FDA Press Conference
Itchmo liveblogged the 3pm Eastern Time FDA Press Conference. This is not a transcript, but a record of the event.
Here is a summary of today’s FDA press conference: (Press relase is now available on the FDA site)
Recall of ingredient: The source of contamination is within the US and is not related to the pet food recalls. Two companies are recalling their feed ingredients because melamine was used to make livestock and fish feed. The first company called Tembec, Toledo, OH makes Aquabond and Aqua-tec II which is used for fish and shrimp feed. This is used for both domestic use and is exported. The second company called Unisource, Inc., Johnstown, CO makes Xtra-bond which is used for livestock feed and is for domestic use only. Tembec distributes to Unisource. Tembec added melamine to the product even though melamine is not an approved additive for feed. FDA is warning companies to stop adding melamine to their feed products.
How did the FDA find out about this? Unisource tested their product for melamine and it came back positive for melamine. The FDA found out about this on Friday, May 18 and on that next Monday, FDA began its investigation of Uniscope and Tembec. FDA is saying that they are raising companies’ awareness and to be wary of their suppliers. Today, May 30, is the first day of the recall.
The FDA is suggesting that Tembec was using melamine not as a protein source but to improve the binding properties of the feed pellets. At this point, the investigation is still continuing, so the FDA cannot comment on what they have found in their investigation, how long this has been going on, and what if any punishment will occur to Tembec for putting in melamine in a feed product. The FDA is also not aware how much feed is out there and will also not comment on what other countries have received the Aquabond and or Aqua-tec II. The product is meant for commercial fish feed and not for tropical or pet fish.
Human Safety: The FDA assures us all that there is very low risk to humans. The estimated levels in the Xtra-bond is less than 50 parts for million of melamine or melamine-related compounds. The estimated levels in the Aquabond and Aqua-tec II are 230-460 parts for million of melamine or melamine-related compounds.
The full liveblog after the jump.
The FDA briefing will be on the recall of products tainted with melamine.
The panel:
–David Acheson, M.D., assistant commissioner for food protection, Office of the Commissioner, FDA
–Kenneth Petersen, D.V.M., M.P.H., assistant administrator for field operations, Food Safety and Inspection Service, USDA
–Michael Rogers, director, Division of Field Investigations, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
–Kim Young, deputy director of Compliance, Center for Veterinary Medicine, FDA
–Captain David Elder, director, Office of Enforcement, Office of Regulatory Affairs, FDA
–Michael Herndon, Office of Public Affairs, FDA
Conference begins.
Herndon introduces.
Acheson: telling us a recall of the ingredient that is in live feed for fish and livestock
1) source of the contamination is within the US
2) not directly related to the pet food situation
voluntary recall with two companies
1) Tembec, Toledo, OH - makes aquabond and aqua-tec 2 and distributes to Uniscope- used for fish feed- is for exported and domestic use
2) Uniscope, Johnstown, CO- makes X-trabond- used for livestock feed- for domestic use
-all products are binding agents used to feed cattle, fish, shrimp
-melamine is not an approved additive and the companies have stopped adding melamine to the feed product
we’re advising companies to recall finished feed from aquabond but not for x-tra bond. estimated in the x-tra bond is less than 50 parts of million– estimated levels in auqabond is 200-460 parts for million of melamine and mel. related compounds
these estimated levels vary due to the different levels of melamine and dilution in final product
scientists determined that the consumption of pork, fish and chicken is still highly unlikely for humans to be at risk
Q and A:
NYT: how did you find out about this? how long has this gone on? any criminal probe?
A: this came to our attention because uniscope brought it to our attention. we have raised awareness to manuf and to be vary of suppliers- they used a product that could be potentially contain melamine and tested it themselves to a private lab and found it to be present. they informed us of the situation- FDA is proactive in communicating with the industry and taking our respons seriously.
-we’ve published our analytical methods so companies can analyze. they brought this to our attention on evening of may 18 and then on monday, FDA begin its investigations and invest are ongoing and we will not comment on the invest.
Washington Times: there have been steps taken in China in re: to their food problems. do you have any thoughts of these actions that they are taking will be effective in making Chinese food exports safe?
A: we can’t say anything about their actions. we met with them recently and working with them on food safety issues.
Q: if the chinese take actions, then the authorities in our country should have thoughts on them?
A: can’t comment on their actions and their recent actions may not be assoc with the food safety concerns-
Boston Globe: do you have sense that this it? are there other recalls that we should expect?
A: right from the beg of the calls, we’ve been acknowledging that food safety is an international and domestic issue. we’re not aware that it has gone beyond that. we are still continuing to invest. hopefully the awareness of companies will be raised.
Q: how much cont. feed is out there?
A: we don’t know at this point. that is info that will be gathered during the invest. this recall is starting today and we are working with firms in exec of this recall.
Tribune Media: all began in March with pet food- if everything has been held up in border, at what point can we say that pet foods are absolutely and undoubtedly safe? at what point will there be no recalls?
A: things that we put in place at the border will prevent protein conc from coming in- this does not mean that a particular manuf doesn’t have something in a warehouse- hopefully the raising awareness part will help- it’s hard to believe that a pet food manuf wouldn’t know something about it- we have put as many controls we can as much as possible. 1) put controls on what comes into the country; 2) if something is currently being used and is not being tested, we can’t rule out that at some point, it may be found out that it is contaminated — also there is a lot of cross-contamination within the companies– i can’t give you an absolute never to the recalls. we are trying to keep this problem from recalling. companies are starting to test their products.
Q: what is that point where things will be safe for safe food? and consumers can feel confident? for fish feed, how about food that we give to out pet fish?
A: all of the evidence is that it is going to commercial application- in 50 pound bags for bulk feed- not for tropical or pet fish
USA Today: 1) the company that was making this product- were they using melamine for a protein source or for a plastic glue to hold pellets together?
A: it seems that they weren’t using it as a protein source. it was used to improve the binding properties. melamine is not an approved additive
Q: you have a recall on the food going out? what about the animals that were being fed?
A: at this point, no. the levels in the x-tra bond do not reach a level of concern. the levels in the aquabond and aquatech were higher and so they didn’t reach a level of concern for human health. in the aquabond and aquatech, there was a concern for the fish
WA Post: i don’t see a press release?
A: it will be up in a minute
Q: it sounds like Tembec that was adding these melamine ingredients- so Tembec never approached you about this or never stopped using melamine- until Uniscope had tested did they stop. do you think it is irresponsible on the part of Tembec to stop adding melamine to the product
A: that is part of the active investigation- it came to our attention on May 18. we can’t comment on that because we don’t have any info on that.
Q: on what basis did you say that they weren’t trying to increase the protein but to use it as a binding agent
A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten.
Q: are these products sold with a certain amount of protein level?
A: no, I don’t think this is the case
Sac Bee: would be the particular ingredient be used in other products and what other testing will be done with feed?
A: we are focusing on the invest of the binding agent in the fish feed. we are informing fish feed and live stock feed manuf and our focus is on the binding agents.
LA Times: were either of these companies using melamine for a long time? what are their methods of manuf? when did they start using it? are there other livestock that could have been fed this binding agent?
A: part of the invest is trying to figure out how long- it most likely has been going on for awhile- we don’t have specific info to share-
Q: how far might this have gone? you have mentioned sheep and goats?
A: it’s cattle, sheep and goats- they are primarily for the xtrabond. the fish and shrimp are targets for aquatech 2 and aquabond. we don’t know the extent of far this has gone. the aquabond and aquatech 2 are exported and we are notifying those countries.
Q: domestically, how major is this?
A: most of the aquatech2 and aquabond are for exports. with the xtrabond, we don’t have a good sense of that since the recall just started today. all of this info is in process of being obtained. the feed with the xtrabond we don’t except to see a recall.
CNN: have you checked to see who else Tembec is selling to?
A: tembec is only selling to uniscope.
CNN: melamine is unapproved. are there any approved uses of melamine?
A: it is approved for use in plasticware, dinnerware as a polymer.
Q: but not for feed or for food.
A: yes, not approved for feed or human food.
Q: what action is being taken against tembec?
A: tembec and uniscope are being cooperative. our investigation remains open. tembec have stopped using melamine and uniscope has stopped selling the product. no unapproved use or unapproved distribution going on now.
NPR: tembec was doing this themself? they weren’t getting melamine from other countries?
A: correct
Q: only used for fish feed and not for pet fish?
A: it is intended for fish feed.
Pittsburgh Tribune: what is the level in other two products? why did it take 12 days for the FDA to announce this?
A: the levels were for melamine and mel related compounds. they were heavily melamine. the levels of melamine were by far the highest, cyan. acid were low comp to melamine. the xtra bond was less for 50 parts for million in finished feed. the aquabond and aquatech were higher and in the region of 230-460 parts for million depending on the dilution when product is actually put together?
Q: why did it take 12 days? what other countries?
A: we are notifying countries- until they are all notified, we don’t want to comment. we had invest in there on that monday. from may 25-26, we were trying to contact companies and get the recall going. with the holiday weekend, it took longer.
Balt Sun: how do melamine levels found in aquabond and aquatech 2 compare to the levels of wheat flour in China?
A: way higher. the levels were 20% in the pet food.
Q: is the FDA doing anything now so that you will find melamine in products if companies are not doing testing themselves?
A: yes, we are focusing on feeds and anything with imported products
Q: how many companies are you actually testing the product for? how many companies are making this? what are the chances that you can detect this without them coming forward?
A: we can’t get to every company- this part of the strategy is to raise awareness in manuf to look and to see what you’re getting- uniscope did that. it’s a multi-prong approach
Q: but the company selling to uniscope didn’t come forward? what could you do to the company?
A: if we don’t know about them, we can’t do too much about it. the provisions and the statues are clear. companies who commit prohibited act will be prosecuted.
Q: ABC NEWS: it sounds as if Uniscope didn’t know what they were getting?
A: Tembec was the orig manuf. they manuf aquabond and aquatech2. that same ingredient was shipped to uniscope and used it to make xtrabond. the ingredient is a binding agent to hold pellets together better.
Q: you have no idea how much Tembec has made? what was the percentage of melamine in the binding agent?
A: the levels in the binding agent varied- up to 31,000 parts for million- that was in the original agent and not the final feed.
Q: you have not shut down Tembec?
A: tembec is not producing products with melamine. they are producing products with no melamine in it.
Q: would it have been labeled as anything else as melamine? would they not have done that they were mixing with melamine?
A: i can’t speak to what Tembec knew or didn’t know. it’s speculation.
Q: what are you expecting from private companies in terms of surveillance? are there any regulatory issues? is it strictly voluntary? what are the costs for testing?
A: it’s vitally important to not make any assumptions about what’s in your product- know your suppliers and know what they are sending you.
Q: what are the companies expected to do in light of this new situation? how does a company to protect itself with a known supplier?
A: if I were a CEO, i would ask who my suppliers were and if you didn’t get a level of comfort, then test it yourself. how assured am I that I am receiving what I am expecting.
FDA conference concludes.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:56 am
dear Anon,
Unless you are growing your own food for your animals you don’t know what feed and water was used in raising their or your food. People living in the city can’t keep a bunch of chickens and pigs out back, so let’s be realistic. Now we all know that most of the pet food is crap, and I do think there must be a few trustworthy producers out there. I’m not feeding commercial any more and my pets are only alive because I happened to pick those critical few months to feed raw. I do think the people food is far less contaminated than the pet food was, so I’m compromising by using storebought people food.For years everyone was told, including by our vets, not to feed people food. Not everyone is ready for that yet. And for the sake of owners who are mourning their dead animal companions, your tone sounds extremely judgemental and uncaring. People just have to believe that a well chosen people food diet can work for their pets, and it isn’t too much more expensive. It’s a huge change in thinking, but people won’t get their by being harassed by people like you.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:03 am
To Anonymous/J.T.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:25 am
The FDA/ USDA tells you it’s safe, puts their little stamp/seal of approval on it, so you buy it thinking it’s safe. You buy it. YOU BUY IT….
Well I don’t buy it. It’s not just the food companies that I don’t trust. It’s the FDA, CODEX, USDA, or any other the alphabet agencies. Need I remind you off all the many stamps, or government inspected, foods, meats, drugs out on the market that have been recalled in the past. Just google recalls.
keywords, organic baby food recalls, organic food recalls,vegetable recalls,drug recall, and the like. They said these products were safe, with the little seal of approval. Deal with it.
http://www.fda.gov/default.htm
I will not reply any further to you. Do some research like many of us here have done, and are still hard at work doing. “What the heck are they doing about it? Nothing!!!! Because they’re too busy posting their complaints through out the day.”.
You are so wrong! We are doing something! If it wasn’t for us , you wouldn’t have known about the recall. Thanks to Itchmo, and many, many people here at the forum, and petconnection, and all the others out there.
I’m getting tired, and off to bed now. Keep me posted about the bees too. I haven’t heard anything else about those tests.
good night all.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:05 am
[REDACTED BY ADMIN]
I’ve been shopping at Whole Foods for the past 15 years, and my family and pets are very healthy for it. But believe what you want!
Yes, they import . . . but I ask questions . . . and I buy what’s local. Period. They have signs put out as to where certain products come from.
I also shop the rest of the things I need from my local farmers’ market. Not rocket science people. Just common sense. Good night. I’m done trying to reason with some of these “educated” people here.
ITCHMO ADMIN: You are dangerously close to being banned. Calling people ignorant fools helps no one — regardless of how intelligent or good your argument is. Please refrain from insulting people to make your point.
UPDATE: You have been banned. Posting someone else’s email address without their consent is absolutely inappropriate.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:07 am
MEAT - beef from Whole Foods. One of the customers of my company processes the meat for Whole Foods. I asked if the meat was the real thing - not gmo’d, not full of preservatives, etc. He stated that all they do is cut off the head, hooves and tail then send the rest intact to Whole Foods that does its own processing and Whole Foods will not even put any type of saran or plastic wrap on the meat as they want it to be as fresh as possible. They realize it won’t have a long shelf life but that is how they do their beef in case anyone needed this information. He stated the meat is the REAL DEAL, no growth hormones, anti-biotics, all grass fed.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:30 am
*lol*
May 31st, 2007 at 1:35 am
whole food is not 100% “organic”.
http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/
They imports many items too, from countries growing genetic engineered foods. I shop at a small family owned health food store. They raise lamb & venison, and grow a small garden. It’s a small co op, however Organic does not mean your 100% safe. Don’t get lulled into thinking your buying premium foods. So unless you grow it yourself, or trust a small family owned co op grocery, I wouldn’t put my faith in some big company. World foods is just another big business company in my opionion, and not 100% safe from food contaminates.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:54 am
I have 2 big dogs, one little dog & 6 cats. I’m home feeding the dogs & feeding the cats canned Felidae for now, though I would like to cook for them also. I live alone & work very long hours at a relatively low paying job. My house payment isn’t that high & I’m not extrememly loaded with debt. Still, home cooking for the dogs & feeding 3 cans of food a day to the cats is REALLY EXPENSIVE!!!!
I cook them organic veggies but no way can I afford organic beef–it’s at least 5 dollars a pound. I was shopping safeway for their great deals on beef but everyone said it was horrible meat, so now I’m paying more at a local chain–I have no idea what the quality of meat is there but it’s twice as expensive. I’m spending hundreds a month on the dog food & over a hundred on cat food.
I was buying really expensive dry food for the dogs before the recall & it was a third of what I’m paying now. I could spend less feeding raw commercial for the dogs but I don’t trust it. The added work of cooking with my grueling work schedule & now dealing with a crf cat is incredibly hard.
My work hours are reduced starting next week & my job runs out at end of July. I’m unemployed for 2 months every summer (I teach at several community colleges). I job hunt every summer but there are no 2 month long jobs out there. I’m really worried how I will feed my pets this high-cost diet during that time.
Thing is, my story is not so bad & I feel very lucky to be able to do this much. There are many others on these forums that are in much worse financial shape & / or unable to prepare pet food at home because of physical or other limitations. Heck, I’m limited by a tiny fridge in a tiny house & no room for a freezer to stock up on meat. Bragging about 300 dollar water filters & shopping at the walmart of organic foods for organic meat & putting down everyone that can’t do the same is just arrogant & pompous. No, I take that back. It’s just plain sad, narrow-minded & sad.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:59 am
“As a result, we have been working with the manufacturers of our Whole Foods brand and 365 brand private label products and their suppliers to verify the GMO status of the major ingredients that could potentially be genetically modified. We are pleased to report that most of our products already do not use GMO varieties of these ingredients. Where GMO ingredients are present, we will replace them with non-GMO alternatives as soon as they are available.
Our goal of no-GMO ingredients in our Whole Foods market brand and 365 products is focused on accessing ingredients derived from non-genetically modified seeds. Unfortunately, absolute “GMO-free” guarantees cannot be made on any manufacturer’s product. Not only is it impossible to test every container of product, but currently there is no system in the United States to guard against drift from farmers using GMO seed that could potentially contaminate non-GMO crops.
Whole Foods own statement
http://www.mindfully.org/GE/Wh.....tement.htm
The FDA says GM foods are safe, and sellers don’t need to label anything sold to World Foods.
No food is 100% safe. Safer….maybe? But just because it costs more, Premium, do you really think it’s 100% safe?
Back to the topic, thanks Itchmo for the updates
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/.....01643.html
Anyone know all five contaminates yet?
May 31st, 2007 at 2:04 am
BTW–I do almost all of my shopping at a local natural food co-op. I’m a vegetarian so can afford the fresh regional veggies for me & the pets, but no way can I pay their beef prices in those tiny elite packages. My dogs eat 4 lbs of meat/day plus liver, hearts & bones throughout the week.
They do have good buys periodically on freerange chicken, which I get for the cats, but it’s raised by a large scale local company that uses the typical crowded polluting inhumane practices to raise their main brand chicken. The totally organic chicken is about 6 dollars a pound. But even if I have to shop the regular stores for beef for the dog food, I’m sure it’s still better than what they render down for the kibble. It makes me sick to think I may have to go back to that crap this summer!
May 31st, 2007 at 2:17 am
I agree petslave. It sounds like J.T., Anon was blaming us to for our pets illness or deaths because we dont buy from the “whole foods” company, trying to lay some guilt trip on us! Just do the best you can, money is tight for many people these days.
I sure hope his/her words don’t come back to haunt him/her later from boasting about that company.
g2g
ttyl
May 31st, 2007 at 2:18 am
Great post on the whole foods link, Beth. Up until the past month, I thought I was doing great buying all my fresh organic food as local as possible & stocking up on canned & boxed organic name brand items on sale. Now it turns out almost ALL prepared organic foods have at least some imported ingredients. Look for the Product of US note on label–there isn’t one. Look a the certifying agency–QAI is very commonly listed & specializes in organic imports. Big question–do you trust China to raise your organic food?
I’m sure many of these organic food companies are in this as much for money as the big bad guys. They could have a bit more of a concience or they could just be riding the wave for the bucks. A lot of them started out small then outgrew their home style production & faced the real corporate world. Most have been bought out by the big guys, but this has been discussed extensively on this site already. Time to sleep, doubt the dreams will be any better than reality.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:43 am
If i had dogs i would totally feed raw and only human food. with cats it’s not so easy.
One of my cats won’t even eat people food, not even meat.
I had enough trouble trying to coax him to eat the better foods.
For those who think we dont care or just complain , sigh… i wish they were here to see me combing the phone books for pet stores, spending hours and hours researching foods, driving all over the state finding these boutique foods and driving back to return them when my cat wouldn’t eat them..all while gas is the highest it’s ever been in my lifetime,,all while on disability, all with my primary hand in a splint and needing constant help just to shop for that food,
i tried fresh raw with wild caught salmon and sole and my one cat wasn’t having it.
Instead of starving him and force feeding him i’ve settled on the few foods i feel mostly good about that he will eat and just take it from there.
…people in glass houses
…just sayin
* also thank you ITCHMO ADMIN for being awake at this crazy hour and your rapid response to the violation of my privacy*
May 31st, 2007 at 2:54 am
I was wondering if anyone knows of a Grain-free Dry Cat food?
Of the many we talked about I can’t remember see this type. I’ve been in enough stores and shops and on the phone plenty but do not remember any of them mentioning one either.
I do know some have mentioned pet allergies with grains, and using canned foods I think. But I want to try another Dry.
Nothing wrong with what I have but want to eliminate Grains if I can, if it is even possible.
{Danged cat just has to have that Dry to nibble on! :-D }
Scheeesch what we won’t do for them :-P
Thanks in advance.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:56 am
innove EVO is grain free i believe. I don’t have the original bag anymore.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:56 am
*Innova EVO *
May 31st, 2007 at 2:58 am
Also wellness came out with a totally grain free dry for cats called CORE. most stores who carry wellness have samples. that’s how i got a few small bags to try. Wellness makes their own dry with the wet coming from a menu plant
May 31st, 2007 at 3:17 am
[…] See all latest news, recalls, entertainment, and local info. « FDA Press Conference […]
May 31st, 2007 at 3:35 am
Trudy Jackson,May 30th, 2007 at 8:16 pm, Says: “Is there anything wrong with corningware plates?”
They should be perfectly safe. Glass is made by melting sand (silicon dioxide) at very high temperatures, temperatures far above that at which plastics burns.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:08 am
DMS, 4:15 pm, says: “…A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten.
———————————————————————————–
Balt Sun: how do melamine levels found in aquabond and aquatech 2 compare to the levels of wheat flour in China?
A: way higher. the levels were 20%
Is it just me, or do these two statements contradict each other?”
Clearly, the FDA is not nearly as stupid as people want to make out. They are dealing with a very complicated situation, what with technical data that the public does not understand (just read the entire dfa stmt on the safety of eating the tainted pork and chicken, as an example). Given all of this, by their very nature, fda officials are not the best communicators.
They were probably talking about 2 different things. According to usatoday*, the 20% level was the highest seen in the pet foods, not the Aquabond product (of fish food).
* http://www.usatoday.com/money/.....call_N.htm
May 31st, 2007 at 4:31 am
mittens, May 30th, 2007 at 7:43 pm - Cats and dogs did not die just from eating melamine, since it is inert (does not break down in their systems). They died because there was at least one other non-food compound in the food, namely, cyanuric acid. It was the combination of the 2 that killed them. You really should read the melamine entry in wikipedia, from the Regulation section all of the way to the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#Regulation
The real culprits here are not the fda, but the unscrupulous Chinese that illegally adulterated the gluten to cheat their foreign (American) customers with a product that was not worth what they were paying for AND possibly harmful. Harmful, due to another illegal food additive, namely, cyanuric acid, which they also put into the wheat gluten!
May 31st, 2007 at 4:32 am
- - I’m sorry, the above anonymous was mine. - -
May 31st, 2007 at 6:43 am
I am anxiously awaiting the results of the Iams Food Test.
Sandi
May 31st, 2007 at 8:22 am
Here are some suppliers for BINDERS found in the Pet Food Industry 2006 Magazine. These are listed under the Category, Pellet Binder and Lubricant.
Badger Trading Company
http://www.badgertrading.com
Bill Barr & Co
http://www.billbarr.com
Bonimex
http://www.bonimex.com/WebSite.....x.nsf?Open
Dresen Quimica SA de CV
Address: ARTEMIO DEL VALLE ARIZPE Nº 16 - 401
MEXICO CITY, Distrito Federal, 03100
Col: Beneto Juarez
(Distributes and Manufactures CHEMICALS & ALLIED PRODUCTS, Chemical Preparations)
International Ingredient Corp
http://www.iicag.com/index.php
Mannasol Products Ltd
http://www.mannasolproducts.com
Oil-Dri Corp of America
http://www.oildri.com/agri/index.html
Premcem Gums Pvt. Ltd.
http://www.premcemgums.com
Sonac BV
http://www.sonac.biz/intro1.php
Sopropeche
http://www.directorypub.com/SR.....id=6000050
Trouw Nutrition USA LLC
http://www.trouw-nutritionusa......ge_key=442
Doing a very quick search, I found out polysaccharide gums, blood plasma, oligosacchrides and starch carbohydrate binders, which may include, but not be limited to, potato powder, cereal products or WHEAT GLUTEN, are also binders in feeds and pet foods.
There are category listings for gums, guar, etc. and oligosacchrides that I will get up here today.
_ _ _ _
“The dead cannot cry out for justice; it is a duty of the living to do so for them.”
Lois McMaster Bujold, Diplomatic Immunity, 2002 US science fiction author
May 31st, 2007 at 9:39 am
Kelli- Wellness outsources now. They don’t make their own dry. I’m not sure where the core is made but when I called last Fri about the Wellness dog & cat dry that I had they told me it was made at ANI. They did say they run only their foods for 18 hrs & clean the equip before & after.[Don’t know if I believe that] Also they keep samples of every batch & are backtesting .So everything already on the store shelves should be safe.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:04 am
The FDA is a gutless bureaucracy populated by gutless bureaucrats.
I talked to many of them at the state and federal levels weeks before the contaminated pet food was fed to hogs and chickens and THEY DIDN’T HAVE A CLUE.
However, they were quite competent at telling me what they didn’t know and what they couldn’t do.
IMHO, they’re a bunch of uninterested morons.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:08 am
PetSlave your statement of :
Bragging about 300 dollar water filters & shopping at the walmart of organic foods for organic meat & putting down everyone that can’t do the same is just arrogant & pompous. No, I take that back. It’s just plain sad, narrow-minded & sad.
Pretty much said it all…..I agree with you 100%…….as well as spending tons of money for green products and making all your own products as the one poster on the other forum claims. You did a really good job at calling it like it is…….thank you….it’s about time someone did.
May 31st, 2007 at 10:38 am
” job hunt every summer but there are no 2 month long jobs out there. I’m really worried how I will feed my pets this high-cost diet during that time. job hunt every summer but there are no 2 month long jobs out there. I’m really worried how I will feed my pets this high-cost diet during that time.”
can you pick up some tutoring work? maybe help students with placemant tests, students that need to do summer make up work or need a leg up on the fall semester?
May 31st, 2007 at 11:18 am
Steve Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
November 20, 2006
A person describing him or herself as an “anonymous EPA employee†writes that an “atmosphere of fear, intimidation, and suppression… has permeated EPA for the past six years.â€
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I don’t know who this anonymous employee is, but someone who knows what is going on has to expose them. He or she could seek legal counsel first. I would. How can we fix the system if we don’t know what is going on? The people need to know about the closed door deals going on with the FDA, USDA, EPA, Presidents Admin. We need to know.
The press no longer investigates. All of the above lie and don’t ask, don’t tell. I’m sure people are intimidated. But public disclosure is the only possible way to break the cycle of intimindation. Why should anyone buckle to the cowards and meglamaniacs who use intimidation because they do not want the public to know what they are doing. You can be manipulated or do what is right and expose the truth.
May 31st, 2007 at 11:40 am
Anonymous Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 4:31 am
mittens, May 30th, 2007 at 7:43 pm - Cats and dogs did not die just from eating melamine, since it is inert (does not break down in their systems). They died because there was at least one other non-food compound in the food, namely, cyanuric acid. It was the combination of the 2 that killed them. You really should read the melamine entry in wikipedia, from the Regulation section all of the way to the end.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melamine#Regulation
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But according to Wikipedia, which is not the most reliable source for info, my middle schooler could not even cite it in a bibliography, cyanuric acid is a byproduct of melamine. So where you have melamine, you could potentially have both melamine and cyanuric acid. Maybe that’s why melamine is not safe for human consumption.
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While some researchers have theorized that the three latter chemicals might have been formed as the animals metabolized the melamine, or as by-products of bacterial metabolism (cyanuric acid is a known intermediate byproduct of bacterial metabolism of melamine),
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanuric_acid
May 31st, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Thanks for the Dry Grainless Cat food help.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
rockman13 Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 4:08 am
DMS, 4:15 pm, says: “…A: discussion with firms and the levels of mel in the product were not as high as we saw in wheat gluten
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Rockman, you are right. That was an error in the live blog from the press conference. I did see the right info in the official usda transcript.
But I still do not give the USDA/FDA any credit for being forthcoming–it’s not a lack of communication skills, they are being deliberately evasive. They at least have some idea-after 12 days, if not longer-of how much and to whom these manufacturers supply. They know biuret, which i can repost the info for you , including countries that use it-us, contains cyanuric acid and I will try to find the info someone else posted on melamine being used in feed. If we can find it, you know they can. I believe, subjectively, that they have been complicit parties to this whole scheme and now the walls are crumbling all around them. Sooner or later, we will know the truth. I wonder how much damage has been done. Public trust is eroding, our food is not safe, gmo’s are running rampant–so much so that our exports are affected. Only we Americans will eat this garbage. Mostly because they have kept us in the dark purposely. They approve food additives before they have even fully investigated them. WE all know this is unsound. It’s time they take the heat.
ITCHMO ADMIN: Thanks. In the live blog, we have clarified that the 20% melamine level was in the pet food and not in the Aquabond/Aqua-tec II products.
May 31st, 2007 at 12:24 pm
I can’t speak to Canidae, but I use Felidae (same company but for cats), since the recall in March.
My cat was a bit reluctant at first, now eats it well. No diarrhea (switched her almost cold turkey), coat got smoother, her excessive weight gain is getting under control, her ears don’t itch any more, and her daily habit of throwing up (vet had no idea why, blah blah) has ended. She will do the occasional hairball still, but what a difference.
May 31st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
I noticed on the FDA report that it did mention cattle too. First time I have heard of that. But figured they were feeding them too. Bet the reason they do not speak about the cattle taking melamine too is because of our imports! The do not want that to get out. What is this urea fromaldehyde doing in the food too and what would it do to us?
I am sure that horses, turkeys and all of the animals have been eating this melamine and urea formaldehyde in their food as well. But they do not care about horses or the dogs or cats. They have not said one time whether any of our pets would be harmed any more by eating the 80,000 chickens in our food supply.
May 31st, 2007 at 2:49 pm
High Note, Isn’t it millions of chickens?
May 31st, 2007 at 3:05 pm
furmom Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
I knew the melacrap had to be going into cattle feed. It didn’t make sense that it was fed to hogs ,chickens and fish , but wasn’t going into any other feeds. All the stuff that was identified earlier was not just from pet food, that was to throw everybody off to the idea that it has been normal procedure to use this stuff since who knows when. …
… This was not just an open secret in China, American feed producers have known all this stuff all along. That’s why the fda doesn’t want specific products identified as having melamine compounds in them. People would be screaming, how did you let this go one for so long?
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Those of us who can afford to should get some of our HUMAN FOOD tested to see how many more products can be exposed for using the chemicals! Brand name breads, pastas, energy bars, pizza doughs, sports protein drinks, soups, sauces, and condiments… I’m sure we are all examples of the Accumulation Factor!
As far as the “cross contamination” issue from equipment… As others have stated, I don’t believe the contamination would be so strong if the machines were not cleaned at all or not fully cleaned between batches. It has been suggested that possibly the manufacturing companies keep a few spare bags of “pseudo-protein enhanced gluten” around to boost the protein content if testing of the end products revealed a protein shortage for a particular brand’s recipe. As long as the food analysis report shows that the protein count matches what the recipe calls for, who would know if real meat/fish protein is used or if pseudo-protein concentrate is used? And would some brand names actually care as long as the measured protein level met or surpassed the recipe’s requirements? Everybody would save a few bucks at the expense of the pets. The protein concentrates are much cheaper than real meat/fish. Let’s see… What is the phrasing: Guaranteed Analysis stated in minimums: ??% Crude Protein, minimum.
We are every bit as guilty as the Chinese. You can’t tell me that companies operating in the U.S. do NOT know that melamine is not approved for use in animal feeds and human foods. It’s the need for greed! I recommend a long jail sentence and a whopping financial penalty! Who knows what other toxic garbage we’re eating and for how long?
This revelation should cause a huge rush for everyone to
GET OFF
THE COMMERCIAL FOOD GRID
as much as possible.
Just rambling here… but I’d like to know what the TV show/segment about Walmart losing customers is about… it’s supposed to air tomorrow morning?? Anyone here know more details? Could the loss of customers be due to the boycotting of Chinese products??
May 31st, 2007 at 3:47 pm
I was able to catch the Walmart segment this morning. Their profit problem is due to their higher priced, better quality items that people weren’t buying. Seems folks prefer the “less expensive” stuff. Unless I didn’t get what they were saying, that’s what I got out of their little segment. It didn’t mention where Walmart got their less expensive products or what kind of quality they were.
I was hoping they would have reported people were boycotting because of their crappy products or because of the pet food thing…no.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:07 pm
And speaking of stuff on the news. What is really scarey is the guy that has the deadly TB that managed to fly around. Our screeners and folks at the border control in Canada didn’t detect what a health threat he was. GMA also reported that the computers had this info on him which pops right up and he never should have made it out of the country much less back in.
For those unfamiliar with this nightmare, the story goes like this: Unnamed guy has a deadly drug resistant form of TB. Something like 50 or so people in some country had it and all but one died. The guy was diagnosed with the TB and was advised not to leave the country or fly. Apparently it wasn’t a demand so he flew to Italy with his bride, then to Canada and drove back into the US where he turned himself in to some hospital where he is now quarantined.
He shuold have been quarantined immediately since this is such a deadly form, not necessarily ultra contagious though. He takes the selfish irresponsible approach and flies out of the country….possibly infecting all those people not only on the plane but at the airport. Does it again to Canada and drives back into the country…still undetected. Homeland security at its best. And yes, again, our tax dollars at work. See how easy it is for someone to start a pandemic here? Yet they’ll hassle an 80 year old woman in a wheel chair over shampoo in an over night bag.
With all the talk you hear about homeland security, and this and that with our government, am I wrong to expect a little more? Now, our tax dollars are being spent on trying to round up all those people that were on those planes or that could have been in contact with him on his little trek.
May 31st, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Follow up on TB guy
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3231235
May 31st, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Debbie,
I sometimes wonder if they allow things like this to happen, so when people cry out for help, they can pass tougher laws in homeland security. I mean yes they KNEW he has this deadly drug resistant form of TB, They should have detained him.
But I don’t want to be detained for sneezing in allergy season either! Sometimes when they pass these new laws, they just go overboard, tasering or hassling little old lady’s at the airport.
May 31st, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Anonymous,
I agree about testing people food. At the press conferences there were a lot of non-answers when reporters asked questions as to whether the gluten in our food was being checked.
And their answer that the SUPPLIERS are having to check the food the FDA is blocking and ASSURE is with the proper paperwork that it has been tested? Our FDA needs to be doing the testing. The Chinese have proven over and over that they don’t mind altering paperwork, or putting poison in our food, and we should trust them to assure us?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:46 pm
The Maricopa County Health Department has a man detained over his TB. He has some drug resistant form, he refused to take the proper steps rquired for his voluntary quarantine…..so he has been detained for many months now. There has been some out cry over Sheriff Joe doing this…..this is one time I agree with what he is doing. A few weeks ago, the man was begging for a second chance and to be released. I feel real bad for the guy and his family, but he should have followed directions. The most recent issue is the cost of his lockup….I think it would be much more costly if he wasn’t locked up.
TB patient costing taxpayers
Quarantined man’s bills average $50,000 a month
Yvonne Wingett
The Arizona Republic
May. 31, 2007 12:00 AM
Maricopa County residents are paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills racked up by a tuberculosis patient who is under lockdown by health authorities at the county hospital.
Robert Daniels has spent nearly 10 months in a sealed room on the fourth-floor at Maricopa Medical Center’s jail ward. The 27-year-old suffers from a dangerous TB strain that is drug-resistant and is under court-ordered confinement because he broke the rules of voluntary quarantine and exposed others to a potentially deadly illness. He is considered a patient of the county’s public health department.
Daniels’ hospital bills average about $50,000 monthly and include overnight stays in the sealed room, medicine and visits to doctors, said Mary Lee DeCoster, vice president of revenue cycle at Maricopa Integrated Health System. It runs the county hospital. advertisement
From July 28, 2006, through March 31, 2007, the bills added up to about $510,000. Maricopa Medical Center gives a discounted rate to the county, which had to pay $389,293.69. Billing statements from April and May are on their way to county health officials.
“This is definitely an unusual situation,” said Shawn Nau, director of the county’s General Government Department. “Every once in a while, there’s one of these cases that ends up costing a lot of money.”
Maricopa County keeps a contingency fund to pay for these types of court-ordered quarantine cases, Nau said. Typically, the county pays out $100,000 or less a year to take care of such people, he said, on average about three or four people yearly.
Tuberculosis is spread by airborne contact and was among the leading causes of death in the first part of the 20th century. Daniels contracted the virus while living in Russia, according to Maricopa County Superior Court filings.
May 31st, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Debbie,
I just heard on the news that his father in law worked for the CDC lab, and worked with this strain of TB! The rest of the interview with the infected man will be aired on Good Morning America tomorrow. I wonder why he left the country to get married, when he knew he was infected with this. Maybe the woman dad didn’t like her choice for a hubby……
I’ll watch the interview in the morning. Thanks for the info.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Has anyone seen on T.V news about Coke and Pepsi? A preservative that has been found to break down DNA and may cause Liver damage and may cause Parkinson’s. They said it was Sodium Benzoate (sp). It suppose to prevent mold in sodas.
So what else is on the list of not to eat and now drink? sigh…..
May 31st, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Flamin,
Thanks for the update. I did see on the news tonight some more about it, mostly what you just wrote. Does seem odd that his father in law works for the cdc and is involved with TB. Suspicious? Maybe….and I didn’t catch on the news why he didn’t just stay put, only that he wasn’t feeling any symptoms as yet. From what I’ve gathered on the news he know he had a deadly strain and was only advised not to travel.
True, everyone that merely sneezes shouldn’t be detained, but geez, a deadly form of TB? Deb posted some info about how much it costs, out of our pockets I guess in this case too(???). That’s a hunk of change, but worth it in my book to keep him away from the public.
I won’t have a chance to see GMA tomorrow, so if you do see it, please post what they say.
This may not be a pet food or a people food issue, but it does once again prove our government in incapable of protecting us.
May 31st, 2007 at 9:15 pm
thanks flamin for that bit of wierd news on the TB guy. I had accused myself of going “Tom Clancy” over at PC because I was wondering if there was any bothersome background story to come of this event. This no longer sounds like it did initially to me, when I had calmed down as the guy said “oh gosh, I just had NO idea this was SOOOOO bad, ie I am just a dumb old good boy”. Well, okay, with a nasty streak because he kept going when they tried to pin him down and ultimately had to chase him down. Like, he didn’t discuss the TB and its type with good old CDC worker Dad? Got infected via some connection to his Dad? Oddly enough, I remember the CDC saying that despite the guy’s protestations, they HAD clearly told him what he had, and why it was so deadly serious.
But honestly, it is just another instance of NOBODY watching at the helm. We know about this guy, we don’t do a thing. We know about crappy imports, but we don’t do a thing.
If a bad guy did this, and at the same time others did a food supply taint number on us, our import/export policies have left us with NO safe food reserves to fall back upon, and few small local people who could help provide us with the food we would need for us and pets in a deliberate homeland security style disaster/attack because those independent farmers and ranchers are being run out of business by our foreign importation policies (much easier to implement by using big agri-businesses who see it the USDA/govt’s way, due to all the perks they get and the tax breaks for their “cooperation.”).
Grim. At this point, I just hope all this, the TB thing and the food thing is ONLY due to human ignorance, deliberate profit greed, and not for more nefarious reasons. I will watch for any reviews here of that morning show tomorrow (don’t get local tv here).
May 31st, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Deb read this breaking news.
Japanese students held in Canada over measles
Updated Thu. May. 31 2007 9:09 PM ET
Canadian Press
Federal officials have invoked the Quarantine Act to block Japanese students from flying home after departure screening revealed one of the students is ill with symptoms that could be measles.
The group is being held at the quarantine station at Vancouver International Airport while authorities make arrangements to put them up while they are being quarantined. They could detain them for up to 16 days
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti.....hub=Canada
My luck I would sneeze, and be detained til they take their time testing me. I would miss my children, and puppy:(
Ruth, I read a few years ago, coke and pepsi could contain nanos! I wonder if it is Sodium Benzoate, or nanos? Strange times we live in!
May 31st, 2007 at 9:39 pm
TC “Grim. At this point, I just hope all this, the TB thing and the food thing is ONLY due to human ignorance, deliberate profit greed, and not for more nefarious reasons. I will watch for any reviews here of that morning show tomorrow (don’t get local tv here).”
I don’t know TC, I just don’t think it was due to human ignorance. It’s to big, and been happening for to long! Was it a deliberate act, for profit & greed? Yes, and what about the other thing, for nefarious reasons?
Well the earth is really limited on space, water, food, resources…. Maybe tptb wish to…dare I say it, cull the population?
Nah. Probably just greed………
May 31st, 2007 at 9:53 pm
I LOVE THIS!! And I think it is highly pertinent to our current situation.
I for one, IMHO, think we are living in a Kakistrocracy!
Definition: Kakistocracy
You may want to search Wiktionary for “Kakistocracy”.
Kakistocracy, rule by the least-able or least-principled of citizens, is a form of government in which the people least qualified to control the government are the people who control the government.
The origin of this word is Greek, derived from the superlative of the Greek adjective kakos (bad), the superlative form being kakistos (worst).
A modern day example (although fictitious), could include the structure of an office from Dilbert, where the least qualified employees within the office receive the bulk of the promotions and hold the highest and most powerful positions. However, few examples exist since the term is used far more for criticizing a current administration, similar to Trotskyists designation of state socialism as state capitalism
May 31st, 2007 at 9:53 pm
The local news had the PHX TB infected dude on today. I do feel bad for the guy….the filmed in from outside the sealed room he lives in. He has a wife and young kids, he knows he is going to die and being stuck in the room….well…..it must really suck to be him. It seems every couple of weeks, his story pops up. I remember reading an article that there was talk about sending back to Russia, I don’t know what became of that….it would be a pretty good idea…..the taxpayers of Maricopa have other issues with the border so close….education is poor here….I’ll stop right there with that one.
As far as costs……this is the first article I noticed about cost of his private suite….BUT…..this is the price “WE” have to pay. He should have listened and followed directions. This guy, like the CDC’s son in law….both claim they did not know how bad TB was!!!!!!!!!!! I don’t buy that statement from either one of them. Apparently Russia is loaded with TB…maybe they don’t think iit all that bad over there….there’s social issues in Russia….ok….maybe he didn’t understand…..MAYBE. The CDC’s son in law….he is an educated man…..I am too sure his father in law filled in him. Both of these men are very selfish people…there is no excuse for them. They should be in lockdown…..away from the rest of us.
Now dig this one……the reason why the PHX dude was on TV….that bleeding heart civil liberty group wants to release him. I have no clue how this group works….maybe these lawyers work for free (it snows in hell too?) but someone is paying for this too. All this guy had to do was wear a mask and take his meds……that’s it. Now he is in lockdown….and the taxpayers are paying his way!!!!!!!!!
Good thing is, on the board postings many people are questioning OUR rights as healthy people. He has infringed upon the rights of every one he has been near. I pity those people who were trapped on a plane with the other selfish man. Maybe I am cold and cruel…..I do understand they did not plan on getting this strain of TB and the should be ‘punished’ for being sick……BUT…..the welfare of an entire community has to be considered first……before the welfare of one.
I wonder if his ACLU lawyer feels so committed to his release….that she would bring him home with her or even want him as a neighbor. I doubt it.
ACLU files lawsuit against county for treatment of TB patient
Dennis Wagner
The Arizona Republic
May. 30, 2007 09:11 PM
A federal lawsuit filed Wednesday by the American Civil Liberties Union alleges that Maricopa County officials have violated the rights of a quarantined tuberculosis patient for months by treating him as a criminal.
The U.S. District Court complaint on behalf of Robert Daniels alleges health officials and the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office have violated numerous constitutional rights and the Americans with Disabilities Act.
The suit asks that Daniels be housed in appropriate accommodations, rather than the severe and “inhumane” jail conditions.
“It’s good news for me,” Daniels said Wednesday evening. “I finally have a chance to get out of this black hole.”
Robert England, the county’s tuberculosis control officer, declined comment. Other county health officials were not immediately available.
Daniels, 27, has been isolated in a jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center for 10 months under court order, although he was not convicted or charged with any crime.
Linda Cosme, an attorney for Daniels, said her client has been victimized by constitutional violations. “Robert is helpless,” she added. “And he’s at the mercy of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. He needs as much support as possible, and the ACLU is supplying that support.”
Arpaio said Daniels is confined under court order, and must abide by security measures. “I run a safe jail, and he’s going to be treated like anyone else,” he said.
Daniels, who holds dual United States and Russian citizenship, moved to Arizona in January 2006 after contracting extreme multi-drug-resistant (XDR) TB, in Moscow, where he has a wife and 5-year-old son.
Daniels, who spent his teen years in Scottsdale, said he returned to the United States in search of work and a college education. Months later, he became severely ill and was placed in a county sanitarium for indigent TB patients.
Dr. Maricela Moffitt, a county physician, has testified that Daniels willfully failed to take his medications, decreasing the likelihood that last-chance drugs would cure his deadly disease. Moreover, Moffitt alleged, Daniels endangered others by going out in public and entertaining visitors without wearing a mask.
Daniels has insisted that he did not understand the contagiousness or gravity of his condition, in part because TB patients in Russia do not wear masks. Daniels also has said he missed taking medications a few times because he overslept, not intentionally.
In August, a Maricopa County Superior Court commissioner ordered Daniels placed under involuntary quarantine. The jail ward at Maricopa Medical Center is considered the only Valley facility equipped for such confinement, so Daniels was housed under the supervision of sheriff’s detention officers.
According to court records, Daniels has spent much of his time in custody without a phone, TV, radio, shower or hot water. Windows are screened. Video cameras monitor constantly. Lights remain on 24 hours.
Earlier this week Daniels said he was told that his TB bacteria may be developing resistance to all antibiotics, and a portion of his lungs might require surgical removal. He said he was advised to write letters to his child in Moscow so the boy would have communication before his father’s death.
Cosme, the attorney, described Daniels as extremely depressed and fragile due to isolation and stress. She said the ACLU will soon file motions seeking an expedited hearing and an injunction to immediately improve Daniels’ treatment.
According to county documents obtained by The Arizona Republic through a public records request, Daniels’ confinement spawned a dispute among medical workers about the ethics and legality of his quarantine conditions.
In a Dec. 11 email, Inmate Health Services nurse Nancy Turco complained to Dr. Moffitt that the patient “really doesn’t need to be in a detention unit (because) it is not the least restrictive setting appropriate,” as required by state law.
Turco, who eventually quit her job and became an advocate for Daniels, followed up with a Jan. 3 email complaining about detention officers. “This patient is not arrested and has nothing to do with MCSO other than taking up a room in their ward,” Turco wrote. “It is clear, Marci, that your job is to protect the public. However, depriving a person of basic rights is wrong.”
Moffitt answered with a message that said: “The loss of liberty by our patients is not taken lightly by me. But you must realize that I also need to defend the citizens of Maricopa County. Unfortunately, this patient has lied repeatedly to me (and TB staff) and did … threaten many innocent persons.”
On Wednesday, Daniels said: “I’m slowly dying in this room. I didn’t realize how serious this (TB) was, and I regret that, but nothing justifies the kind of treatment I’ve received in here. The solitary confinement starts to mess with your head and it has taken a serious toll on my body.”
May 31st, 2007 at 9:59 pm
A friend just emailed this to me, and I think it is highly pertinent to our current situation.
I for one, IMHO, think we are living in a Kakistrocracy!
Definition: Kakistocracy
You may want to search Wiktionary for “Kakistocracy”.
Kakistocracy, rule by the least-able or least-principled of citizens, is a form of government in which the people least qualified to control the government are the people who control the government.
The origin of this word is Greek, derived from the superlative of the Greek adjective kakos (bad), the superlative form being kakistos (worst).
A modern day example (although fictitious), could include the structure of an office from Dilbert, where the least qualified employees within the office receive the bulk of the promotions and hold the highest and most powerful positions. However, few examples exist since the term is used far more for criticizing a current administration, similar to Trotskyists designation of state socialism as state capitalism