO ADMIN??
it keeps cuttying off all my posts..theres a big block of text that wont post…3 tries
anyway everyone read wikipedia on sodium benzoate
May 31st, 2007 at 10:56 pm
This was in today’s ‘paper’ also. I know no one will die from fake Nikes…BUT…..the level of trust and good business practices……doesn’t seem to be a popular practice in the Mainland.
2 plead guilty in conspiracy to smuggle fake Nike shoes from China
Sean Holstege
The Arizona Republic
May. 31, 2007 01:40 PM
Two defendants pleaded guilty in an international conspiracy to smuggle fake athletic shoes from China through Arizona.
Federal prosecutors described the case, which involved a plot to dump 135,000 knock-off Nike shoes on U.S. markets, as one of the nation’s biggest counterfeit busts.
Smugglers tried to skirt export laws by giving an undercover U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent $25,000to falsify records for 15 cargo containers full of shoes. The shoes were unloaded in Los Angeles and bound for Mexico through Nogales.
The falsified records would have illegally allowed the counterfeit shoes to be distributed throughout the United States, at retail value of $16 million.
With the guilty pleas Tuesday of defendants from China and Hong Kong, five of the six suspects have been convicted. Two Texans and a defendant from Mexico have also pleaded guilty. Another Hong Kong man remains a fugitive, and is believed to be hiding in China.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:02 pm
basically sodium benz occurs naturally in acidic fruits and veggies. In organic cranberries for example, they contain much higher levels than what’s in soda.
being a soda drinker i had to look into this after reading here.
it’s a natural substance, not chemical, not like melamine.
the wiki entry did say cats are sensitive to this more than rats or dogs which makes me wonder about all the natural cat foods i’m using that have cranberries and that stuff in them.
As far as we as humans are concerned if we eat alot of fruit or fruit juice we are taking in way more than what’s in a cola.
my 2 cents.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:17 pm
Must have been a Freudian slip in my last post. I meant to end with the question, “How does the (alleged) advantage outweigh the risk?” But I guess it can go either way these days. What is the alleged advatage anyway, Cheap? EAsy? Portable? Even if it is known to be a carcinogen, or damaging to our health in some other way? Even if there is a suspicion, we should not have it in our food. Most people are not even aware of some of the risks they are taking everyday just by eating and feeding their children. And we should not have to spend hours each day researching our food, calling manufacturers, getting the run around, following up with an email. And there are new additives all of the time. It’s all about mass production and getting new products to market, cornering and dominating that market. First, in the 80’s and 90’s, we sat back while the big companies grabbed up a good percentage of the family farms. They have consolidated most of the food processors and manufactures and have gone global. There’s no end to their appetites. But the FDA is in the powerful position of gate-keeper between us and them. And they have failed us miserably. Their operating philosophy seems to be “there is no indication, so we are not going there.” A truly proactive position would be “we’re there already, checking it out.” And I believe they are where they want to be. The whole system seems to be built on growth that is so explosive it can not be monitored. If they can only check 1.3% of imports, the rate of growth is out of proportion to the fortification of the safety infrastructure that should support it. Growth unchecked is a cancer. Eventually, it will destroy the entire organism. The same goes for our domestic mega conglomerates and the producers that feed into them. The system is too large for the appropriate checks and balances. We can’t even keep tabs on the FDA. And this leads me right to our government’s back door. The question for me is, are these the people we want watching out for us anymore?
May 31st, 2007 at 11:22 pm
kellie, just because sodium benzoate is natural substance, don’t be lulled into a false sense of security. Mitochondrial disruption is pretty serious stuff. Are you sure about the ratios of a soda drinker to a fruit eater? Nitrates are natually occuring, but strongly suspected if not proven to cause blood cancers. Uranium is a natural substance and lots of other dangerous elements and compounds. You don’t want to load up on them.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Holy cow. Here is an update to the story - so much for “ignorance”. And I am in the legal field as well. And from that perspective, I hope they hang him high, cause I don’t need peers this stupid. He knew what he was doing.
Link:http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TUBERCULOSIS_INFECTION?SITE=KGW&TEMPLATE=USHEADS.html&SECTION=HOME
globe-trotting Atlanta lawyer with a dangerous strain of tuberculosis was allowed back into the U.S. by a border inspector who disregarded a computer warning to stop him and don protective gear, officials said Thursday. The inspector has been removed from border duty.
The unidentified inspector explained that he was no doctor but that the infected man seemed perfectly healthy and that he thought the warning was merely “discretionary,” officials briefed on the case told The Associated Press. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the matter is still under investigation.
The patient was identified as Andrew Speaker, a 31-year-old personal injury lawyer who returned last week from his wedding and honeymoon trip through Italy, the Greek isles and other spots in Europe. His new father-in-law, Robert C. Cooksey, is a CDC microbiologist whose specialty is TB and other bacteria.
Cooksey would not comment on whether he reported his son-in-law to federal health authorities. Nor did the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention explain how the case came to their attention. However, Cooksey said that neither he nor his CDC laboratory was the source of his son-in-law’s TB.
Speaker is now under quarantine at a hospital in Denver. He is the first infected person to be quarantined by the U.S. government since 1963.”
May 31st, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Sorry the link looks wierd - the story is at kgw.com, and likely all over the ‘net by now. What I posted was just an excerpt - there is more of the article at that link. Will try once more below:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....CTION=HOME
May 31st, 2007 at 11:39 pm
DMS,
yes i’m sure i read for about 2 hours on the subject.
I found it occurs naturally in acidic fruits and veggies in high concentrations, same as methane does in tomatoes and the likes.
i’m not lulled into a false sense of anything. There is enought serious toxins everywhere, i’m just not going to get alarmed about something that is made by friut acids and not a chemical company.
i am against flouride in water and toothpaste if that gives you an idea of how not “lulled” i am. :-)
May 31st, 2007 at 11:54 pm
sorry, kellie, i certainly didn’t mean to offend you. i may have put it too awkwardly. i am just so suspicious of the additive makers comparisons of their additives to whole natural foods. They did the same thing with nitrates and green leafy vegetables. I have read, and cannot give you any evidence, this is purely asubjective idea from a holistic article i once read that whole foods often contain compounds that may be toxic when isolated, but are counteracted by other compounds in the whole food. Now i would not want the FDA to base decisions on this philosophy, I think we do need science and have been screaming for it lately with the safe levels of melamine and its analogues in our food. I will investigate the levels of sodium benzoate in fruits and vegies, of course considering how much of those particular ones the average person eats each day compared to someone who drinks some odd number of sodas a day.
I really did not mean to be condescending. Sorry if I offended you.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:15 am
Kellie, I do not mean to be a thorn in your side, and I know cranberries contain vitamin C, but the article I read
http://www.nutraingredients-us.....a-re-opens
says that one problem the fda was finding is higher than allowed levels of sodium benzoate in sodas. The Sodium benzoate and ascorbic acid react in the acidic environment of the soda and form benzene which is not considered a safe ingredient. I know i heard something about this last year. It’s a case of two seperately believed harmless ingredients combining into a harmful one.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:30 am
TC….The lawyer, I just don’t understand his claim of not knowing ‘just how bad it was’….apparently he is not a very bright man….but he is educated. One would this his father-in-law would have had a chat with him? Then the border inspector….disregarding the warning because he looked healthy??? Who else has Mr Border inspector let in? Something is really wrong with this one.
The lawyer is in a private room in a hospital? Why? I think it would have been a better move to have him bunk with the guy in PHX. It would be more cost effective.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:32 am
you did not offend me DMS
it’s all good.
i have no problem with healthy civil debates.
June 1st, 2007 at 12:35 am
DMS,
with all the other things i have given up lately, i’m just not ready to abandon my soda just yet.
June 1st, 2007 at 2:06 am
Kellie, I hear ya. I have a soda once in a while, too. And have been known to give the kids a hot dog or two. I almost feel that there is nothing to eat with confidence anymore. I’m totally stressed out cooking for the kids. Even the dogs! I don’t want the kids to become overly worried, but I want them to grow up learning not to take things at face value, to check it out for themselves. Sometimes i think I’m overreacting, maybe we could go out to a restaurant again, only to hear something else that reinforces my suspicions. I really am over the edge with this, and I want to see some changes. I want to do something to help, but I am not sure where to start. I know this cause isn’t entirely futile because I have seen change happen, albeit slowly, in my lifetime. In the 70’s, they said recycling would never be economically viable. Well, now it is. So here I am, trying to inform myself, sending letters, making calls, buying organic. I’m even thinking of going back to school. I am really that fed up.
But I do respect everyone else’s decisions and opinions here. At least we are doing our own best to come up with some answers and make informed decisions. The truth is out there somewhere in the shades of grey.
Everyone out there has helped me to sort this out for myself. And get through it because from listening to mainstream media, I thought no one really cared.
June 1st, 2007 at 2:24 am
DMS,
I care. And i’m right there with ya in the feeling helpless dept.
All we can do is urge companies and gov. to change. if that gets us nowhere then all we can do is try to educate ourselves, read both sides of the debates and go with our gut about what to eat and what to avoid.
June 13th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
[…] spoke to a representative at HBH Pet Products today and he said that the recall went up on Monday. Aquabond, which was found to have contained melamine and related compounds, was used in these products. A contracted manufacturer for HBH Pet Products alerted HBH Pet […]
September 27th, 2007 at 4:01 am
[…] our daily email digest or subscribe in a RSS reader.In May of this year, Tembec was under fire for adding melamine as a binding agent in livestock, fish, and shrimp feed. The feed was used for both domestic use and was exported to 13 other countries. A recall on the […]
February 26th, 2012 at 1:00 am
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