More SmartPak Dry Dog Food Recalled

On May 2, SmartPak recalled all orders of LiveSmart Adult Lamb and Brown Rice. This product tested positive for presence of melamine in a test received on May 2. After their first recall of LiveSmart Weight Management Chicken and Brown Rice, SmartPak sent all of their other dog food for testing, and Adult Lamb and Brown Rice came back with positive results. SmartPak is dry food and is made by Chenango Valley.

SmartPak is saying that this is odd because this particular dog food doesn’t contain any rice protein concentrate, wheat gluten or any of the other ingredients that are on FDA’s import watch list. They are saying it may be cross-contamination. (Oh by the way, it took 48 hours for the FDA to put up the press release).

NOTE: Many Menu Foods clients affected by Wednesday’s recall expansion are finally issuing their own press releases. Those companies are already listed in our recall list. Use our search feature to find news on affected brands.

The full release after the jump.

(Thanks Mike)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE — Plymouth, MA – May 3, 2007 –On 5/02/07, SmartPak Canine executed a voluntary nationwide recall on all lots of LiveSmart Adult Lamb and Brown Rice food. This product tested positive for presence of melamine in a test received earlier in the day.

The LiveSmart Lamb formula is only sold in portion-paks shipped straight to the consumer’s home each month, so there are no bags of potentially affected product on store shelves anywhere in the country. The focus of the recall has been informing affected customers via telephone, email, and letter. Ninety-nine percent of the roughly 220 pet owners feeding LiveSmart Adult Lamb via its portion pak pet food subscription service were contacted by live phone contact or message, and/or email. The company has had live contact with the majority of affected pet owners, and is continuing an aggressive outreach program to ensure that the notification has been received. To reduce likelihood of pet owners continuing to feed the food, replacement product is being shipped to affected customers free of charge.

At the time the recall was initiated, there had not been any ill effects reported in dogs. Through the efforts to reach out to all customers, the company has become aware of two instances of vomiting and learned that a 10 year old Rottweiler had passed away two weeks previous to the recall. These reports have been forwarded to FDA and are being investigated by the company’s Medical Director to determine if they are connected with the LiveSmart Adult Lamb formula. The company has asked that any dogs showing signs of kidney illness (loss of appetite, weakness, vomiting, diarrhea, excessive thirst) be seen by their veterinarian.

The company is presently investigating the source of the contamination in conjunction with its contract manufacturer, Chenango Valley Pet Food. The LiveSmart Adult Lamb formula does not contain rice protein concentrate nor wheat gluten. All the meat and vegetable matter, with the exception of New Zealand lamb, is of US origin. It appears that the product may have been cross contaminated at the Chenango plant by a prior batch of food unassociated with SmartPak that contained an ingredient that had been contaminated with melamine.

SmartPak has also tested each of its other four brands for melamine contamination, and there was no melamine detected in the samples of these foods. Those brands are LiveSmart Adult Chicken and Brown Rice, LiveSmart Senior Chicken and Brown Rice, and LiveSmart Puppy Chicken and Brown Rice.

Questions regarding this recall may be directed to Paal Gisholt, the company’s president and CEO, who may be reached at 800 461-8898. Affected customers are asked to call the company’s toll free customer service number at 800 461-8898, which is available 24/7. Additional information will be reported on the company’s website as it becomes available.

367 Responses to “More SmartPak Dry Dog Food Recalled”

  1. ally says:

    And so it begins.
    I was so hoping this week end was going to be different.

  2. elizabeth says:

    It’s sad, but no, it’s not “unexpected” at all. After the revelations of the past 6 weeks we now understand that absolutely ANYTHING can be in the cans, pouches and boxes of pet food no matter what the label says or what the original recipe was supposed to be. The manufacturing plant “partners” have not only poisoned innocent animals and broken pet owners’ hearts and spirits , but they have also ruined small independent businesses who trusted them to honor their contracts.

  3. Rachel N. says:

    Well at least Smartpak took the initiative to test all their food and contact their customers even if they only bought the food once, and bought it over a year ago!

  4. Debra says:

    “This was unexpected, since the formula does not contain rice protein concentrate, wheat gluten, or any of the ingredients on FDA’s import watch list.”

    Does this mean the melamine is in some OTHER ingredient also?

  5. Fiona says:

    So what in the world does this mean.???!!!!!!!!

    They say…….
    This was unexpected, since the formula does not contain rice protein concentrate, wheat gluten, or any of the ingredients on FDA’s import watch list.

    Now what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Is anything safe right now???????

  6. Rachel N. says:

    I contacted Smartpak and was informed that the FDA is still performing tests. If you have questions about their food specifically I would definitely call their 800#. They called me on Wednesday night to let me know about the recall and I had only ordered that type of food once, in March of 2006.

  7. elizabeth says:

    Debra, possibly a new ingredient is involved but IMO more likely it means someone at Chenango slipped a little extra protein into the formula without authorization from Smartpak. So horrible. The lawyers of America are going to have a field day.

  8. SandyC says:

    A lot of these recalled dog foods seem to contain brown rice. American brown rice?? hmmm

  9. Lisa Clay says:

    What about other products that contain BROWN RICE? Are they safe? Could the brown rice have been imported to a supplier in the US without the knowledge of the company?

    Many of the foods I’ve just started feeding contain it (none were recalled, none were made by Menu or in any Menu owned location).

  10. 5CatMom says:

    Does anyone know who makes Smartpak?

  11. elizabeth says:

    Hey, we’re runnning a little low on whole brown rice here at the factory…..NO PROB!!!!we’ll just use some nice fresh rice protein concentrate instead. Who’ll ever know?

    Sarcasm steam released. Feel better now.

  12. Lisa Clay says:

    Hi to Elizabeth - you are PROBABLY correct! I bet that’s what is discovered.


  13. Rachel N. says:

    Well Hopefully more companies will jump on the band wagon and have all their food tested whether or not it contains rice protein, wheat gluton or not! Many dog food companies have their foods manufactured in the same plant, and there is the risk of cross contamination.

  14. SandyC says:

    Apparently there is a brown rice protein that is exported from China. (Well of course) Wonder if this would be worth looking into?

    This is a list of exporter and there’s a lot of them:

  15. 4lgdfriend says:

    “It appears that the product may have been cross contaminated at the Chenango plant by a prior batch of food unassociated with SmartPak that contained an ingredient that had been contaminated with melamine.”

    Translation: an ingred was substituted wholesale OR the plant mixed cheaper ingred into more expensive ingred to increase profit.

    Translation: Crooks and Liars, all.

  16. 4lgdfriend says:

    i.e., petfood labelling requirements are worthless.

  17. Monika says:

    Where in the world is TERIC?

    Now i’m worried. For a poster who appeared here frequently and made an announcement of independently testing some food (Felidae and Kumpikat) and then to just disappear? It’s not adding up.

    Anyone know if teric has been posting?

  18. Joesmom says:

    Senator Durbin from IL has a letter on his website to send to the FDA

  19. denni says:

    Western Family’s in Canada has just issued a recall notice on their foods
    due to possible cross-contamination during mfg at Menu.

  20. Trudy Jackson says:

    Is this starting to sound like We live in a Third World Country? I guess We don’t grow anything, and there are no secrets. Right!! Trudy

  21. Eric says:

    The disappearance of Teric is quite weird. I have been very (im)patiently waiting for his test reults, but he’s gone MIA.

  22. Karen says:

    I have been looking for Teric many, many, many times a day (& night) all this week. It is very strange…….

  23. Steve says:

    Howl911 is still MIA also.

  24. teric says:

    Here I am. I’ve been out most of the week. Sorry to have made you guys wonder. The results are expected out today. It’s taking longer because I’m having the food tested for more than just Melamine.
    I will let you know as soon as I know something.

  25. menusux says:

    Re: Western Family Recall–their website has a cat food which is NOT listed on Menu’s Western Family Links:

    Dec/06/09 to Jan/24/10 Western Family Sliced Chicken & Turkey Cat Food
    85g UPC# 6263919598

    SmartPak & Drs. Foster & Smith (Recalled Adult Lite Cat Food & Adult Lite Dog Food-both dry-) both are produced at Chenango as per the petfoodlist website. This must be where the cross-contamination came from–the Drs. Foster & Smith dry foods containing RPC.

    (Let’s see how long it takes for Menu to make the change for Western Family and whether there will be a press release on it or not.)

  26. Eric says:

    So great to here from you! I for one was afraid something bad may have happened to you. And please do post the test results as soon as you get them. If you don’t mind me asking, what all are you testing for?

  27. Karen says:


    Welcome Back! As you can see, you were missed!

  28. teric says:


    I’m having it tested for everything that has been even slightly mentioned.
    Melamine, Aminopterin, Amilorine, Amiloride & Cyanuric Acid. I think that Melamine is the biggest concern but decided to test for it all anyway even though it took longer.
    I will let all of you know how it comes out.

  29. Monika says:

    Teric! Glad to see you’re back! We’ve all been anxiously waiting. I’m also happy to hear you’re testing for more than just melamine. Please check in with us as soon as you get the results.


  30. Bonni says:

    It says this is how it happened, not another ingredient. . . right??

    ” It appears that the product may have been cross contaminated at the Chenango plant by a prior batch of food unassociated with SmartPak that contained an ingredient that had been contaminated with melamine. “

  31. teric says:


    Thanks. I’m sorry to have left you guys in the dark. I should have let you know I wouldnt be around and posting for a few days.

    I do wish we were all chatting under different circumstances. This appears to be getting worse all the time not better as I had hoped.

  32. Bonni says:

    I think Canidae and Honest Kitchen are smart to test each batch just in case (even though neither contains those ingredients). Probably ALL companies should test every batch before releasing to market, right?

  33. Monika says:


    I’m glad to hear Canidae & Felidae is doing testing as I started feeding the Felidae dry to my cats. Glad to see Honest Kitchen (which i don’t use) is doing the same. Another one to add to that list is Kumpikat (and i’m sure Kumpi for dogs as well) - they are testing each batch before releasing. I also use the Kumpikat dry.

    This was posted by Evy (the president of Kumpi) on forums:

    « on: May 01, 2007, 09:47:45 PM »
    I just wanted to share something that will bring comfort to those who buy products manufactured at Crosswind Petfood. They have begun a new protocol where we can have our product made and they will store it while samples of the dry product are being analyzed for melamine specifically. The ‘dries’ that go into the food are being tested as well, but I think it’s pretty cool for them to do this.

    It will mean offsetting some of the production protocol, since in the past they run production and then ship after the food has cooled to ambient temperature. It’s a huge commitment on their part to offer to store xxx tons of food until the tests come back and the load can be released ‘melamine tested, melamine free’ and the neat thing about doing business with a small company like them, is they KNOW what it’s like to be a small company!!

    They have always exercised extreme caution anyways, but I am really psyched to know they put this into place for their customers (like me) who want to offer the safest products to their customers (like you) and it just is a good thing for the general public to know. This IS being taken very seriously and dealt with professionally

  34. Eric says:

    Where did you hear that Canidae/Felidae are testing all batches? There’s nothing on their website.

  35. Karen says:

    I hear Kumpi is testing also, but I can’t find reference to verify on Evy’s website. I also noticed that my Kumpi bag does not have any dates printed on it (best buy, etc). Maybe it is there and my eyes are now soooo strained I just don’t see the print against the silver.

  36. Andrea says:

    Well, it is Friday. I expect more news dumps later in the day.

    It’s always been that way -before the pet food fiasco ever began.

  37. Eric says:

    Evy has never said on the website that Kumpi is being tested, but she has posted at the Pet Food List and here on Itchmo. Here’s what Evy had to say about the date/lot stamp:

    The volume (of KumpiKat) that we’ve done has been so low and sold mostly in local stores, they have the current product to refer to for exp. date. The food you received was made in January of this year. I am adding printing up labels for those to my ‘list of things to do’.

    The full info can be found here:

  38. K9Rescue says:

    teric -
    Where did you send the food for testing & can you provide contact info? I’ve got some Royal Canin [U.S.] Urinary SO canned that was Rxd for my kitty who *suddenly* had bladder & kidney stones late last January (no prior history of UTI etc). He would get frothy & projectile vomit within 10 minutes of eating the Royal Canin, but no problems with his normal food. I stopped feeding the RC then, but still have 2 cans. I’m thinking it should be tested. Bare minimum, it should be pulled …. it’s got BHA/BHT in it. TIA.

  39. Monika says:


    I brought up the issue of no date on my own bag of 4lb. Kumpikat food I just received Wednesday. I thought I was just not seeing it on the silver bag. It kind of worried me that there wasn’t a way to ‘track’ my bag. But this is the answer I received on the Kumpi forum and I can live with that:

    Sorry, the volume that we’ve done has been so low and sold mostly in local stores, they have the current product to refer to for exp. date. The food you received was made in January of this year. I am adding printing up labels for those to my ‘list of things to do’

  40. Karen says:


    Thanks for the update. I should have seen that….

  41. Karen says:


    Thanks as well. Sorry to have you both go to all that trouble for something I should have noticed.

  42. Eric says:

    No problem at all. Glad to help!

  43. Bonni says:

    Re: CANIDAE. . . I spoke with John last week, and exec at the company. I talked to him for some time. He was the one who told me they were testing each batch voluntarially. Someone on my dog list said that she’d been told the same thing by the Canidae rep at a dog show several weeks before that.

  44. justjeneric says:

    Teric, thanks for taking this upon yourself. We are all very anxious to hear the results.

  45. teric says:


    Accutrace Testing in Arlington.

  46. Eric says:

    Sorry to be so bothersome, but any idea when today you might get the results? The anxienty is rather torturous.

  47. Eric says:

    Just an FYI to those feeding KumpiKat, here’s something Evy posted here a few days ago:

    …the food that you got was from the January run of KumpiKat and if you want to email me, I’d be more than happy to forward you emails on all of the positive feedback I’ve gotten about the product. My own Tonga kitty grrrl is doing really well and my manufacturer tested all their retains from the past ten months (so far lol and still going!) and have come up totally clean for the melamine specifically. I know that how little the kibble is throws some cats off and I know that generally speaking KumpiKat cats seem to eat less kibble than some other brands out there. So, I’m just wanting you not to worry k?

    As a matter of fact, I’m really proud how my manufacturer is handling this all and they’ve implemented a new system (and it’s been a royal pain for them, I’ll assure you to do this storage) where they are testing all dry food products for melamine before shipping them out. It requires a bit more lead time for the companies who do business with them, since they have limited space and now instead of doing a production run and shipping, it’ll be a production run, testing and then shipping. As a pet food company, we don’t *have* to do this, but I’m betting everyone will!!!

    My next run of food will be the third full week of this month and will probably put my trucking into the next week, but it’s worth it! The nice thing about doing business with such a small company is that they KNOW what it’s like to be a small company :)

  48. teric says:


    I feel the same way. It should be very soon. Before 5pm for sure.

  49. Eric says:

    Thank you again…and I hope I’m not being too annoying.

  50. teric says:


    You are not annoying at all. I am however very annoying to the lab people right now.

  51. LovingMyPets says:

    Eric, and teric,

    When the results are known later today, and you find that there is nothing wrong with them, I realized everyone will be so relieved. However, how can one be sure the next batch and lots won’t have something in them or that they’ve been cross contaminated? Would you trust any other batches and feed them to your pets?

  52. Claudette says:

    What about Purina and Meow Mix, both dry for cats. Anything, against either of these????? I feed both for my feral cats and am worried that I have missed something about either or both.

  53. Eric says:

    There is no real way to know for sure.

    I just e-mailed Evy with Kumpi about the potential for cross contamination. She has already contacted her manufacturer (Crosswind Industries), about this and will hopefully have any answer from them sometime today.

  54. Lorie says:

    Guys on the subject of KUMPIKAT Evy saw my post about being fearful of getting the first bad bag, she tooka chance and figured out by the unique spelling of my first name and mached it with my order info, and called me personally we talked for well over an hour she is a fabulous woman and really cares about our animals. Also told me about the Crosswinds testing all her product before bagging it etc…………………Now remember she called me after i all ready bought the bag of food not the other way around. Now that is what I call someone who cares. She told me several wonderful stories, and also how she became a pet food provider, after her own personal loss of a beloved pet.

  55. Eric says:

    I have a very hard time putting trust in someone, but Evy is rapidly earning mine. She is always ready to answer every question in the fullest, and if she doesn’t know the answer, she finds it for me. I’ll be sure to let everyone know what she tells me about potential cross contamination. Hopefully it won’t be a possibility or an issue.

  56. Tiff says:


    You mentioned cross contamination. Were there any other foods made by Crosswind Industries that were recalled? I have a hard time keeping up with them all!

  57. Lorie says:

    LovingMyPets ,

    That is my biggest fear about anything right now it is from one bag or can to the next you might get the bad one, it islike Russian Roullette with your pets life. Example only: fancy Feast i bought here in VA was from a tainted batch but that batch may never have touched the West coast and those people think I am crazy for saying itmade my cats sik. Trust me I wish they were right and i was just plain crazy instead of teh vet bills and worries of what is next in line for health issues from this.

  58. robin says:

    I’d like to know if Pied Piper or Evangers makes any food with ingredients from China. I’d feel better if I knew that.

  59. Eric says:

    No, Crosswind doesn’t make any of the (so far) recalled foods. The only two pet foods that I know they make are Kumpi/KumpiKat and Nature’s Logic. Neither of these foods use wheat gluten, rice protein, corn gluten, soy protein, etc. They also make human food there, which could potentially have wheat gluten in it. That’s where my concern comes in.

  60. Eric says:

    Pied Piper just had their name removed from The Pet Food List’s manufacturers area of the site. That seems a bit odd and suspicious.

  61. Ann H says:

    I guess I’m not understanding how enough of the contaminant could possibly be left after a processing run on the machines/storage to affect so many other products.

  62. 5CatMom says:


    Welcome back! We were afraid the black ‘choppers came and got you.

    BTW, has anyone received compensation on their vet bills from any of the recalled companies?

  63. LovingMyPets says:


    I sure know what you mean! I was feeding my kitten the Natural Balance Venison & Green Pea dry . . . 1 bag only. Then the recall came and I thought I was going to lose it. My kitten was fine, but I rushed to the Vet for blood work. She was normal. When I talked to NB, they indicated that I had an OLD batch and lot number expiring July 08 and it should be fine, and the bad bags with the gluten in them were expiring Sept. 08

    Wow, I sure was lucky I got an OLD bag. I’m the one at the market always digging and looking for the freshest products. Yikes!

  64. Eric says:

    Ann H.,
    The whole cross contamination thing does seem a bit fishy. Maybe, for once, Menu and other companies are just being safe. But I think it’s more likely though that we have more adding of ingredients without consent, etc.

  65. ally says:

    Pied Piper just had their name removed from The Pet Food List’s manufacturers area….

    I just love shift+command+4 on a Mac. Visual aids are so fun, ain’t they?
    Lucky I had that page pulled up & didn’t refresh, eh?

  66. Eric says:

    Yeah, Pied Piper we’re listed at the bottom of the page earlier, but in its place it now says:

    “Please note that as of 5/04/07 one manufacturer has had issues with their company name being listed here. They have been removed.”

  67. robin says:

    Another question that I am going to start asking is who procures the ingredients, the pet food company or the manufacturer. I would guess the manufacturer. Too many actors involved, I want a product made in house and those are few and far between.

  68. Ann H says:


    If they are adding additional ingredients to the formula, then the reasoning would be what? Boosting protein in the product? Isn’t the product recipe supposed to be sufficiently balanced already?

  69. Carol says:

    5cat mom- in regards to reimbursement-I sent my information packets for my 2 cats off to Menu on Monday–I’ll post as soon as I get any type of response back, good news or bad. I did have the help of a local reporter NBC affiliate in RI who ran my 2 cats story on 3/17-3/19 and who talked to the Media rep on 3/17 at Menu (I copied down all info before it disappeared from website)and he gave her my name and cats’ info and she told him they would pay so I’ll be contacting him if they change their mind—never mind having in it in print that they would reimburse pet owners–my only concern is that they may ask for concrete proof such as lab work for which there is no test done on live animals (as I know of today-if I’m wrong—LET ME KNOW!!))

  70. ally says:

    Eric - the screenie I grabbed used to be under Canine Caviar.
    And another one joins the “now you see it, now you don’t” list.

    But yes indeedy I can see it. Yep.
    *pats hard drive & smiles angelically*

  71. Eric says:

    Ann H.,
    I have no idea why the manufacturers would do this, but American Nutrition supposedly did it to a whole load of companies’ products, so there’s no reason to think that Menu or any others would be above it.

  72. 5CatMom says:

    Ann H,

    Many posters aren’t buying the “cross contamination” story.

    Me neither. Too many companies, too many foods are affected by yet another round of recalls.

    One theory is that the contract company makes the same food for everyone, and only the bag is different.

  73. Eric says:

    I had never considered the ’same food’ theory. Interesting…

  74. teric says:


    We can not be assured that the next bag we buy is or isnt safe. If I am told that the bags I have now are safe then I plan to purchase several of the largest bags available of the same kind. I’ll scoop some out of each bag and have those tested prior to feeding it to my kids. Doing this is the only way I’ll feel 100% certain that what I’m feeding is safe.

    I made some homemade food last weekend only to find out about the toxic chickens. “?” I’m going to throw it out.

  75. teric says:

    Yeah, Pied Piper we’re listed at the bottom of the page earlier, but in its place it now says:

    “Please note that as of 5/04/07 one manufacturer has had issues with their company name being listed here. They have been removed.”

    What does this mean. Canidae is made by Pied Piper.

  76. Gail B says:

    “Isn’t the product recipe supposed to be sufficiently balanced already?”

    The formulation may be balanced, but the raw ingredients on hand may not exactly match the “blueprint”. When packaged or bagged the raw ingredients may have tested XX%, but time and storage conditions may degrade the ingredients.

    The manufacturer could then be adding ingredients (like RPC) to boost the values to the required levels. In the case of the two companies who had RPC added without their knowledge or consent, that might be why their product formulations were “adjusted”.

  77. Eric says:

    For some reason it seems that Canidae doesn’t want anyone to know who makes their food and Pied Piper doesn’t want anyone to know what food they make. It’s all strange if you ask me, especially since the Pied Piper website says they’re “100% wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate free”. You’d think they’d want people to know what food they make.

  78. Debra says:

    Could be the contract companies were buying lower cost, lower quality ingredients and supplementing with RPC to get the guaranteed analysis back to where it’s supposed to be. I’d like to know what kind of arrangement there was between the companies - “if ingredient X is unavailable, you can substitute or supplement with ___” or “no substitutions.”

  79. Carol says:

    Has anyone seen or heard feedback regaarding whether the tainted chicken/pork made its way back into pet food–NV, OMH, and Merrick did not have any answers yesterday. No new updates at their websites. Meriick did say to call back in 2 days as they were looking into it –as well as OMH said they were doing the same and would post it on their website-no email back from NV yet.

  80. Ann H says:

    Gail B, kinda sounds like the China syndrome :(

  81. teric says:

    Yes Eric you would think that. You would think they would be proud of the fact not hide it????? Really draws a concern for me.

  82. 5CatMom says:


    Good for you. Getting reimbursed won’t make sick kitties well or bring back dead ones, but maybe it’ll make the companies think about the poison they put their names on.

    To Claudette Says,

    Hon, don’t mean to be critical, but it might be best to avoid all BIG BRANDS and STORE BRANDS for a while because of their (other) recalled products.

  83. ally says:

    teric at 2:15 pm:
    “What does this mean. Canidae is made by Pied Piper.”

    I know.
    Which is why I’ve been watching everything recall related like a HAWK.
    I’m currently using Canidae’s kibble.

    My dogs are still doin’ fine though.
    Thank Yahvo.

    Have started adding home cooked to their kibble for practice just in case.
    My dogs love it. Heck, they eat better than I do.

  84. Ann H says:

    Well, if Canidae is Pied Piper, the Felidae is made by them too?

    If they’re doing that, then I’m trashing the Felidae my cats are eating.

    If they’re hiding, then they got something to hide. Where there’s smoke there’s fire…

    I’ve already fed recalled, I am not chancing it watching this poor judgment /worse PR move by Pied Piper or Canidae.

  85. Danielle says:

    The listing on only listed Pied Piper as making Canine Caviar. Canidae wasn’t listed there (yet), at least not last time I checked. Maybe they didn’t want people thinking they produced the contaminated Canine Caviar?

  86. Sandi K says:

    I cant help but think what everyone is thinking is “cross-contamination” is still yet an unidentified toxin…..

  87. ally says:

    Eric: “For some reason it seems that Canidae doesn’t want anyone to know who makes their food and Pied Piper doesn’t want anyone to know what food they make.”

    I’s been conjectured on the blogs that Canidae may be under some type of legality/contract thingy with Pied Piper and can’t disclose. I honestly don’t know, but it is odd.

  88. Danielle says:

    Ann H.,
    Pied Piper makes the Canidae dry. I’m assuming they made Felidae too. The Canidae & Felidae canned is made by Evangers.

  89. robin says:

    Is any product recalled made by Pied Piper?

  90. CathyA says:

    Teric said: I’m having it tested for everything that has been even slightly mentioned. Melamine, Aminopterin, Amilorine, Amiloride & Cyanuric Acid.

    Bless you! This is one of my MAJOR questions, is amiloride IN the food or did the cat/dog metabolize it from something else. Please also be sure to notify Christie at PC and maybe even send an email to Dr. Pion.

    # Ann H Says:
    May 4th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
    If they are adding additional ingredients to the formula, then the reasoning would be what? Boosting protein in the product?

    Ann H - it’s to make up % protein in place of pricey meat. Needless to say RPC doesn’t have the same amino acid profile as meat. While a pet food company may not explicitly know what a pet food manufacturer put in the food (We didn’t know they were doing that!), certainly when they sign a contract with a manufacturer to produce their food at a certain price, they must implicitly understand that when ingredient costs go up, the ingredients may change. If they don’t have clauses to forbid substitution they’re condoning it.

  91. Ann H says:

    It’s the dry that I’m using.
    Note: WAS using. I just dumped the bowls and the rest of the Felidae.

  92. Sandi K says:

    Teric, can I ask how much the test is costing you, just for our sake? We will be getting our poor girl’s food tested at some point after we get $6000.00 in vet and cremation bills paid off. And did you have to go thru a vet or would they allow you to send samples on your own? Thank you Teric, what you are doing is wonderful and helps us all!

  93. Eric says:

    As far as I know, nothing made by Pied Piper has been recalled.

  94. Katie says:

    Katie ( the other Katie)

    New Symptoms: Help!

    Just rec’d word from vet this AM, that urine test done on Tues, has blood in it, not RBC’s but blood. Sp G is still abnormal and protein positive. Not showing symptoms of infection - having a cysto and culture next Fri. But wondering, if this has happened to anyone else? Mine is a dog. But cat or dog?

    Thanks Itchmo, you’re the greatest!


  95. 5CatMom says:


    To me, it just defies credulity that a contract company would stop the production line, clean out all the equipment, reload the hoppers with the “good stuff”, run get the bags for the premium company, then start up the line again.

    Much easier to just keep the production line running and change bags. This explains why there’s RPC in the food (but not in the recipe), and why the “cross contamination” is widespread.

  96. Lorie says:

    You guys i have been trying to sy do you really think ANI in UTAH, just decided to start using a new ingredient for Blue Buffalo and way across the country CJ Foods decided to do the same to the dry kitten formula for Blue Buffalo. Blue Buffalo told both themanufactures to use the cheaper ingredients because suppliers raised there prices across the boards in Oct-Nov. Blue Buffalo was cutting costs one the sly without changing the bags and now trying to say they knew nothing about it, to save face cause they got caught with their pants down. Think about it do you really think ANI and CJ foods both decided to go behind their back ………………..

  97. ally says:

    robin Says: at 2:30 pm
    “Is any product recalled made by Pied Piper?”

    I believe it was some of Canine Caviar’s wet food that was recalled and made by Pied Piper.

  98. robin says:


    I think you are correct.

  99. ally says:

    From Canine Caviar’s website:

    “Canine Caviar is voluntarily recalling less than 1500 cans in circulation nationally (not cases) and expects to have this collected within 48 hours of April 27, 2007. This unexpected situation is due to the fact that our canned food co-packer was using ingredients that were not authorized by Canine Caviar.”

    Previously, the Pet Food List had Pied Piper listed as a manufacturer of Canine Caviar.
    That is the screen grab I have.

  100. Lorie says:

    Canine Cavier was made at ANI

  101. johnypaycut says:

    Kudo’s for KumpiKat!! ,
    When does it become available for us , outsiders (non-colorado)?
    i’d buy it.. ( after evy’s done being tested for melamine)?
    see , she never had to try and sell us on kumpi?
    i’l buy !

  102. robin says:

    Thanks all,

    Then that does it for me with Canidae and Felidae made by Pied Piper. All raw for my crew.

  103. Eric says:

    I believe Lorie is correct, that the Canine Cavier that was recalled was wet and made by ANI.

  104. Sindawe says:

    “I’ve got some Royal Canin [U.S.] Urinary SO canned that was Rxd for my kitty who *suddenly* had bladder & kidney stones late last January (no prior history of UTI etc). He would get frothy & projectile vomit within 10 minutes of eating the Royal Canin, but no problems with his normal food.”

    I’ve had similar experiences with one cat who was on Royal Canin control formula, both dry and canned. He would eat the food, then about 10-15 min later puke it back up (usually on the carpet). I’ve switched him to Evo dry and Wellness canned (before the issue with Wellness arose), no more puking up the food even though he gobbles the Evo as fast as he can.

    Another cat was on the RC Control and about six months the formulation changed somehow. Consistency of the canned changed and that cat who used to devour his evening meal would just pick at it and leave most uneaten. This same cat who for years has had lots of dander and dry skin, now has none.

    No more Royal Canin in this house.

  105. Danielle says:

    The recalled Canine Caviar was made by ANI. That was recalled because of the rice protein, along with NB. Pied Piper makes the Canine Caviar dry, which was not recalled. Pied Piper’s website states that their facility is 100% gluten and rice protein concentrate free.

    The Canine Caviar listing on thepetfoodlist used to say that their dry was made at Pied Piper, but now says that info was removed at the manufacturer’s request and now just says that the kibble is made at a private plant in TX.

  106. Eric says:

    I ordered Kumpi and KumpiKat from the website, but’s it’s also available in a handful of states from independent retailers.

  107. Jo says:

    Hi, all. Have been checking Itchmo, howl911 & petconnection several times each day since the beginning of the recall to keep my self abreast of all the madness. I have 10 cats & a French Bulldog to keep safe.

    I am new to this blog posting, however. Love reading your posts! The info & insight you provide is SO helpful! My heart goes out to all of you who have lost your precious babies & to those who are fighting illness.

    My question is: Several of you have praised KumpiKat. It’s owner sounds really great, but why should I get excited about feeding this food when it contains rice flour? Regardless of whether or not the rice flour is tainted, why do they put such an ingredient in a cat food, and then put such a hefty price on it? I just don’t see where their food shines so much over others like CA Natural, Felidae, Nature’s Variety, etc. that warrants paying such a high price. Comments from those of you who feed it?

    BTW, I have tried all 3 canned formulas & all 3 dry formulas of Felidae on my cats & they would just NOT go for it. Beats all I’ve ever seen. And like some of you, I’m bothered as to why Canidae does not publicize who their manufacturers are.

    I am currently feeding CA Natural Chicken & Brown Rice dry & the cats love it. I have given them samples of tons of different premium foods since the recall & this food — plus Sensible Choice Senior (their previous dry food) are the 2 they love BY FAR.

    Canned cat foods I’ve had good luck with, acceptance wise, are Sensible Choice & SOME of the Merrick formulas. The cats really liked Natural Balance Ultra, too, but I don’t trust NB anymore.

    Love you all — feel a strong kinship with you because of all this. We must stick together & fight for our fur kids!

  108. Lorie says:

    ORIGINAL POST: Itchmo has learned that the list of foods recalled by American Nutrition has expanded to include the following 4 dog food items:

    Mulligan Stew Chicken 13.2oz
    Mulligan Stew Turkey 13.2oz
    Canine Caviar Gourmet Beaver 13.2oz
    Canine Caviar Gourmet Turkey 13.2oz

  109. ally says:

    Eric - yes, ANI has the recalled Canine Caviar listed on their site.
    But that doesn’t explain why CC requested Pied Piper be removed from their previous information listing.

  110. Sandy says:

    Hey Johnyaycut…..order the KUMPIKAT off her website it cost a small amount to have it fed exed but it is good and my cats love it. I love how small the kibble is

  111. ally says:

    Danielle Says: at 2:51 pm
    “The Canine Caviar listing on thepetfoodlist used to say that their dry was made at Pied Piper”

    Not according to the old web site for the Pet Food List’s Canine Caviar info I’m looking at and took a screen grab of. I have both the old and revised windows open right now. The old version for Canine Caviar says:

    “Manufacturer is Pied Piper”
    “# Kibble is manufactured at a private plant in Texas”

    Pied Piper is located in Hamlin, TX.

    Trust me, if Pied Piper doesn’t make CC’s dry, I’ll be thrilled in relation to Canidae. I have no problem if they do not. I’m just keeping a watch, like all the rest of you.

    I honestly don’t trust ANYONE anymore & I doubt I’ll ever do so again.

  112. Jo says:

    For those of you looking for safer foods to eat — and may be interested in feeding raw diets…Just read a detailed brochure from Primal Pet Foods (raw cat/dog foods based in San Francisco) given to me by a local retailer. They say, “All of the ingredients found in Primal Formulas are purchased from local suppliers who are recognized for their superior quality human-grade products & the highest standards of safe food handling.”

  113. Jo says:

    Sorry, in my last posting, I meant to type “safer food to FEED, not eat!” : )

  114. Joan says:

    I have noticed in my inquires to pet food companies - some messages come into my sent folder and some do not. My last inquiry in regards to Nature’s Variety raw rabbit did not register in my sent items. Why would they do this? I did copy and paste my second inquiry for my records, for what it’s worth.

    In regards to NV I have no varification that I even sent a question to them.

  115. ally says:

    Danielle - sorry, I think we’re on the same page.
    The old listing didn’t say Pied Piper made the dry, but to me it is inferred.

  116. Lorie says:


    I am with you I am done trusting anyone. My cats have shown symptoms twice now since March 23rd not sure if the symptoms on April 27th were relapse or one of the new brands I was using. Hard to figure out what made your kids sick if none of the crap is ever put on the list becasue they lie. Done with commercial food probably for life. No specific food that my kids have eaten since day one is on that list.Other varities brands

    Eukanubal dry, Fancy Feast, Hills SD C/D wet and dry

    after recall started used Merrick, and Solid Gold Tuna thats it.

  117. Anne says:

    I’ve been reading all your posts for weeks now and this is the first time posting. I am still so confused with what foods to give my two cats. I have tried so many different brands, and have had no luck. The guys refuse to eat any of the new dry foods I have tried, including Natural Balance, Wellness, and Life’s Abundance. They will only eat their Nutro Max Cat lite. As for the wet foods, they turned up their noses at Merrick, Innova, California Natural, Natural Balance and any others I got. They will only eat Whiskas. I did just place an order for Kumpikat. I had sent an email to Evy and she responded the same day and said if they don’t like it she will refund the money. I thought I would take a chance.

  118. Eric says:

    All I can tell you about Kumpi and KumpiKat is contact Evy and ask her any questions you have. She’ll be more than happy to answer all of your questions.

  119. Eric says:

    It seems that with KumpiKat, some cats love it right away and others take a while to warm up to it. Speaking from experience, my five cats all took a few days to warm up to it, but are all eating it now. So don’t give up right away, but also make sure your kitties aren’t starving themselves either.

  120. Anonymous says:

    ““I’ve got some Royal Canin [U.S.] Urinary SO canned that was Rxd for my kitty who *suddenly* had bladder & kidney stones late last January (no prior history of UTI etc). He would get frothy & projectile vomit within 10 minutes of eating the Royal Canin, but no problems with his normal food.”

    I’ve had similar experiences with one cat who was on Royal Canin control formula, both dry and canned. He would eat the food, then about 10-15 min later puke it back up (usually on the carpet). ”

    Ditto to these two. My cats were both eating RC Urinary SO dry and started throwing up and not eating their food. One stopped playing (very unusual for this cat) and started hiding. After some vet trips and hydration (right at the start of the recalls - no tests done), I switched food and they both started playing a lot and had appetites. They were good on Fromm for a while but won’t touch the last bag for some odd reason. So I switched again to Evo. Will this ever stop?!

  121. Danielle says:

    Ally: I must have made the connection in my head too. I do think I read it somewhere though.

    I still think the removal of the name has to do with confidentiality agreements rather than a problem at the plant. A few days ago someone on here was told by Pied Piper that PP could not disclose the names of anyone they manufacture for without the companies’ permission. Besides, hiding the name of who they manufacture for would not help them if the company had to issue a recall. So if there is a problem there now, it would become public knowledge anyway, and defeat the purpose of removing their name from the list.

    I’m just saying I wouldn’t read the removal of the listing as meaning there is a problem at the plant. It sounds like a legal issue to me. Now if Teric’s tests come back that there is a problem with Canidae/Felidae, I will gladly eat my words.

  122. ally says:

    Danielle said:
    “I still think the removal of the name has to do with confidentiality agreements rather than a problem at the plant”

    I do too. At least that’s my fondest hope and daily chant while feeding Canidae dry to my dogs and keeping a VERY close eye on them.

    I will join you eating my words if need be. I have no problem whatsoever doing so. I DO have a problem with pet food companies not coming forward. In the case of Canidae or Evangers (both of which I’m feeding), they both better pray I don’t ever see them on the recall list.

    Like I said earlier, I’ve begin my forays into home cooking to be prepared. Am adding to their kibble for now, but if need be, I’ll cook their entire meal. I know they would love it if I did. If only it didn’t take so much time, but if it comes to that, I’ll make time.

  123. Bill says:

    The following was just posted on Natura’s website.

    Natura’s cans are made exclusively at the South Dakota plant which was not involved in making any of the recalled foods (including the latest announcement).This plant does not use wheat gluten, corn gluten or rice gluten in any of its production and therefore it is impossible for cross contamination to occur.
    Natura has tested all canned food (as well as our dry and baked treats) for the presence of melamine at an independent laboratory and have the results to confirm that all of these tests show that our products are free from melamine contamination.
    As of last week, Natura has instituted a policy whereby ALL production of cans, dry and baked treats is being tested for melamine before being released for sale.

  124. Barb says:

    Whoa………..wait a minute. WTF? So, who is Pied Piper? I feed all three dogs canidae dry lamb and rice. Should I be concerned? What is going on now. Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Am I reading tooo many blogs?

  125. Rhonda says:

    Having lost all trust in NB we switched our 3 cats to KumpiKat a week ago today. All three dove into their bowls and seem to seldom come up for air! They love this food and in 7 days have already eaten half the bag of food or more.

    Have had far more problems trying to find a canned food that they are willing to eat and that I’m willing to feed. They wouldn’t eat Merrick so I tried Evangers. The Braised Organic Chicken and the Turkey and Butternut Squash were refused but so far all 3 are willing to eat the Holistic Pheasant Dinner.

  126. elizabeth says:

    A friend of mine and fellow cat lover has a theory that cats are actually aliens from another planet sent here many years ago to blend in and report back on us. That when they stare off into space with tail switching they are sending and receiving messages from the “mother ship” and that they are finicky eaters because they have just never adjusted to the food offerings here on planet earth.

  127. Lorie says:

    It’s very sad that almost daily there is another food added, we are not even sure what to feed our beloved pets. I am the proud mom of 2 golden retirever’s and 1 shih tzu I have been watching this very close and decided to change their food to Orijen no grains.

    Here is the site where you can read about this food, Ibought it today after asking a pet store in my town to bring it in, well I am glad I did. It is costly but our pets are worth it.

  128. Lorie says:

    Ok that is not me above

  129. Lorie says:

    I never saw someone else spell their name like mine

  130. LorieVA says:

    The Lorie with the 2 cats not dogs will now be LorieVA

  131. 4lgdfriend says:

    Jo: I believe Sensible Choice is made by Royal Canin. You probably know that. If not………now you do.

  132. Patty L says:

    China now testing food for chemicals. I wonder how serious this testing is.

  133. SinbadsMom says:

    I can’t help wondering how much of the trouble with foods containing rice, including brown rice (which is simply rice with the bran left on) rather than rice protein concentrate, might be due to genetically engineered or modified (GE/GM) crops. Please check the web pages below. Rice in both China and the US has been contaminated by GM rice, and as the third link there indicates, the problem is likely to get worse.

    As the Washington Post article at the first link there explains, the USDA’s response last year to finding out an illegal variety of genetically engineered rice had contaminated the food supply was to suddenly approve it, skipping a lot of tests.

    That’s our regulatory agencies for you — can’t worry about such things as food safety when profits are at risk…

    This article, though it’s specifically about wheat, points out some of the risks of genetically altered grains:


  134. Anonymous says:

    Still waiting to know the other RPC companies…what the h are they waiting for? Figuring we ‘trust’ them until they tell us different????
    ha ha. right.

  135. Gina says:

    I also pray that the name removal is just a legal thing.. I’ve been feeding Canidae dry for the last year and we’ve been feeding out of the same bag for the last 2 months. Our Westie has been doing great with it and she just went in for a routine checkup at the vet and the vet reported back that her blood and urine samples were “perfect”. In fact, the vet said she was quite impressed with her results. This gives me a little piece of mind… but I still can’t help feeling cautious and wondering what’s going to happen next..

  136. Danielle says:

    If you scroll back in the messages posted since 12-1:00 you will see what we are talking about with Pied Piper. I don’t want to rehash it because it will probably just set off a chain of more confusion. In short, Pied Piper is the manufacturer for Canidae dry food. There is no recall with Pied Piper food, nor any complaints voiced on here, but for some reason they asked that their name be removed from the list.

    People on this blog were speculating that means there is a problem at the plant and that Canidae now cannot be trusted. My post was merely saying don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

    As for Canidae, there is a post in the forums under the vegetable protein thread that says a top executive with the company said all batches are tested daily. The poster Teric sent samples to a lab of every food she was feeding including Canidae & Felidae, just for peace of mind, and is expecting the results back today. Hope that brings you up to speed.

    My 3 dogs are on the lamb & rice as well, and the canned food switching off with Evangers. I am not concerned, especially after hearing they are testing everything now, but would still like Teric’s results to put my mind at ease because every time I come on here people make me second-guess myself.

    (And although I used to agree that home cooking was better, now I’m not so sure that we can trust any human food any more. Summer’s coming and I’m waiting to see what vegetables are recalled this year, not to mention the melamine-enhanced meat.)

  137. Eric says:

    Don’t worry, Pied Piper is the manufacturer of Canidae and Felidae dry foods. So far, to my knowledge, they haven’t any products recalled. The discussion is over the fact that Canidae refuses to say who manufactures their food and Pied Piper refuses to say what food they manufacture. Most of us assume there are confidentiality agreements.

  138. Danielle says:

    Actually that reminds me, my dog just had bloodwork done last night because he needs to have two moles removed on Monday. That should also tell us if Canidae is ok since he’s been on it for a month.

  139. LorieVA says:

    Does anyone know how to cook a whole chicken in crockpot. Was told this is the best way for drippings. My cats are wanting gravy, will only eat the dry chicken out of my hands. My divas are a little spoiled these days, but it making me late for work in the morning trying to get them fed

  140. LorieVA says:

    Not to burst bubbles but my cats bloodwork is fine. But the still have GI problems and require pepcid. Not all things are kidney related that come from this

  141. LorieVA says:

    I lab rats cyauric acid caused lesions in the GI track not kidney damage

  142. Monica S. says:

    Thanks to everyone who brings new informations to help each other to find the good food to save our animals….. I Have 2 dogs and 2 cats……My cats were on Hill’s DD for allergy. Venison and green peas….Since 3 years they have been on that food canned and dry food DD. The last past weeks , they refused to eat them, they eat a bit and then refuse… is not normal , since they were eating this for few years (these products are not on the recall) I phone the clinic were I bought, but they say there is no problem with this food. I bought Royal Canin VR sensitivity canned ( not on the recall) the dry one is on the recall list. …….they eat it , but I am afraid because I just learn today that it is made by menu foods (not a reference) I e mail Royal Canin and receive the information……On the phone they told me it was made in their own plant and on the e mail , they say it’ s Menu Foods. My cats are not sick but they lost weight…..
    They use to eat dry and canned and now they eat only canned… I bought dry and canned Solid Gold, 1 of my cat eats few dry and the other does’not want it……they accept the canned…

    I think Solid gold is made at Diamond…….why isn’t safe, what happent at Diamond? Is it because of Natural balance

    I am going to get tomorrow Origen dry and Merrick canned …..Is it safe ? can someody help me in my choice for my cats!! they refused to eat Evo dry and Felidae …………. I give my dogs home made food and a bit of Evo dry ……..and cookies from cloud star the regular cookies, is that safe?

    Me too I was waiting for Teri ……:)) and his test…… I am from Quebec , Canada , and I am very please to have found this site…..I go few houres a day to see…….
    Thanks Itchmo and all of you, friends for your informations

    Monica S.

  143. Hattie says:

    Been here for weeks now, haven’t posted much, just a couple times. All the info you guys have is so helpful.

    johnnypaycut -
    I am in Texas panhandle, I ordered KumpiKat thru the website and had no problems with it getting here quickly and fresh. The shipping is included in the price. It’s worth it. I am med. retired, so my income isn’t much, but the KumpiKat can fit in.

    I had talked to Evy a few times before I ordered and decided to take a chance, it’s been 4 weeks now since I changed my cats over and I’m really glad I did. (4 weeks and 4 bags, I finally ordered the big bag) Evy has called me many times since my purchase to answer my questions and find out how my kitties are doing, I am really impressed. She remains in contact with me still. Right now, I have no trust in anyone, except — I do trust Evy.

    My cats all like the KumpiKat a lot. They like the small kibble, drag the bag around the house to get at it. My youngest hesitated a bit, but then dived in. The oldest liked it right away, the tiny kibble is easy for him to eat. Everyone is much more playful than before, one of mine had allergy symptoms that are gone now (I don’t know exactly what he was allergic to, must have been something in his food). My oldest (15) is even doing things he hasn’t done in years, like get up on the bed. I hadn’t expected such results, really. I was just really scared about what to feed them after the recalls started in March, I just didn’t want to kill them! What a wonderful bonus that they all feel better as well.

    Email or call Evy if you have any questions, like everybody says. She will really address your concerns, and she is fast — you get her right away on the phone, she answers it. Your email questions get answered within hours, too. Given how slow responses are from other pet food companies, this is really nice.

    I’m sorry this is so long, I guess I talk too much. That’s why I rarely post.

  144. 4lgdfriend says:

    SinbadsMom: Rice in both China and the US has been contaminated by GM rice,
    RIGHT. and also elevated levels of arsenic in rice;
    eighty percent of the rice grown here comes from states in the South Central part of the country. A lot of it is grown in former cotton fields. And when cotton was grown there, a lot of these fields were treated with pesticides that contained arsenic. … investigated rice from these fields and he found that it contains unusually high levels of the toxic heavy metal.
    … it’s really the populations who consume a high amount of rice that should be concerned. [AS IN MANY PETFOODS]

  145. Eric says:

    I new you’d said that your kitties were having GI problems. What symptoms are they showing?

  146. Eric says:

    “knew” not “new”…my typing skills have been thrown out the window.

  147. CathyA says:

    That when they stare off into space with tail switching they are sending and receiving messages from the “mother ship”

    Uh Elizabeth, no, I have it on good authority they are talking to The Giant Head!

  148. Barb says:

    Thanks to all for giving me a little piece of mind re canidae. I have fed canidae to all my dogs for the last 9 years. Of course i added the wet recalled garbage for many years thinking it was the best food out there. Nothing replaces my newly found meatloaf for the dogs and us! I made a HUGE meatloaf last night, threw in some carrots and took two people to lift it out of the oven. ha! We all had a feast. But, I did add a little canidae to their meatloaf. Geezzzzz. Me scared? Yes. No more chicken now for a while……..


    Hot in Arizona.

  149. LorieVA says:

    They still seem to gag sometimes at the sight of food and drool, have trouble chewing keeping it in their mouth. they are burpy and do sstill do alittle too much lip licking. They also do not like to be handled and touched as much as they use to. My littlest geisha was use to be on my lap the minute I sat down. : ) The pepcid seems to work though and they perk right back up. I just hope it doesn’t go any further. Katie’s dog has the same GI issues and now the poor dog has blood in its urine. Now I am wondering if mine are next. this nightmare is never going to be over a vetin an article I read right after this happened predicted the ones who quickly died got off lucky the survivors were going to be the ones who suffer. i am starting to believe him.

  150. Eric says:

    If staring into space and twitching of the tail is communication with the ‘mother ship’, my cat Yoda must be a communications specialist. He spends most of his time (when not sleeping or eating) staring and twitching. He has a very active tail.

  151. Jo says:

    I LOVED your post about alien cats. It gave me a very welcomed and needed, outloud laugh. And with 10 cats, I could sure relate!

  152. Eric says:

    That’s so sad, but I really hope they pull through. You and your kitties will remain in my prayers.

  153. Lorie says:

    Monica S

    I am in Ont Canada, please try the Orijen it’s amazing and I believe the best food we can buy for our pets.

  154. E. Hamilton says:

    A thread should be started in the forum for testing because it appears that the FDA and “certain” companies cannot be trusted , so a lot of food and other things are being sent to labs, various labs and labs that will not be announced until tests have been completed, to be on the SAFE side and reduce risk of clerical errors, cross contamination etc.
    Testing of human urine for traces of several poisons may well be done also.

  155. Lorie says:

    Lorie VA, sorry I didn’t realize that there was someone with the same spelling as mine.

  156. LorieVA says:

    Hi Lorie in Canada i am Lorie with the E in VA too funny,

  157. Eric says:

    The more Lories the better…that’s what I always say.

  158. blkcatgal says:

    My problem is that I have a cat with food allergies and I can’t feed him some of these foods like Kumpikat. He is on a limited ingredient diet….was eating the NB venison and peas dry until the recall (fortunately I had an old bag too) and NB venison and peas canned. I’m still feeding him the NB canned despite my misgivings with NB and switched to Royal Canin IVD venison and peas dry despite my misgivings with RC. If I feed him something else, he breaks out with mouth sores and gets all itchy. I’m not real happy about feeding him these foods and so far he hasn’t had any problems.

    Anyone have any better ideas for me?

  159. Evy says:

    Hiya All ~

    I just got off of the phone with my manufacturer. There is zero chance of cross contamination with any Kumpi product and for two reasons. Number one, they do a thorough cleaning inbetween production runs. BUT the other reason is that they run formulas the same day that have ‘like’ ingredients in them.

    For instance, on April 3rd when I had a production run scheduled, the meat for that day was rejected and two other companys besides mine had to have their production run rescheduled. It’s easier for them when they are ‘cooking’ to have as many similar ingredients as possible.

    Also, the other pad of insurance (have I mentioned how much I love Crosswinds?? lol) is they actually pulled my production runs from this year and checked to verify. I was the first run except for one day and there was not even any corn gluten in the run before mine OR wheat gluten OR rice protein concentrate OR any source that could be an indicator for contamination.

    They have done tests on the dries used in all the products manufactured for melamine (so far they’ve made it back ten months and are still going, just for safetys sake) and everything has come up negative.

    The SmartPak cross contamination issue was within their own product line. They had the Weight Management formula run and probably went ahead and had the other formulas run the same day. As small as the batches are, that would make sense why they are having cross contamination issues. But it was within their own product line.

    Eric, please note that LorieVA cat’s had GI problems before eating the KumpiKat, unless she has already posted that while I was writing this :)

    Once again, I have to say I love doing business with a smaller manufacturer like Crosswinds whose local economy depends on their integrity. You can’t visit the place without sensing the community pride in what they do, the same gal answers the phone as years ago - ditto with production managers, etc. There is virtually no turnover in their employment there and it’s a very stable company. They knew far before any of us how tenuous the pet food industry is and implemented safeguards long before any of this happened to make sure their products were as safe as could be.

    The fact that only whole US grains are used in my product line I owe to the genius of my nutritionist. He believes that protein should come from meat and not grain sources.

    Well, phone is ringing, gotta go for now :)

  160. LorieVA says:


    Even if I wouldn’t of added the VA to my name people would be able to tell us apart by my wonderful typing skills

  161. E. Hamilton says:

    I just posted the below to petconnection.
    What do you guys think?
    Have to be done quick to get the info out there, if we got emails for lawyers or contacts and made sure they knew about all this good info it would help everyone I think.

    All the really good research being done here could be of use to every single lawyer doing a class action lawsuit against Menu or companies yet to be named, maybe a list of lawyers emails should be started at itchmo too?
    Help them move faster to prevent assets from vanishing like some documents.
    If we have the yes of hungry lawyers on this site, along with all the other eyes, it couldn’t hurt, right?

  162. ally says:

    Barb, somewhere buried deep within the vault of Itchmo’s blog comments (I think about a week ago), a commentor named Boutique Owner posted that Pied Piper does make Canidae (dry IIRC). I asked her if she could tell me where she got her information and she told me from her Canidae representative. She also said she has no reason not to believe them.

    Hold on……..lemme see if I can dig this out from the itchmo blog cellar. Crap on a stick for not bookmarking it in the first place…..

    FOUND IT!!! Cripes, I’m like a dog with a favorite bone at times. Took some digging but here is where we were discussing Pied Piper & Canidae:

    There you can read:

    Boutique Owner Says:
    April 29th, 2007 at 10:24 am

    “Canidae is made my Pied Piper in Texas. Pied Piper also makes DRY Canine Caviar and Nature’s Variety. The Canidae cans are done by Evangers. Canidae is a very small company, only 18 employees, I think. No stock holders to answer to, no need to cut corners to save a fraction of a penny.

    The fact that they will disclose their manufacturers tells me that they are proud of their choices and have nothing to hide.

    All their ingredients come from the U.S. only. Even their rice is grown down South in the U.S. No glutens, hormones, preservatives, etc.”

    In responding to my above query she replied:

    Boutique Owner Says:
    April 29th, 2007 at 11:02 am

    “I found out the source of manufacturing from my Canidae representative. He has no reason to not be truthful about it. He also told me that Pied Piper manufactures the Canine Caviar dry but their wet is manufactured by American Nutrition. Different state, different company manufacturing it.

    I was completely impressed when I found out that Evangers does their cans. They have a fabulous reputation for running a very clean cannery. Yes, they are Kosher and they have organic capabilities as well. ”

    Maybe I’m too trusting of her (espeically when I say I don’t trust anyone any more - cripes ally @ self), but for some reason, I felt she was being truthful. Again, if I’m wrong, I’ll happily eat my words and the page they’re printed on.

    Anyhoo, there ya go Barb. Hope that helps.

  163. Eric says:

    We have all proven our superior typing skills here at Itchmo. If anyone is looking for high quality typists, they’ve come to the right place.

    Thank you so much for the reassurance! I appreciate it more than you could know.

  164. Anonymous says:

    EVY: There is zero chance of cross contamination with any Kumpi product and for two reasons. Number one, they do a thorough cleaning inbetween production runs. BUT the other reason is that they run formulas the same day that have ‘like’ ingredients in them.

    Nothing personal Evy but I’m not buying it when any petfood producers says this. The rotten apples have spoiled the whole barrel. That’s the way it is. Good luck.

  165. Karen says:


    Thanks for the post.

  166. phdcat says:

    blkcatgal: Always tough. Have you tried a holistic vet that does homeopathy? I’m thinking vaccinosis might be cleared by a good homeopath. Was your cat ever treated with steroids?
    I’d go to holisticat - see what some experiences might have been.

  167. Trudy Jackson says:

    I’m looking for a cat food that is safe, but I have a lot of cats so it has to be a decent price? Anyone know of any? Trudy

  168. Tiffany says:

    I had just taken all 4 cats to the vet Friday April 20th as a precaution because they were eating Nutro Natural and Natural Balance before the recall. They have been on Merrick and Innova Evo since. All their bloodwork came back normal and the vet said they looked healthy. Monday the 23rd one of my cats started vomitting every time she ate. First she would throw up her food, then continue to throw up until her stomach was empty. This continued the whole week and we went to the vet again the next Friday April 27th. He again said she looked healthy, not dehydrated and still very active, but kept her overnight and gave her pepcid and an antibiotic to be sure. She’s been home since the next day and only vomitted a few times since then, and never to the extent of that week.
    When I read that Lorie’s cats were having GI problems but nothing is showing up on their bloodwork it sounded exactly like my own situation. But it does seem strange that only 1 of my 4 cats has been affected. Any thoughts?

  169. Eric says:

    Felidae is around $30 for a 20lb bag, which isn’t too bad. Other than that, I’m not sure. Sportmix makes their own food and it’s really cheap, and hasn’t had any recalls, but it’s also really low quality and full or fillers…at least that’s my understanding. Although right now I think it’s most important to find a food that won’t kill your cats, and focus more on quality when this crisis is straigtened out.

  170. Eric says:

    Are your cats eating dry or wet food? Just curious.

  171. Rachel N. says:

    The SmartPak cross contamination was not within their own Product Line.
    The Weight Management that they voluntarily recalled came back negative, as did all of their other dog foods! The contamination came from another companies dog food that was manufactured in the same plant.

  172. CandyAZ says:

    I have just gotten a notice from Castor & Pollux:
    Castor & Pollux Ultramix Feline Canned Food Recall

    Dear Valued Customer,

    Castor & Pollux is issuing a voluntary recall of the following foods:

    Natural Ultramix Adult Feline Canned Formulas: Chicken, Turkey & Salmon Flavors
    Natural Ultramix Canned Indoor Cat Formula
    We are contacting you because you have ordered one of these items from us. If you have any open or unopened cans left with a best by date before January 2010, please call us at 888-937-6677 and please discontinue feeding it to your pets.

    ITCHMO ADMIN: Yes, those were a part of the Menu Foods expansion notice on Wednesday.

  173. Sandi K says:

    Tiffany, did you have a urinalysis done on your pets? People, please get a urinalysis done! Antech Labs and other vets are saying most of their cases are coming with normal blood levels for creatinine and BUN but its the urinalysis that is showing the problem……

  174. Evy says:

    Anonymous ~

    I don’t blame you for a moment, but I know the protocol at Crosswinds and they know their own need for integrity since it is the backbone of their community. But I hold no feelings against anyone at this point, since it is mind numbing to consider how betrayed the pet food consumer has been. Just please remember that when I was searching out a manufacturer, the first thing in my mind was my own dog and cat, since they were the reason for me beginning a company at all.

    My own FurAngels mean the world to me and that is why I labor at this company - they are just kind enough to share :)

    So, nothing personal taken and I’d rather see people jaded and cautious than the way they have been, too trusting. Put your product line to the test and find your own comfort zone with one if you are making any purchases, even in treats. That’s the way it needs to be!!

  175. Rhonda says:

    Unfortunately we all have to make decisions on who to trust. I almost went the route of making my own dog and cat food. But I could have then exposed them through the use of chicken. We don’t eat beef because of the mad cow issues and the lack of testing for it. I also find it odd that chickens and pigs were fed melamine laced foods which aren’t being recalled because their percentage in our diet is low and the risk level small. If the chickens and pigs were eating it, what were cows eating? Fish is now suspect if it is “farmed” fish because the melamine is known to be added to fish meal/food. I’m willing to trust Evy’s Crosswinds because they’ve gone to the extent to test 10 months of ingredients and have tested clear for melamine. So to me, that means even if for some strange reason there was cross contamination, at least it wouldn’t be with a product that had melamine. In addition, if they have gone to this extent in their testing, it sounds like they take this very seriously and until proven differently I plan to trust that they take their cleaning just as seriously.

  176. Bambi's&Princess'sMom says:

    LorieVA Says:
    May 4th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
    “I(n) lab rats cyauric acid caused lesions in the GI track not kidney damage”

    This concerns me very much because at my tiny (3lb) maltese has been at the vets because of blood in her stool. They ran all the blood tests and say her kidneys & liver are fine, but her stool sample had red & white blood cells in it, indicating inflammation in her intestines. She has been eating Canidae dry chicken & rice, Aunt Jeni’s Chicken raw, Primal Chicken raw, & The Honest Kitchen dehydrated raw for almost a month now. However, she was eating Hill’s Science Diet & Natural Balance prior to the raw. They have her on an IV and I just took her some homecooked ground beef & rice, which she ate with gusto and seemed to be doing very well. They said she should be able to go home tomorrow morning. I too am waiting to hear about teric’s lab test results about Canidae. It upsets me that they won’t tell us who manufatures their food. I at my wits end here!

  177. Tiffany says:

    No, he did a fecal, but I’m pretty sure he didn’t do a urinalysis. Now I’m worried! I’ll call tomorrow morning and talk to him about it.

  178. Bambi's&Princess'sMom says:

    Also, the vet said I’m better off using chicken or turkey for the homemade, but where do I find SAFE chicken???!!!

    Can anyone recommend a safe vitamin supplement (not from China, no China ingredients) to use when you make their food yourself?

  179. xyz says:

    A somewhat different take on things, especially if ‘feed’ production is involved. It’s also possible a company might not want their manuf. known for security reasons.

    Not that who manufactures what is that big of a mystery once you start looking. Still, it’s something that should be addressed. If the FDA wants to create a less than paranoid climate they should back up the manuf. that have state of the art testing procedures and test all ingredients, as well as the finished product, using an independant on site source.

    I wouldn’t see some sort of statement endorsing such by the FDA as a statement of quality, rather for the safety. Perhaps something
    the officials can address.

  180. Eric says:

    Read above for info on Canidae. Dries are by Pied Piper and wets are by Evangers.

  181. Rose says:

    I have been following this disaster with dismayAs even here we get Eukanuba,Hills,and Iams it is having far reaching effects,I have 2 dogs and I have not fed mine any of these, the vetenarian food Advance that I have to feed my dogs comes from Australia but my heart goes out all the people that have lost Pets I for one will never eat Rice again or use anything from China and I think there should be a boycott of goods from China and of all the pet Foods factories until this terrible tradedy is resolved Purely my thoughts Rose

  182. littlechloe says:

    Hi - new poster. Does anyone know who mfgs Nature’s Variety dry? On the pet food list it just says they outsource, but not who.

  183. Bambi's&Princess'sMom says:

    Can you tell me where you found out about the lesions in the GI tract?

  184. Bambi's&Princess'sMom says:

    Thank you. I did read everything on this thread. Were did you find out the Canidae is made by Pied Piper, and where did pet parents find out that Canine Cavier (sp?) is made by American Nutrition? Links please?

  185. Bambi's&Princess'sMom says:

    Sandi K Says:
    May 4th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
    “Tiffany, did you have a urinalysis done on your pets? People, please get a urinalysis done! Antech Labs and other vets are saying most of their cases are coming with normal blood levels for creatinine and BUN but its the urinalysis that is showing the problem……”

    Thank you Sandi K. I’ll call the vets office now and ask them if they did a uninalysis, in not, to please do one right away!

  186. Barb says:

    Since the recall I’ve been feeding Canidae. I noticed on their website that they say they don’t use any wheat gluten or rice gluten, but they don’t say rice protein concentrate. Does anyone know if rice gluten is the same as rice protein?

  187. blkcatgal says:

    phdcat, thanks for the response. So far we have been successful in controlling his condition by feeding the limited ingredient diet. Have not tried steroids yet and not sure I want to go that route because steroids have their own issues. Last time I checked, there wasn’t a holistic vet near me but I look into that again.

  188. Mark says:

    I called Pied Piper (1-800-338-4610) to complain about their “asking” (most likely through a legal threat) for their name to be removed from the Pet Food List site. I told them that I thought this type of behavior was simply unacceptable in a recall environment like this. I informed them that if they did not reverse this, I would no longer use products produced by them. I hope some of you do the same (i.e. call and complain).

  189. Ann H says:

    I just spoke with Fancy Feast rep.

    Their wheat gluten does come from various sources. They do not use rice gluten. Their soy protein is US origin. The Mighty Dog was a Menu recall. Alpo was a recall from their own plant in Nebraska.

    They are working closely with the FDA. They are testing for melamine. I said, Ok, now, there’s a ton of wheat gluten, you mean you test every other bag? She said, no, we test all of it.

    She is going to find out why the Fancy Feast ingredients are not on the website and ask why they are still using menadione in their Fancy Feast Gourmet Gold dry. She’ll get back to me on that. Really nice lady, Terry.

    She did not know about the ASPCA release. I said you have to know they don’t recommend using proteins that are not from the US because of this. She’s going to follow up on it.

    I do feel better, but I had deliberately eliminated FF with wheat gluten in wet varieties when this recall came out in March.

    Now, my Timberwolfe Serengeti dry food is almost gone (1/2 bowl) and the order was delayed (items out of stock) and won’t get it until Monday.

    The 2 things I forgot to ask were 1) corn gluten origin 2) where did they get the wheat gluten in the Alpo.

  190. TC says:

    LorieVA - I just put the whole chicken in the crockpot along with a cup or two of water, and cook on high until done. I remove the finished chicken, and part it out some for us, and some for my dogs. Then I add water to the drippings, egg noodles, carrots, dry shitake mushrooms, & fresh tarragon and keep cooking to make soup (adding back that reserved cooked chicken). I rotate - one time soup, next time drippings to dogs.

    I used to enjoy doing this until I fretted that my chicken might be toxic from tainted feed. Then I realized I am not going to live forever anyway, so I got over it. Kind of:)

    Teric - I will stay tuned to see your testing results. I am gosh awfully glad you are doing this. My dogs are on homecooked, but my cat is relying on Felidae. And I am one of those who has issues with this “confidentiality” crap regarding where Canidae/Felidae is produced. I have lived many years now, and it is almost NEVER a good sign to be in the middle of a crisis like this, and have a company refuse to disclose something so mundane.

  191. Jo says:

    To those of you having problems with vomiting cats…

    I’m not at all claiming to be a cat expert, certainly, but I have extensive experience with cat health having grown up with them and have at least 10 cats — up to 14 — all my adult life. Cats are my one and only passion in life and I have made their care and wellbeing my #1 priority with an extensive cat book library at hand, attending vet seminars and maintaining a very close relationship with my 2 vets. I’m the first to take a cat to the doctor when problems arise and have huge annual vet bills to prove it! : )

    This is why I’d like to mention to folks who have cats that are vomiting after food changes yet show no signs of kidney damage via blood or urine work that there is a good chance the vomiting, nausea and/or inappetance is being caused not by eating tainted food but by the gastric upset that most often results in changing a cat’s diet abruptly.

    It takes time for their digestive systems to adapt to changes in food, particularly when the change includes a change in the type of protein, e.g. chicken to lamb. Generally when we switch foods we should transition from old to new over a 10 day period. But…because of the recall, most all of us were forced to immediately switch to different foods — and some of us frequent switches trying this and that brand until we landed on one or more that the cats liked. Vomiting problems could very well be the result of such abrupt diet changes.

    And just to clarify, I realize that just because a vomiting cat’s blood or urine test comes back negative for kidney issues doesn’t necessarily mean that the food they are eating or was eating was without contaminants. It may take time for kidney or other damage to show up in a blood or urine test. I’m just saying that the vomiting problem could also be caused by the switch in foods.

    Out of my 10 cats that were switched from food to food immediately following the recall announcement, I had 4 of them exhibit such problems. The problems subsided in about 4-5 days after which I cut their food intake way back — in some cases fasted the cat with plenty of fresh water and love for 24-36 hours — then started them back on the new food slowly and in small amounts until their systems adapted.

    Just something to think about, and hopefully — as was my intent with this post — will relieve some fears.

  192. Trudy Jackson says:

    Thanks Eric, trudy

  193. 4lgdfriend says:

    Tiffany: good you had them checked. The vomiting is suspicious to me in the current situation. Not sure what you mean by “before the recall”. Severity of symptoms sometimes dependent on how much they ate. Also, sometimes an abrupt switch will cause digestive upset… That being said,
    My cat had urgent vomiting soon after eating - quit eating altogether - and trouble urinating (from Nutro - corn gluten meal) but still bloodwork showed nothing conclusive. I have read (sorry, forget where) that due to the uncertainty how this might affect pets - future effect they cannot predict . I’m watching mine very closely. I’m afraid that’s not much help. One thing I did do was to buy a petfountain. Agressive hydration was key to recovery for animals that were sickened. Mine is drinking a lot. Something else to watch.

  194. ally says:

    Bambi’s Mom at 4:59 pm–
    “I did read everything on this thread. Were did you find out the Canidae is made by Pied Piper…?”

    Erik tried to tell you to look above at the comments here.
    See my post:

    ally Says:
    May 4th, 2007 at 4:08 pm

  195. phdcat says:

    blkcatgal: No, I’m saying DON’T use steroids - could have been cause. Good you did not. Check the link.

  196. TC says:

    I think the hardest thing for me right now is the absolute certainty that what is safe at this very moment may not be safe the next. That labels are nothing more than “guidelines” and that ingredients not listed are in fact present, and that this kind of thing can happen to otherwise trustworthy companies. Not to mention the crooks that do it deliberately from the get go.

    That I might have a freezer full of chicken fed with contaminated food that I would rather not ingest, but the food protection agencies of the FDA and USDA will not disclose the information I need to make informed choices. That I read an article in my local Oregon agricultural paper that detailed the fight the USDA put up when certain companies wished to test their beef for BSE to certify it free of such things, and the USDA wanted them stopped from doing so (as I recall they lost that round). Lunacy. Esp. for an agency that wishes to be entrusted with the sole responsibility for determining such things, but can’t tell me where 3 million tainted chickens ended up besides our stomaches.

  197. robin says:

    Easy solution for Canidae/Felidae, just put it on your web-site who makes your stuff, do you or the manufacturer purchase the ingredients, do other products outside of yours go through the machines and if yes, how are they cleaned, and who monitors that procedure? Testing procedures etc. If they have nothing to hide then it’s easy for them. Until I see it up on their web-site for the world to see, mine are going to all raw. And I really don’t care if Sunloff from the FDA thinks homemade is a bad idea, his track record on getting a handle on this has sickened and killed many pets. If my protein is a tad low, I’m not going to grind the kitchen counter-top up and toss it in. I’ve had it with the confusion and all the little ‘proprietary info’ games this entire industry seems to be playing.

  198. Deb says:

    I miss something here in the cross contamination theory. I have posted this before….I have a mfg’ing background (non foods). I was thinking more about contamination dust, not cleaning the machiney….things I know that would create an issue. Somehow I doubt this is the case. Maybe I missed the postings on the cause of the cross? Don’t know.

    Now I don’t think it was cross contaminated at all. Based on my background, I have always thought like products came out of the same plant. The same raw mtl’s we used for our product…..went into the customers (unless it was L/O). I think this is the case with a lot of plants.

    From what I remember of these pouch products….all the different lines has the same flavors. I am willing to bet…..all those products are exactly the same…..just the packaging is different. Same thing with canned products……they do a run…can it….and only put the label on it when the product is purchased by the customer. The slop inside is the same any the label changes???

    I think the reason why it is taking so long for Menu to fess up is because they have really sloppy accounting and operational procedures.

    We found out this morning…the Mr QA may have a vision problem….and didn’t see what was wrong with the wheat glob….visuals are done it QA. I had a visual of the QA person…with a Seeing Eye Dog… He/she really wasn’t doing a good job that day or they were sleeping. It seems like there may be an issue with plant operational procedures and low level accounting (I am sure they do a real good job on the P&L)…..the place sounds like a real mess. I honestly believe….they do not know what runs ‘the stuff’ was used it….because it was not recorded…..this is why the recalls are being dragged out.

    I think what we need to do… over throw the Mgmt of Menu and take it over!!!!!! I think we could do a much better job!!!!!! I am claiming the most comfortable chair and the office with the best view.

  199. Anonymous says:

    Fancy Feast: Of Primary Concern: wheat gluten, corn gluten meal, soy protein concentrate

    Also Of Concern: soybean meal, soy flour, menadione, dyes, animal digest, by-products.

    We have nothing but the companies “word” on source of ingredients.
    How much do you trust what companies have been saying?????

  200. Anne says:


    I hope my cats take to KumpiKat like yours did. Don’t worry, my two guys never go hungry!! With new food I try a bit of the new and the old and if they don’t like the new I give them the old and try again the next day. The only new food they took to right away was Purina Pro Plan, but that was tossed pretty quickly when I realized it had wheat gluten! My male cat is much pickier than his sister. He gives me that sad look and just walks away from any food he doesn’t like. His sister usually will at least try it, he just smells it and walks away. So I hope the KumpiKat works because Evy seems like a great person and I hope to find someone to trust in all this mess.

  201. Eric says:

    I guess Teric still hasn’t got his results?

  202. Barbara says:

    I don’t put chicken in the crock pot, but I put in the oven and it makes a nice broth. I have one in now. Yesterday I received food from healthy prt net. They liked the can food yesterday but today they won’t eat it so I gave them the NB Tuna & Shrimp like they were eating but now they don’t want that either. I don’t know what to do now. They were eating NB Venison & Green Pea can but I was afraid of that too and the pet shop sent it back for the same reason. My one started to have blood in his stool so I had it checked out and everything was alright, but what would cause this. I’m so upset as everyone else. I don’t know what to feed them now. Any ideas for tonight?

  203. love gsdogs says:

    In answer to someone’s earlier post inquiring if anyone had received any reimbursement from any company involved in this mess, just wanted to share the refusal I received from Iams…

    Our German Shepherd Buddy had his regular yearly check up on 2-26-07 including bloodwork and got a clean bill of health..He ate a few ounces of Iams chicken cuts w/gravy everyday on top of his Iams dry food (receipt for cans dated 2-20-07) and was admitted to the emergency hospital on 3-7-07 and spent the next 5 days fighting for his life..The extreme and repeated vomiting caused him to swallow some of his own vomit and he ended up with aspiration pneumonia and a collapsed lung..

    We are very lucky that he has a great love of life - it’s all about playing ball and going for rides…He is slowly recovering but we are now at about $6,000 and still counting…repeated trips to vet, antibiotics, chest x-rays and who knows what else is ahead?

    Iams, after careful and thorough and of course, fair and balanced investigation, notified us in a phone call that it was a mere coincidence and they would not consider any reimbursement but have a nice day!!!! I did request a letter stating the details of their findings but it has yet to arrive…I was not in the least tempted by a 4 lb bag of their dogfood and ashamed that I had been negligent about not researching what I was feeding my dogs…

    We are a Kumpi fan now and it is much loved..Evy has been wonderful about answering my questions and they have been many…The transition to Kumpi only took a few days and so far, I have also recommended it to several others and they are satisfied as well…

    I would also be interested in hearing about other people’s attempts at reimbursement…why do I speculate that we will not be reading many succesful stories?

    Sorry also to be so long winded but have been reading these posts for weeks and weeks and have been so afraid and frustrated and angry that it had to come out..

  204. 4lgdfriend says:

    Glad to hear this. Since you have all the books I’m sure you know that a lot of cat experts disagree about fasting a cat–let alone for 36 hrs. due to Hepatic lipidosis. Although Frazier promotes this.
    I do wonder about it since surely in the wild a cat might occasionally go a day without food under duress. So, my approach is moderation even in moderation. I have a few books too ;-) but on my across the board reading, I would never do this for 36 hrs.

  205. Eric says:

    I agree, 36 hours seems like too long to let a cat go without eating.

  206. Deb says:

    Lovegsdog………..OMG that is horrible!!!! I don’t even know what to say.
    I hope your dog is ok. They are the bottom of the barrel…..only worried about an insurance increase…..nothing is coming out of their pocket….it’s a huge insurance claim!!! I am so annoyed right now!!! I wonder if those dirtbags are going to be sending you coupons and a form letter…the thank you for being a loyal customer, one!!!! It’s a good thing we can’t curse on here…..every other word would have been the F word.

  207. Lorie says:


    is right my 2 kitties have the GI issues from something prior to Kumpi. It is either a new symptom form FF in March or from 2 other canned food I was trying befor Kumpi. My girls are eating their Kumpi right now. Sorry if I caused any confusion regarding Kumpi.

  208. susanUnPC says:

    Lou Dobbs is covering “dangerous Chinese imports” at 3pm PT/6pm ET.

  209. SmileOnADog says:

    Hey Barb,

    I switched my dogs to Canidae around March 18th and have had no problems. My lanky rescue dogs and their puppies are even, finally, gaining some good weight. With the rescues being outside all day, still they’re soft, shiny and hydrated.

    My 16 yr. old cat didn’t like the Felidae dry, but is in love with KumpiKat (dry) and Felidae wet. He lost a tooth some months ago, and lost weight before I realized what the problem was. He never would eat wet, but now inhales the Felidae wet. And the KumpiKat comes in very small kibbles, which he can easily eat with the teeth he has left.

    He’s happy with that, because dry kibble is his first love. And he’s regaining the weight, which is a big relief, because, at first, before the recall, we’d thought he was perhaps in the beginning stage of CRF (like our other CRF cat euthanized in May of last year). In my experience with renal failure, the weight loss is the first big, visible sign. Especially loss of muscle tissue in the legs.

    On Felidae and KumpiKat, our cat is also shedding less, has no more flaky, dry skin (yes, it’s hell-hot in AZ) and he’s got more energy.

    I’d be very diappointed if Teric’s (thank you, Teric!) tests of Canidae, Felidae and KumpiKat were returned with any negative results. Even if the foods came back with less nutritional value than attested on the label, (although hopefully not), I’d still feed them to my animals for now, rather than risk poisoning them inadvertantly with something else.


    Barb Says:

    May 4th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
    Thanks to all for giving me a little piece of mind re canidae. I have fed canidae to all my dogs for the last 9 years. Of course i added the wet recalled garbage for many years thinking it was the best food out there.

  210. Lorie says:


    My littelst Geisha is a pure breed Persian ( oh Crap Topaz Just ate both bowls of Kumpi whata piggy) anyway Geisha being purebreed and only being 9lbs had teh more server symtoms the vomiting lack of back leg use, drooling etc… which first clued me in not hard to miss. On the othr hand Topaz who is 16 lbs and feral barn rescue cat only had the lip licking not wanting to eat leave me alone symptos which I might never of noticed if Geisha would not have had teh full blown episodes. Through all this Topaz has only vomited one time Geisha how ever through up everytime she ate. Hope this helps

  211. Jo says:

    4lgdfriend & Eric,
    Surely understand your concerns with a 36 hour fast. It does sound like a long time & I would never do it unless in a crisis situation like we were. I did this with one of the cats — the one having the most problem (diarrhea, vomiting) with the diet change — only after checking with my vets & after reading Dr. Pitcairn’s new book (pg 111) in which he talks about the benefits of fasting when switching to a new diet. He even talked of a longer fast in certain situations, although I would never go past 36 — and even that worried me a bit.

  212. Ruth says:

    This is for love gsdogs: that is such a coincidence that your pet got sick around the same time my pet dog got sick too. She ate IAM’s mini chunks. She didn’t make it. It was sudden and in 2 1/2 days she died. She was a little Chi/terrier mix.
    IAM’s was very indigant and condescending about the whole incident.

  213. love gsdogs says:

    Thank you Deb for your having the endurance to read my post..I tend to go on and on..especially when it comes to love of our furry friends…

    and yes, there are just not enough expletives to describe how I feel about all of the greedy and evil people involved in all of this…My adult daughters used to have substitute swear words when they were early teens..”Smerf” was their sustitute of choice as in “this really is smerfed up..”

    It certainly applies in instances like this where we willingly adhere to website etiquette but need a way to express our deep despair and anger…

    The discussion is very interesting at forums as well and for all interested in Kumpi, it is a must read and follow…

    I am not religious, but I am hoping the Universe will not let Kumpi be smerfed up as well…

  214. SmileOnADog says:


    How heartbreaking. So sorry to hear you lost your dog.


  215. love gsdogs says:

    for Ruth..

    I am so sorry you lost your dog…I have tears in my eyes right now…I know your heartache..enough to lose a dog to age etc but to have someone basically murder our pets for $$$$ even compunds the whole mess..

    If anyone else has an experience with Iams, would appreciate reading about it..negative or postive…The have put some great customer service people in charge of caringly giving you the brush…can’t imagine the karma there for all involved…

  216. susanUnPC says:

    Please check out this diary, which is about COOL (country of origin labeling), and by a commissioner who is trying to enact COOL:

    You need to register at Daily Kos to add a comment or question, but it’s very easy to do so.

    This is a REAL solution that will help all of us, for human as well as pet food.

  217. Sophie says:

    Does anyone know anything about Pet Guard or Azmira canned dog food? Good or bad? Thank you!!

  218. Cathi says:

    love gsdogs….
    I called NB after 200.00 in vet bills.They acted like nothing was wrong with their product when I finally got through to them on the phone. They took my name and address and said they’ll look into it. We’ll see what happens, but I’m not holding my breath. I’ve e-mailed them several times and have received no answer from them. I’ve put my cat on Fedilae and now I’m very worried about that food. The cat wouldn’t touch it for the first few days. I’ve been told it’s not good for your pet to have his food changed so often. I just can’t handle this anymore. I’m sick.

  219. Jenny says:

    I think the risk for Hepatic lipidosis is even worse if the cat is overweight. I have two cats that are currently on diets (I used the recall as an excuse to get their weight under control). One had got all the way up to 18.4 lbs - partially due to some high calorie but bland food we gave him temporarily to resolve some issues after major dental work. Fasting would be pretty risky for him and his brother.

    I have a third cat that has IBD and pancreatitis. He is taking pepcid AC and pred to control his condition. I have found if our big cat has temporary issues with vomiting that is not related to furballs, that pepcid AC is also very helpful for him - he took it for about 3 weeks after his dental work. We never really did figure out if he was just having issues with his teeth, had rare/temporary case of pancreatitis related to the dental work, or was just suffering from SAD :)

    I’m not sure if Pepcid AC would assist with switching foods, though. We have done like Jo and changed foods over a long period of time.

  220. Deb says:


    I am a very peaceful, yoga doing person……this is making me want to hurt someone.

    Years ago my dog passed from kidney failure, she was 12, my vet (out of Cornell) said it had to do with the protein levels in the feed. I was feeding her Purina Products at the time (I didn’t know any better). When I got my new puppies…..this was a concern for me….I had a detailed chat with my vet. We went with Nurto (bad results…my one puppy had HUGE hotspots due to an allergy to the product) I switched the to Solid Gold. I was adviced to take them off of puppy at 4 months…due to the protein. I still use Solid Gold (am a bit concerned because of Diamond)…all of my dogs go off puppy at 3-4 months. Just to do anything.

    Normally I don’t use any of the products (that have been called….so far). However, I got lazy one day and picked up a bag of WM brand ‘cookies’. Left them in my car a few days…..forgot about them…..took the out and fed my dogs a few. The next Freaking day…..they were called. The bag DID NOT have a lot number. I nearly lost my mind (if you read my post I have mfg’ering background)….I was ready explode…..the recall and no lot number??? I was going to take them back…bounce ‘em people’s heads….I would be getting rid of the evidence…..really that $5.00 is not that important to me. Its been a few weeks… dogs are ok…..but I was scared to death…..all of them were doing to have issues.

    It was horrible enough…..I really feel for those who are suffering. There is no more trust…..this hole this is being kept out of the main stream media…..then you hear from someone first hand what was done to them… makes me what to scream.

  221. 4lgdfriend says:

    Very sorry to hear that Ruth. I know how it feels to lose one’s companion.
    Our hearts go out to you.

  222. Sarah says:


    I also am in the same predicament as you are, and trying to find out what others are using as a substitute for Natural Balance Venison and pea dry. Personally, I don’t trust NB anymore and I am not AND would not feed my cat any canned food from any company. I would not support NB and feed canned venison and pea, I don’t trust them and I never will again. I dont reward companies with my money, but then again I dont’ trust any pet food companies now either. I realise for allergic pets as I also have, there aren’t many alternatives, and it is these sensitive guys and gals that are suffering the most with food changes.

    I have read that alot of people are using raw venison diets, I am not going to go that route. I am looking into finding organic venison and cooking it myself - wish me luck finding it.

    Nature’s Variety has dry venison diet and a canned venison diet. As far as I know, they have not had any products recalled although menu foods makes their canned food, so I would steer clear of canned foods from them. Personally, I have not tried them. I can’t feed the dry becasue there is lamb in it and mine can’t eat lamb. The canned has only venison meat but canned is off limits for me during this crisis.

    Hills and Royal Canin make a venison and pea dry and canned food. These companies both had recalls of some product lines, but not the venison diets. Surprisingly Royal Canin venison and pea is preserved naturally, Hills is preserved with ethoxyquin (?) which feeding that or preserved with BHT or BHA is slowing poisoning our pets with chemicals anyway. With much regret, mine is eating Hills V & P. I don’t want him on it, I don’t trust this company but he needs to eat something til I find a suitable replacement. I may switch him to Royal Canin becuase it is preserved more naturally - but I hate both of these companies too and don’t feel good supporting them or trusting them either.

    Have you looked into rabbit diets or other exotic meats? Personally I haven’t tried it yet but might pursue that avenue - although poor little bunnies :(

    As for steroids, my cat was on prednisone and other meds during his food allergies, along with other medications and it is never advisable to go that route, especially when the allergies are directed related to the chemicals and other poisons in the food anyway that their little bodies are reacting to - try to go as natural as possible and the symptoms should all go away.

    It is very worrysome times now - have you considered buying organic meat and cooking it yourself?

    I still want to know why the hell Natural Balance put rice protein concentrate in a grain free diet for allergic pets?

    I want to thank this wonderful site, it is a valuable source of information.

  223. love gsdogs says:

    Deb..yes, I did read your post..I have done the same thing with my remaining not going to return them to the store for refund as that would mean relinquishing my evidence…have had many various fantasies about throwing them through large plate glass windows of the corporations involved but to date, they just sit in a far corner of the pantry as a reminder to me of what we have been through and what is yet to come…

    Buddy just came to nag me to go outside and throw the ball…I promised myself when he survived that I would spend more quality with everyone I love everyday….take nothing for granted.. Our play time is short these days as his endurance is greatly affected but at least the desire is there…

    He is a great teacher for all of us…

  224. Cathi says:

    I just called falidae and they refused to tell me who produces their food. I can not believe this. All the research I did on cat food after NB was recalled and I had to pick this company!! She told me they were under strict orders NOT to reveal who makes their product. I told her I was going to return my cat food and buy something different and that I was going to post to all of you to do the same. I’m telling you something is fishy here and I’m so scared. I think I might puke. I’m calling Evy.

  225. 4lgdfriend says:

    Overall, the stories of various cats conditions is very distressing to me.
    Especially with the interplay of foul putrid ratcrap foods and medications thrown in for problems cats have after eating the foul putrid ratcrap foods (no longer such a ‘generalization’ i’m sure you all agree). And yes, we all thought the fould putrid ratcrap food was “balanced for all life stages’ or perhaps it was even “prescription” . Anyone still that naieve? Which came first the chicken or the egg? The food, the illnesses and the treatments - these things all interact. But the stories of improved health and cessation of ilnesses when cats are fed species appropriate, high quality ingredient, highly assimilable food (especially raw) are enough to make the most vehement vegatarian sob. Please people - do your animal friends a favor - go read. I’m so tired of hearing of the sicknesses these animals suffer because of the gd advertising and prescribing. TGIF.

  226. LovingMyPets says:


    I have my allergic kitty on ground RAW venison, found in a 12 oz package at Whole Foods Market frozen meat section.

    I mix in a supplement from and she’s been doing very well on it! You might be able to cook the venison first and then add the supplements too . . . but the cooking really deteriorates a lot of the nutrients.

    Now I’m worried about the supplements . . . are they from freakin China too???? I couldn’t get a hold of them today at all. *sigh*

  227. Sarah says:

    re: Cathi @ May 4th, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    Natural Balance is getting a very bad reputation because it is leaving people out in the cold, whereby other companies are supposedly reimbursing vet bills automatically. Does anyone have any vet reimbursement stories to share - good or bad? To give us more insight into these companies.

    BTW in order to get a refund from NB, requires signing a release form that no lawyer would ever say to sign. There are several pages but the main release claim form, in order to be reimbursed, you have to sign to “hereby release, acquit, and FOREVER discharge Natural Balance Pet Foods Inc. and its subsidiaries, parent company, affiliates, shareholders, officers, directors, employees, agents, sales reps, distributors, and retailers, and Wilbur Ellis Company of and from any and all actions, cuaases of actions, claims, demands, damages, costs, loss of services, expenses, and compensation, on account of, or in any way growing out of, any and all known and unknown personal injuriers and property damage resulting from or to result from the possible exposure of my pet to toxic substances in any NAtural Balance product.

    Blah blah blah - there are several other paragraphs and pages to fill out but basically it’s about signing away all your rights FOREVER and signing your soul to the NB devil.

  228. LovingMyPets says:


    One more thing . . . I’ve heard that rabbits are imported from China. Be careful!!!

  229. Moosemarcy says:

    Cathi, I am so upset when I read your post about Canidae/Felidae not telling you who made their product. I am feeding my dogs Canidae and Nature’s Variety raw. Also home cooking and Evangers canned thrown in. And like you, I researched forever trying to find something I trusted in. Please let me know if you hear anything new on this. I am also scared.

  230. littlechloe says:

    Trying again….. does anyone know who mfgs Nature’s Variety dry food? I bought a bag of the Raw Instinct today but don’t want to open it until I know who their mfg is.

  231. DaveyD says:

    Pied Piper in Texas makes the Canidae dry
    Evangers in Illionios makes the wet

  232. Evy says:

    Things make you go hmmmmm.

    Canine Caviar is made by a private plant in TX.

    So is Canidae.

    Pied Piper Pet Foods has a very interesting home page in lite of this!

    Makes me wonder why Canidae isn’t saying who makes their food. Why wouldn’t they tell Cathi who makes it? I have not called out an individual company until now, but why veil that information?

  233. TC says:

    My feedback on the Felidae - my cat wasn’t much interested in the dry food. Now she will eat it, but doesn’t dive into it, just eats what she has to and moves on. The only good news is that she has quit all the frequent vomiting she had on her previous food, her ear allegies appear almost gone (I was still mixing in some of her old dry, so that wasn’t smart, at first), her coat is a better. She get fairly frisky at times, and water consumption is back at normal. Got her years ago from a shelter, and we guesstimate she is at least 15 or 16. At the least.

    So that is good re the Felidae dry. Their “strict” refusals to disclose information requested by their consumers, which is not top secret stuff, is getting beyond annoying. I just bought another 20# bag, which may be returned. I am now researching for new cat foods again, in case their inexplicable behavior continues. There is a CRISIS still. There is no TRUST yet, unless it is earned - my new motto. They aren’t trying to earn it at this point.

    I am looking into California Natural products as one on the short list. And will continue homecooking for the dogs until their last days. I just about killed them on Nutro dry, which wasn’t even a recalled product; however, all bad symptoms stopped when I discontinued the food. I need no other proof, nor to be a good dumb consumer waiting for the nice people to tell me what my dogs already told me by their illness.

  234. ally says:

    Evy - yep.
    I already mentioned this above.

  235. JanC says:

    Robin: I just loved your comment about grinding up your countertop & adding that to your food to increase the protein…..I needed a good laugh.

    Lots of kitty people on here today…..I have a dog (who thankfully has so far made it through this)…..but I have a friend with a cat & I can’t seem to get through to her. Her cat is on RC S/O…..pretty sure that’s what she said. She called me a few weeks ago & was telling me about black flecks in the food…..I told her to bring it back to the vet. She did & he said it was fine… said something about burnt bits……to which I shouted BS! Still feeding it to her cat & now her cat is throwing up clear liquid. I showed her pics of tainted wheat gluten with the little bits of gray & black crap in it & told her this is what she’s feeding her cat. Does anyone know anything about this? Am I overreacting or is this tainted prescription food???????

    So much good info here, my thanks to all of you for entertainment & helping me to learn more & more about what’s good & what isn’t. Right now, I don’t trust any of these companies so my dog gets a smidgeon of holistic dry & the rest is home cooked. I always think today’s safe food is tomorrow’s recall so I don’t dare give her more than a few pieces of dry.

  236. Deb says:

    Lovegsdogs…….I package my ‘evidence’ in those air tight sealed bags and stuck them in the freezer……long term storage. Just in case, something comes up about long term effects……I have the package and for once I kept the rcpt. I think people made a BIG mistake……returning the unopened packages. My mom……she has fed Iams and those pouches for years….swears by it. So far she has been lucky.

    When my dog passed. I vowed to spend as much time with them as possible…..they give so much and they are here for such a short time.

  237. love gsdogs says:

    for cathi…

    I also had switched to NB after getting tired of large amounts of homecooking for 2 German Sheps..was making huge pots of chicken, rice, lentils etc etc..and dogs were still hungry all of the time..then I sent away to and bought bunches of books about making your own dog food..then I decided to try Kumpi and give a company just one last chance mainly due to all of the posts I had read by Evy and not one person ever saying Kumpi was responsible for their sick or dead dog..

    When the Kumpi arrived, I took the Natural Balance (not even the flavor that was officially recalled) back to Petco and they refunded on the spot…I will never do business with their company again or any other company that has not been upfront about all of this…My dogs love the Kumpi and no, I am not generally a bandwagon person but when something works, I am surely not going to knock it just to be an “individual” and I have to face these dogs everyday!!! the $6000 already spend on dog medical bills would have bought a lot of quality dogfood…Hindsight 20/20…

    In our world today, when, how and where I spend my hardnearned dollars
    is one of the few ways I can feel like I am doing something proactive…

  238. TC says:

    I was just elsewhere, on Itchmo I believe, and saw a post by bonnie? who had spoken to John at Canidae. Who was completely forthcoming regarding where the product is made. What I am to make of all this contradictory nonsense then?

    Canidae/Felidae - attention please - put on your website who makes your food, or in the alternative, explain why this needs to remain top secret. Not feel good words, but why in precise terms.

  239. Kim says:

    Mark - Great Idea to call Pied Piper, and I love what you said.

  240. ally says:

    Evy says:
    “I have not called out an individual company until now, but why veil that information?”

    I’m hoping it’s for contractual reasons as both myself and Danielle stated above. IIRC, didn’t you post some very complimentary things about Canidae awhile back? Something about their food being very good & meeting some of their reps at a tradeshow & they seemed like good people who really seemed to care?

    Anyhoo, I hope Canidae does have a good reason. Maybe they need to be informed of what’s being said on the blogs? I switched to Canidae after a friend recommended them. She’s been feeding her almost 1 yr old female lab she’s training for the Guide Dogs of America (GDA) Canidae her entire life. Her dog is beyond healthy, with more energy than I can shake a stick at. My friend told me Canidae is what the GDA endorses.

    For the sake of her dog, mine, the GDA’s & anyone else using it, hopefully it will remain safe. As well as Evangers wet dog food which I’ve used for well over a year with no problems whatsoever. If not, I’m still learning home cooking as an alternative.

  241. love gsdogs says:

    Everyone used to poke fun at me for saving almost all of my receipts but now I am even more vigilant about making sure that I have documentation on everything I buy..even clipping bar codes etc off dog food bags..forgot to mention before that I had also tried to switch to Pet Promise..was taken in by the slick brochure with Dr Andrew Weil endorsement etc…then learned about their Purina connection and sent them back my purchase receipts etc for a refund as instructed on their packaging…no reply to date…Purina has been predictably low key on all of this..guessing with all of those dogfood factories in China, time to stay under the radar…

  242. ally says:

    TC -I saw that comment re: the Canidae phone convo as well.

    I think the best thing to do is each of us call them for ourselves, note the date & time & who we spoke with. I should have thought to do so sooner, but as I’ve already posted, my dogs are doing fine since beginning on their Canidae. Same energy, appetite, shiny coat, etc. The only thing that freaked me out a bit was how small the Canidae kibble is. Looks more like kitty kibble if you ask me, lol.

  243. Cathi says:

    If Pied Piper makes Canine Caviar and makes Felidae as well, what’s to say there isn’t cross contamination there too??? Something is wrong here!! It says on the Pied Piper’s web site that it’s 100% wheat glutton and Rice Protein conc. free. Ha? They make Canine caviar? And it got recalled? Everyone should return all thier Felidae.

  244. Deb says:

    This has been up on MSNBC for a while

    These people give sleazy a new meaning.

  245. 5CatMom says:

    littlechloe Says,

    This info from

    “Nature’s Variety (verified by CEO 3/27/07)

    Brands include Nature’s Variety, Nature’s Variety Prairie, and Nature’s Variety Raw Instinct.
    Canned foods made by Menu Foods but not involved in the recall.
    Dry foods are outsourced, but not by Menu Foods.
    Frozen and freeze-dried raw foods are made in house.
    All grains used are of US origin, except flax seed, which they get from Canada.
    No wheat gluten is used in their products, or in the plant that manufactures their dry foods.
    There is no rice protein concentrate used in any of our Nature’s Variety diets (kibble, cans, or raw). Furthermore, rice protein concentrate is NOT used anywhere within the kibble manufacturing facility. (from website 4/18/07)”

    Also, I have a note that their dry foods are made in Lincoln, NE.

  246. Cathi says:

    Felidae 1-800-398-1600

  247. TC says:

    If Canidae’s or Pied Piper’s refusal is contractual, then they have the means to easily solve it.

    A contract is just an agreement amongst these two parties. Parties to a contract can absolutely get together and change things. That is a fact.

    If they won’t alter it, then one of them must have their reasons. And that really really isn’t a good sign. That is why at this point, I am foolish to continue entertaining their product as a serious contender for my pet food dollars.

  248. Kim says:

    Cathi - Pied Piper makes SOME of Canine Caviar’s food - NOT all of it. American Nutrition made the Canine Caviar food that was recalled.

    So, while Pied Piper are acting like jerks, they have in fact had NO food recalled (yet).

  249. TC says:

    Ally - that is different for the dog food to be that small!

    I am wrestling with either calling them or sending an email request for them to step up to the plate, and do the right thing. And put it on their website, so that we all have it straight from them.

    But of course, it isn’t good that we are having to strong arm a company into doing the right thing, huh?

    I am glad to hear that your dogs are doing well on the Canidae. Periodically I give the cat some canned salmon along with the Felidae and just keep hoping for the best. Well, and checking for new recalls….

  250. love gsdogs says:

    We certainly have every reason to be outraged at the Chinese for “spiking” their grains with cheap leftover lethal filler..But I am even more outraged at the way the companies that we all trusted and have spent countless dollars with have focused on covering up their involvements and basically saying one thing and doing class corporate butt covering..

    Hard to imagine trusting any corporate anything anymore…wonder when we gave up truth for marketing?

  251. Joan says:

    NV Frozen and freeze-dried raw foods are made in house This does not answer the question of where their animal comes from - only that it is made in house.

    Where do these animals used in their product come from? I asked NV about where their chicken used in their raw instinct kibble came from - NO Answer to my question - that was a month ago. Also NO answer for the rabbit used in their Raw Rabbit Food.

    So where does their meat source for their products come from? I have returned the RI kibble and will also return the raw rabbit.

  252. Deb says:

    Gsd…wow you save all your rcpts….good work! It is almost getting to the point…where we all have save recpts, labels and samples at in-home QA lab!!!! This is out of control.

  253. erin says:

    this cross contamination just doesn’t make sense. If that is what it was then why are there 2 and 3 different foods in the same plant being recalled ? You would think it would be just the batch after the contaminated one. After that the residue should’t even be there. I believe that they tried to replace a more expensive ingr. with a cheap one and everyone that did this is going to jump on the cross contamination band wagon to make them not look so bad for waiting so long on their recalls.

  254. Eric says:

    So I guess Teric never got his results.

  255. Cathi says:

    I’ve been talking to Evy at Kumpi Kat. This lady is awesome. She will explain her product to you and answer all your questions. You won’t find that at any of these other companies. Between my two phone calls, she spent almost an hour with me. I’m done with Felidae. Thanks Evy!!

  256. blkcatgal says:

    Sarah, thanks for the info. I’m not thrilled about feeding my cat the canned NB. I will check into some other options. I am feeding him the Royal Canin dry venison and peas. But I am a little leary about RC too even though I did call them and asked about the food, verifying that they never added RPC to it and the pea protein was purchased in the USA and not from China. Interestingly, I’ve talked with several people at NB after their recall….all were very nice and helpful. Granted, I wasn’t asking for reimbursement for anything. Might have been a different story if I was.

  257. Eric says:

    Evy is awesome, I will agree. If only people like her were the norm instead of the exception in this industry, then we likely wouldn’t be in the middle of this crisis.

  258. Evy says:

    Kim ~

    Thanks for clarifying that about the Canine Caviar and American Nutrition vs. the Pied Piper folks. I was wondering about that.

    I cannot think of any good reason for any company to not disclose who manufactures their food. All of this ‘confidentiality’ makes no sense to me at all. I am proud of who makes my food and my manufacturer had no problem whatsoever with me calling out their name specifically. Heck, I’ll even draw attention to their foible about their ‘website under construction’ which it has been for years!! lol I called and talked to them today and asked them to get it up and running by next week or I am going to look like a dolt :) They are very much like I am - small and working hard to make sure things go right with a strong sense of control. They are testing samples, still trying to run their company and service their pet food company customers, and actually are kind enough to take my grief and said they’ll try to get something done, up and running for their website.

    AND just to let anyone know, awhile back a popular dog journal was frustrated that no pet food manufacturer would let them tour their facility. My snail mail and emails must have gotten lost, since Crosswind Petfood is happy to give folks a tour through their facility. I know I’ve been there several times and really enjoy the town and the people there. Very heartland and the food is TOO good at every restaurant you go to :)

    I like Canidae/Felidae products and I just don’t understand why the veil of not saying where their food is made. I hope they realize that trust is needing to be earned in this industry big time and if you check out you see SO many companys who were forthcoming with the information.

    Warm hugs to FurAngels :)

  259. Lorie says:


    I have the link in and email that Katie sent me at work. It was as pDF with studies of Cyuaric acid. It says it didn’t kill the rats just cause the lesions. Look for me on Monday I will post it for you.

  260. littlechloe says:

    I found on another forum that Pied Piper makes Nature’s Variety dry food. I haven’t been following the Pied Piper discussion too closely. Are they bad? Or just being secretive? This is really starting to p!$$ me off. I have spent this entire week researching who makes what, where, with what, how, etc etc etc. Today I ordered a grinder to start making my own raw.

    As long as Pied Piper is considered “clean” I’ll open the bag of Raw Instinct. Can anyone warn me otherwise?

  261. JollyCat says:

    littlechloe, any company that would ask to be removed from the manufacturers over at would draw suspicion from me

  262. robert says:

    to Katie your post at 2:30 reg net symptoms. The was having that prob.

  263. Zoe says:

    I got a response on May 2nd from Nature’s Variety about ingredients. It took about a week. Jessica said all their ingredients come from the United States except the flaxseed comes from Canada and the rabbit from China. I had the raw frozen rabbit in my freezer and I threw it out after getting that email.

  264. Lorie says:

    I went today and told people at my Pottery Place where I was taking knitting lessons why I haven’t been around, The girl I know the best was totally taken back about my cats story. She was like what about Eukanuba Dry for Dogs. I said I haven’t heard anything bad except there wet was recalled and that was enough for me, I also gave here the ITCHMO website link and told her abou the bees, pigs, chicken etc that no one hears about . Anyway this other lady chimed in and said my dogs eat food you can’t buy in a grocery store so they are fine, I said oh what is it she said NB I was like oh do you know they have had 2 seperate recalls, and taht I would call something you can by at PETCO at this point a safe brand and she said we check the list every week and ours is not on it. I left at that point before I started a fight.

  265. Karen says:

    Thanks for the Teric update!
    I rushed home from work and got online. I was afraid I missed him and was hunting posts.

  266. Zoe says:


    Where did order your meat grinder. I’ve been wanting one but don’t know what kind to get.

  267. Lorie says:

    BTW thanks for all teh chicken cooking tips. My cats are not satisfied with just dry they will ding dong me to death for wet esp right before bed. They are getting bored with their options. But at least they are recovering being finicky and pesty at this point is a Godsend. : ) Love my girls. I pray every night and everyday that this all goes away and no one else suffers damage from this mess. But I esp pray for redemption. Like a plaque locust embarking on all the house of all the people that caused this and esp the ones who still are hiding and not telling the truth. PURINA FF for one. Just ranting again sorry since I live so close to DC I would try the Erin Brochovich thing but my luck it wouldn’t turn out like the movie and my A$$ would end up in jail

  268. Lorie From Canada says:

    You know I have been reading everyones comments and I still say if you want a grain free food that you can trust please read about ORIJEN, it’s safe and it will do so much good for your dog you will be amazed. No worries about anything that will harm your dog today to next week, it will not be recalled. I have no part in this company, I am just like you and want the best I can for my dogs, it is also sold for cats.

  269. CathyA says:

    Zoe - Northern Tools grinder has a pretty good reputation. There may be some info on grinders at

  270. Sarah says:

    re: LovingMyPets

    Thank you for the info re: raw diets. My vet is completely against it, but I am researching it more so I can make an educated decision for the best interest of my sweet boy. Rabbits from China? Is it true Nature’s Variety rabbit comes from China???? This is ridiculous. If it comes from China it’s probably not even RABBIT - if you know what I mean. That’s disgusting.

    Although I did not have any intention of buying or cooking poor little bunny rabbits. I couldn’t do it. I am vegan btw, I don’t eat animals or animal products so it’s a personal struggle for me to even think about buying meat and cooking it. I know, I know …before anyone bashes me and says what is the difference between buying pet food that has dead animals in it, I am consciously aware of that all the time but obviously since cats are carnivores, I have no choice and if I have to buy and cook meat for him, I will do whatever it takes and is in his best interest. I will probably throw up though and cry while doing it.

    My advice to anyone who is home cooking - please buy organic only, from a reputable organic store and farm, that is certified and stamped because there are stores that are renowned for putting fake labels saying things are organic when they aren’t - another conspiracy.

  271. littlechloe says:

    Zoe - I hardly eat meat so a meat grinder was not on my radar at all. Somewhere in my web crawlings re: raw I ran across a recommendation for this:
    It’s not hideously expensive and folks say they can grind chicken bones for raw food. It seems to have decent power. Everything’s an experiment these days.

    I’ve had one of my dogs on Natural Balance raw and have been really happy - it completely cleared up his chronic intestinal issues - but I’m mad at them because they haven’t been really forthcoming about this recall stuff. Information is confusing and vague and they haven’t updated their website for a week. They can win me back if they want to but in the meantime I’ve gone elsewhere. I bought Primal raw today for Sammy and the Nature’s Variety Raw Instinct for my other dog who demands kibble. I actually have nothing bad to say about NB other than their handling of this, but maybe I’ll find that making my own raw works out really well and it will have been a good thing in the end. HTH!

  272. Danielle says:

    I read on that Orijen is expanding their market in the northeast. Their food looks very good, but I’m concerned though by the high protein content in their food. Even the senior formula is around 42%. My dogs are used to 21-22%. Anyone know if that much protein is harmful to senior dogs? When I first started researching and asked the vet, she said anywhere from 18-24 would be adequate. I have to go back on Monday for outpatient surgery so I’ll ask her then, but was just wondering if anyone here had any research on the subject.

  273. DukenCC says:

    TC…when you are crockpotting do you put the noodles in raw or cooked???
    Allie…When I used Nutro’s Lamb (dry) I had a 125+ Neo and a 50+ liver Dal, when the Neo passed a few years ago I adopted a 25- Terrier mix, but still kept feeding the same. Poor Lil Terrier hada heck of time eating those big chunks so I found Nutro Lamb little bites and the Lil Terrier went to town!!!
    FYI: I know longer feed Nutro since the beginning of this recall, wet or dry, I don’t trust em as far as I can throw em.
    Luck to All.

  274. Zoe says:

    Thanks for the info about meat grinders. I’ll order from Northern Tools.
    I’m feeding my 2 cats Newman’s Own dry and Nature’s Variety frozen organic chicken. Tomorrow I’m going shopping for organic meat to start making my own cat food.

  275. Pit Bull Lover says:

    TC, which Nutro food were you feeding? I used to feed my dog Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice dry food and didn’t connect her tummy upset, lethargy and reluctance to eat w/ the food. Because of Nutro’s Menu connection, I switched to Canidae Lamb & Rice dry food, and the dog loves her food and seems to feel much better. I worry, though, and hope there are no nasty suprises with Canidae.

  276. littlechloe says:

    Danielle - this link is to the National Academies of Science downloadable brochures on the nutritional requirements for dogs and cats:
    (click on dog or cat at the bottom). They list the requirements for protein and every nutrient (vitamins and minerals). On the dog info it says that older dogs actually need more protein than younger ones. I found the information useful.

  277. Sarah says:

    re: blkcatgal

    re: purchased in the USA and not from China

    For the matter all these companies can say all their veg. proteins were purchased in the USA - after arriving from CHINA! They need to show us proof it was grown in USA. Companies are saying 100% USA made, but they fail to mention it’s with imported products. I asked Hills to show me proof that they tested for melamine and the V & P cat diet was free of melamine but I was told that their statement on their website was proof enough. Granted any company can show us a phony report and we wouldn’t know the difference anyway.

    Yes the NB staff I deal with were very courteous, even called me several times follow up to see how my baby was. They were very gratious in approving my request for reimbursement for vet fees. I was told I was being sent a form to sign which just stated that I was getting a refund for x amount. Then I get 6 pages to sign away my rights “FOREVER” which I would need to sign in order to get my refund. Now who the hell is going to be stupid enough to sign something like that? Compared to other companies that give refunds, my vet told me NB is the worst company. I am curious to know if other companies are asking people to sign a similar release form in order to get reimbursements?

    Considering that NB has lost a lot of customers, vets are disgusted with them and several stores I shop at have even returned all NB products (even ones that aren’t on recall) and claim to never stock them again. Interestingly enough, one natural pet store has only had one company’s products recalled and it was NB - so they aren’t dealing with them again. Being pr*cks (excuse my language) NB are just digger a deeper hole for themselves and they only have themselves to blame. I am ashamed that I supported them for so long and was foolish enough to think they were a responsible company.

    To Lori from Canada - the difficulty alot of us are in, is that there are very few Venison grain free diets for cats on the market. Orijen does not sell an allergy formula or venison diet. So for those like me, whose baby is allergic to everything under the sun, our options are limited on a good day, even less now. It’s a bad situation.

  278. Joan says:

    Zoe, Thank you!

    This makes me sick! Reba is eating Rad Raw now. I took away the NV raw rabbit after someone posted that this might come from China.

    This is a money grab - rabbit from China

  279. Leslie k says:

    I discovered a problem w/purina 1 sensitive systems today.I had gotten rid of all old bags of dog food but 1 when the recalls started. The bag of purina expired 12/2007 so I thought it was safe. I had 3 bags of wellness in the food bins,but didn’t feel confident in them because they were not willing to name manufacturers. Went out today & got feline Cal natural & Innova evo dog. I mixed it into the wellness to avoid tummy problems from abrupt switch. I started to add a scoop of the purina & saw something small,hard & white stuck to it & loose in the bag.
    When I called them they said not to use any of the food ! They offered a free coupon. Also sending a prepaid envelope to send them a sample. They say they have no other complaints. When I said it contaminated all my dry food & I would not buy purina until I was sure there are no more recalls they offered more coupons. When I said I would have it privately tested they offered a refund for all the food. Maybe they are just doing the right hting but I am suspicious.
    They also said I should disinfect the food bins!
    Has anyone else had this ? Also if you have any pur 1 sens DON’T USE IT. I have been checking itchmo,petconnection & the petfoodlist twice a day & still had a problem! I thought I was being safe.
    I am posting this on all 3 sites & in the forum.

  280. Zoe says:


    My first thought after receiving that response from NV about the rabbit from China, was that it could be cat meat or dog meat. How do they know? It totally grossed me out. I sent an email telling them thanks for responding and that the the rabbit was going right into the trash. Why do they need to get rabbit from China anyway? I don’t trust any of them anymore.

  281. ally says:

    Kim -

    In case you stop back by this thread, thanks very much from me as well for clarifying about Pied Piper. Really appreciate your ongoing help, info & support.

  282. Lorie From Canada says:


    I understand what you are saying, please read the link i post for you it will help you out some.

    Is too much protein harmful?
    Old wives tales about dry dog foods high in protein causing kidney disease run rampant both on and off the internet and many people deprive their dogs of what they crave most for fear of damaging their health.

    Another very informative site on dry dog food

  283. Mary Sue says:

    This is not to upset anyone who uses Evanger’s, but what is on the labels of 5 varieties of their canned foods that I have now is not the same as what is in the cans. Check the website ingredients against the can labels and you will see a difference. I spoke with someone there because I was concerned about the menadione and was told that they don’t use that anymore. They stopped putting it any of their foods in August 2006, but they are using up their old labels. They emailed me the letter explaining that. There are some other differences in ingredients, too. I’m trying not to get to freaked out about it and I would like to trust them 100%, but this seems rather sloppy. I then emailed them when I checked the ingredients on the cans to the ones on the website so I could get an explanation of the differences. That was about a week ago and I haven’t heard anything back yet. I’m sure they’re overwhelmed, but my trust is waning.

  284. Ruth says:

    Thanks everyone for your support. I can only guess how all of you feel about the loss of your pets too. And how hard its been trying to find safe food.
    I have lost a family dog pet due to age but this has really gotten to me in such a way that I just can’t get over. My pet was a rescue dog but we just seemed to just click from day one. She was more than just a pet. My husband and I loved this little dog so much. Nights are the hardest for me. She would check on me every night just one more time before she went to sleep on her blankets at the foot of the bed. She had such a ritual of stretching and positioning her blankets just right then went to sleep.
    Now that is all gone.

    Thanks again…..

  285. Rhonda says:

    Well, I have to laugh about “purchased in the USA”! Being well aware of the fact that if you don’t ask the same question in every possible way you might never know the truth, while on my search for canned cat food I always start by asking if all of their ingredients are USA grown. All proudly announce, oh yes, we buy all of our ingredients in the USA (with the exception of lamb and venison). I then roll up my sleeves as say I don’t care where you buy them, I want to know where they are raised and or grown! You’d be surprised how many stutter and say “um, I’m just sure its all from the USA, they must be”. Those get crossed off my list!

  286. TC says:

    DukenCC - I put in “raw” so they can absorb the juices while they cook. But watch them, because they always get done faster than I think they should:)

    Pit Bull Lover - mine were on Nutro Chicken, Oatmeal and Rice for several years, but only in the last 6 months pre-recall did all the bad things start and then continue to escalate - vomiting, itching, licking constantly, bad coats, unbelievable water intake, reluctant to eat the kibble and the last straw was a set of cluster seizures. I didn’t know what to do, and I was scared. I started home cooking that day, and then heard about the wet recall within days if not hours.

    All the mentioned issues ended, even though I threw them on homecooked cold turkey (which should have upset their tummies). Neither dog has vomited even once since (it had become daily frothy stuff with the Nutro), and I still can remember how frequently I used to fill their water bowl (I even bought an oversized one). The vet couldn’t find anything wrong, and no, didn’t even suggest it could be the food. Their blood tests are fine, so what was in the food? I am thankful it didn’t rise to the level of causing permanent harm or killing them. But there is something in the bags that I fed my dogs that caused this. Bad batch? Or two or three? Or given that you had the some of the same issues with Nutro, likely something in the dry kibble that upset our dogs systems. I have since seen many other reports online, similar stuff re Nutro.

    That is cool that yours are doing great on Canidae; I hope it and Felidae are safe choices. I admit I am jaded now.

  287. Rhonda says:

    Mary Sue! Gosh, should I stop feeding Evangers? I’ve been through so many canned foods at this point I have no earthly idea what I should try next! At a $1.10 per 5.5 oz can this stuff better be healthy! Honestly my food bill for 3 cats has already gone from $60.00 per month to almost $150 per month.

    Does anyone know of other canned foods that are all natural, all USA, holistic and canned by the brand company rather than an outsider?

  288. Lorie says:


    What a sweet way to remember your little dog, I am so sorry for your lose. These people are evil, stealing all our sweet babies away not to mention our own normal routine lives. Since that fateful day on March 23rd when my turst was broken for life thanks to FF insisting on their product still being safe. Now I pray I caught my error in judgement in time and dread every time I fill their food bowl that it could be their last

  289. Lorie From Canada says:

    Ruth, I feel for you and all the others who have recently lost a pet I did aswell. It was 6 mth today that I lost my beautiful Golden Retriever just a baby not yet 3 yrs old. My Blaze had epilepsy he was so special to me I am having a hard time letting go of him.
    Blaze will always live on, his memory is with many still as he is the subject of a Lawsuit in Ont Canada you can read about it here
    We are waiting for trial date as per trial did not offer any settlement.

    Losing a pet is bad enough but losing a pet because of things that we can control makes it even worse, this food recall should of never happen.

  290. 9 cats left says:

    I lost one cat 3 weeks ago. someone else has bloody urine, I don’t know who; I have been cooking recipes from vets but they do not like the food. Buying Paul Neuman and Wellness because they assured me while they do use Menu plant, everything is done under strict supervision. 3 weeks ago I wrote and called the FDA but received no reply. NO one was addressing the cross contamination factor. My granddaughter is highly allergic and under no circumstances could she eat anything made on shared equipment. Are they just waking up?

    And why isn’t anyone mentioning the fact that the CFO of Menu Foods sold 4000 shares of his stock for $89,000. on February 26, 3 weeks before the recall. His name is Mark Weins. Spread the word.

  291. teric says:

    Sorry all that I’m late,

    Just got home. Post soon to follow. Will be a long one and will take some time. Just hang on for a sec…

  292. Mary Sue says:


    I’m using the Evanger’s in spite of my reluctance. I’ve been quite happy with them until I found out about this labeling business. My 7 year old ShihTzu has been eating their vegetarian dinner for a couple of years due to allergies to all meats. She also gets people food and about 10 pieces of PetGuard vegetarian kibble which I don’t trust now because they won’t speak to anyone about who makes their food. It’s an old bag, and when it’s gone I’m going to make my own kibble. I’m cooking for the 16 year old Shih Tzu who I recently got from a hoarding situation. She can and will eat anything so she isn’t a concern. The cats are a different story. I just switched to Felidae which they’ll eat, but aren’t thrilled with. Now with all of this secrecy with Canidae and Felidae I’m not sure I made the right choice for dry food. They’re both 12 and all this changing foods isn’t good. I supplement it with 3 of the Evanger’s canned and I’m holding my breath. They eat very little canned, but these are some they will at least pick at. They won’t eat fresh cooked chicken or salmon - yet. I keep trying. Another one that seems okay is by Nature Organics except for the fact that they are made by Blue Seal which has had some bad press, but right now I can’t remember what it was. Merrick sounds pretty safe, but mine don’t like it. Like you, I’ve spent a fortune trying everything that sounds safe in order to find something they like. They love canned tuna, but that’s just for an occasional treat.

  293. Pit Bull Lover says:

    Yay!!! The mysterious Inspector Teric returns!

  294. Eric says:

    Okay Teric, we’re all waiting very anxiously here…

  295. TC says:

    Thanks Teric for remembering and look forward to whatever you may have found out.

  296. Rhonda says:

    Mary Sue, thanks for getting back. My babies refused Merrick, hands down. I guess at this point I’ll keep it up with Evanger’s unless I hear something that makes me run. When all of this first hit, I actually boiled chicken, reduced the broth, turned it into gravy, then made my “own” canned food. They refused that as well, yet the vet wants them eating canned in addition to dry. I will continue watching posts so please let me know if your concerns grow. Thanks so much!

  297. Karen says:

    Thanks Teric!

  298. Dogmom says:

    I feel like we are all holding our breath; waiting for Teric’s report. I know that I am. I feed canidae to my dogs and felidae to my cats; both wet and dry. Teric, you are on my “good thoughts list”!

  299. Eric says:

    I tell you, Teric is torturing us!

  300. Karen says:

    Must be a giant post.

  301. Eric says:

    Did Teric get kidnapped?

  302. Karen says:

    Possibly. Or he decided to watch Real Time……

  303. TC says:

    Maybe teric is over where I was while waiting - Pet Connection.

    Reading about how 20 million chickens may be tainted. No processing; instead, birds to be held while USDA attempts risk assessment, might know results as early as Monday. I am speechless.

    That has to win for the biggest Friday after 5 bad news to date.

  304. Eric says:

    That’s on of the top stories here on Itchmo too.

  305. Barb, GSD MOM says:

    Teric, and all…lets pray about canidae. :o( The dogs are pulling at my pant leg ready to eat their canidae and meat loaf. No evangers for me now. I have two cans left…not going to happen. Here I thought they are safe because they are 100% meat. I will stick to home cooking and hopefully canidae. Although I lost two german shepherds at the age of ONLY 9. ONe in Dec and one last month. I have two sheps & one ci mix left. Come on canidae…..I do believe the wet food I fed (natural balance, nutro) played a role in their deaths. To think I THOUGHT I was doing the right thing adding wet. Now it will be what my husband and I eat.
    Thanks for all the good helpful information.


  306. Barb, GSD MOM says:

    Hold teric for me…going to feed my dogs real quick………..

  307. Pit Bull Lover says:

    Real Time w/…
    Sanjay Gupta talks about poisoned food program coming up next week.

  308. Eric says:

    One hour later, and Teric is still leaving us hanging. Either Teric disappeared or is writing the longest post ever…

  309. Lee says:

    Maybe the FDA kidnapped him from speaking lol

  310. Molly says:

    elizabeth, re: “A friend of mine and fellow cat lover has a theory that cats are actually aliens from another planet sent here many years ago to blend in and report back on us. That when they stare off into space with tail switching they are sending and receiving messages from the “mother ship” and that they are finicky eaters because they have just never adjusted to the food offerings here on planet earth.”

    Thank you so much for the fantastic can’t breathe crying laugh. I really needed that. :)

  311. teric says:

    Hi All,

    Bless your hearts. I am so sorry for the late post. I received the results @ 6:00pm and I am just now at home & able to deliver the news.

    The results on the bags/products that I submitted in for testing of Kumpi, KumpiKat, Canidae Dry, Felidae Dry are as follows:

    Melamine Non-Detected / Aminopterin Non-Detected :-)

    The other tests for Amilorine, Amiloride & Cyanuric Acid will be completed Monday.

    My biggest concern is the Melamine and they were not detected in any of the products I submitted.

    I do hope that these results give many of you a bit of relief. But, please understand I can not in anyway say that because of my test, everything is safe & free of toxins due to the different batches produced. I know what I have is safe and I will continue to test each bag of food prior to feeding & I will post the results.

    Today I read many concerns about Canidae. I too have the same concerns. Because of this, I personally have chosen to feed Kumpi products/foods from now on. My kids love it and Nancy (many of you may remember Nancy) has not thrown up since she began eating the KumpiKat. IMO,..That says something to me. I just ordered the 20 lb bags of Kumpi & KumpiKat

    I am so happy to report this outcome and my kids are eating well tonight. :-)

    Now, my next adventure is to find safe treats.

    May God Bless all of us and our little ones.

  312. Eric says:

    Thank you so much again. I will look forward to hearing from you regarding the rest of results next week.

  313. teric says:

    My gosh, I feel really bad now. I’m just reading some of your posts waiting for me. I had puppy zoom zoom hour along with my kitten who had just been spayed Wednesday. They have been on my tail since I got home.

    I forgot to mention: My kitten who has been eating KumpiKat for 5 months,..her blood work checked out just fine prior to surgery. That toois a very good sign IMO. :-)

  314. TC says:

    thanks Eric - absolutely right on that. I missed it here, because I left a browser window open to this page, waiting for teric’s reply and hadn’t checked the rest of Itchmo again for awhile.

  315. Barb, GSD MOM says:

    OMG. Thanks goodness…that is a bit of relief as my dogs just woofed down their dinner of canidae, meatloaf, potatoes & carrots. But, like you said not every bag is the same. Hmm…Kumpi? I have never heard of that dog food before. I will check out the ingredients.

    Thanks sooo much for all the input re canidae. Not sure what I am going to do at this point.

  316. TC says:

    Must have posted same time as Teric. Again, many many thanks for the update.

    True, test results are only a snapshot in time, not a guarantee of future safety. But it is one more thing to consider, and since there is quite an escalating food crisis going on, well, more knowledge is always better than less.

    I really really thank you for posting what you found. Will check in for further results.

  317. Mary Sue says:


    Thanks so much for your efforts on behalf of all of these hungry dogs and cats and worried humans. Were the Canidae and Felidae tested the regular ones that contain lamb, the senior, or the chicken and rice varieties?

  318. Barb, GSD MOM says:

    As far as treats…I tried making my own with chicken livers, flour, eggs, milk, garlic powder, chicken broth…..of course the dogs sucked them down…but a couple of days later they had mold of them. Maybe I should of refridgerated them. lol I do feed Innova health bars…my dogs LOVE them!

    Thanks again Teric for the information.

  319. Cathi says:

    Thank you so much!!

  320. Karen says:


    Thank you for all you went through to provide your results to all of us. Yes, it is a snapshot but, it makes me feel better!

  321. teric says:

    Mary Sue,

    Those that I had tested from the Canidae products were:

    Canine - Lamb & Rice
    Canine - All Life Stage
    Felidae - Cat & Kitten (mine wouldnt eat it)

  322. Jenny Barkley says:

    Thank you. Your the best. I will sleep a little better tonight.

    Itchmo I will sign up tomarrow tonight I sleep. You are the best too.

  323. Helen says:

    Trudy, the higher quality foods that might raise your eyebrows in price don’t turn out to be as much more expensive as they look. If the protein is better, meaning meat, not grain based, the pets don’t need to eat as much. So if the good stuff costs twice as much, but they only eat half as much to get what they need, you pay the same for the food as if you had given the cheaper stuff. I am having this experience with my cat’s new food. Read the package for feeding amounts. I hope you are able to feed a food you feel comfortable with, and I hope it turns out to cost less than you think at first look.

  324. teric says:

    Pit Bull Lover Says:

    May 4th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
    Yay!!! The mysterious Inspector Teric returns!

    I am just looking through the posts & this made me laugh.
    Again, I am so sorry for making you all wait so long. I will not do this to you Monday (let’s say Tuesday). I’ll be at work with no puppy zoom zoom hour to distract me. I got home late tonight and that does not go over well with my spoiled ones ignoring them while I’m on the computer.

  325. TC says:

    Ruth - I just read your posts and the one about the nightly routine of your little dog just made me cry.

    I didn’t lose a pet yet in this recall; but I have experienced loss of my pets for other reasons over the years. It is the worst thing and am very sorry for your loss. take care.

  326. Anonymous says:

    littlechloe: The issue with Pied Piper and the NV, Canidae/Felidae SO FAR seems to be one of secrecy rather than food. I have still not read any accusations of any of these foods making pets ill, though I may have missed something.

  327. Helen says:

    TC, it is not just a bad batch or two or three with the Nutro dry. It is the dry cat food too. And my cat had the same symptoms except no seizures, though the Nutro was only part of her diet. She recovered beautifully and became unexpectedly kitten-like after I took away the Nutro. She had eaten that with no problems for years and suddenly didn’t like it, didn’t eat much of it, threw it out of the bowl, and got sick from what she did eat. I have exchanged this story with several people who also fed dry Nutro to both cats and dogs with similar problems. Nutro completely denies all this and they insist the food is perfectly safe, ha ha. Well it is NOT safe in my humble opinion. Hope your dogs are making a complete recovery.

  328. Bridget says:

    teric, thank you so much! Just out of curiosity I was wondering what the date on the bag of Felidae was?


  329. robin says:


    Many thanks for doing the testing and providing the results. After the recall mess hit I had switched my crew to the Canidae and Felidae dry from the Wellness dry for half their diets as they eat the other half raw. I feel better tonight but still would like Canidae and Felidae to provide more info on web-site. Mine have done fine on the Canidae and Felidae, but thankfully they easily can go to all raw and I think that’s the best way for me to go for the time being. It’s just real hard to trust any of them right now. Again, thank you very much.

  330. love gsdogs says:

    teric…thank you from all of us..I may actually rest easier about the future of the planet…Kumpi and Evy were my last attempt at trusting any commercial suppliers, large or small…

    Am glad that the trust is intact so far…If I missed reading about how you were going to have smaples tested, I apologize..Can you give some specifics on how and where and how much?

  331. Anonymous says:

    Has anyone tried treat cookies made by “BlueDogBakery” they make a scrumptious Molassas/peanutbutter cookie and a varity pack- they are all natural and the company is saying their companys “BlueDog” cookies are safe .I feed mine these and have ever since they came on the market they can be reached at the following:
    toll free-1-888-749-7229
    fax-206-666-3835 they are made in Seattle,Washinton and while I can’t vouch for ANY company but I am trusting my furrie kids with this product I am exhusted trying to keep up with all the recalls my 15 yr. old Emily is a picky puss and my 9 mth old puppy ZADA has to be hand fed unless its fruit or veggies ,cheese or treats– thank heavens my 4 yr old ZEUS is NOT picky –but with this horrible pet food crisis is on going it is hard to fed him and not be paranoid so far my group are symptom free -but I still am crazy with worry what will be the next food to be a death sentence!

    See what’s free at

  332. Val says:

    Leslie K,
    Funny you should mention this! I received a sample bag of their Selects today in the mail! I was curious, so I opened the bag. There are small hard off white things stuck to it and in the bag. I quit feeding that brand to my dogs a while ago since they started to refuse to eat it and I had several that were vomiting after eating it. All has been fine since I switched. I did email the company to see if they changed formula’s and got a sappy non answer reply of course. Told them I was not feeding it anymore too. The best used by date on the sample is March 2008.

    “I started to add a scoop of the purina & saw something small,hard & white stuck to it & loose in the bag.
    When I called them they said not to use any of the food ! “

  333. Val says:

    Thank you Teric for your results! I’m very happy to hear this as I am using some of those that you tested.
    I’m getting good results and yes it took the cats a few days of picking at the dry, but they eat mostly raw/ fresh anyway.

  334. Stephan says:

    Re Canidae and melamine - In the next 6mos or so, the dust will settle, and we will have new food safety issues to worry about. Because it was an intentionally added contaminant, we have some control over it long term.

    In contrast - if you are buying from a plant that makes both animal feeds AND pet foods, you always, always have a concern regarding cross contamination with drugs that are growth promotants / antibiotics in poultry/ruminants, but KILL dogs fast.

    So, once you are finished with obsessing about melamine - next questions to ask Canidae regarding long term food safety are as follows:

    - does your manufacturer make medicated agricultural products - specifically feeds with monensin sodium or tylosin phosphate - in the same facility as your pet foods?
    - how can you guarantee us that there will be no “cross contamination” from these feeds
    - do they use a separate mixer / auger system for pet foods / ag feeds

    Back in the “olden days” before there were so many facilities dedicated strictly to the manufacture of pet foods - monensin kills were fairly common, less common now due to specialization. But, it is still a quick moneymaker for a feed company to drop in an extruder and some pet food dryers etc. and start making pet food - they already have all of the other required machinery (bins, augers, mixers etc.)

    The good news is that their nutritionists are going to be top notch, because formulating a good ag feed is way more demanding than a pet feed (if specs are off, growth/production suffers - producer lets you know in a big hurry since it means less money in their pocket. Dogs can live for a long time on crappy food - I would bet many of the pet food private label companies making fancy “holistic” diets don’t even have nutritionists on staff).

    That is why if someone wants to buy cheap dog food - and lots and lots of people do - I always recommend against buying ones made by feed mills.

    Re: Cross contamination - Although I do certianly think some of it is “don’t ask, don’t tell” ingredient additions (some may have read my musings on the mysteriously high carbohydrate beaver diets) but for the latest rash of Menu recalls - rework addition is my guess. Every time you make food, there is waste. Waste gets put into big bins sorted by general purpose, and blended back in to other runs. Spreads ingredients around fast.

  335. Moosemarcy says:

    What exactly is the problem with Evangers? From what I am gathering from these posts is that they had an ingredient that should have not been there and they took it out in 2006. Is this accurate? Was it listed in the ingredients? I am somewhat confused. Do you all feel this is okay food to feed my dogs?

  336. Helen says:


    Evangers said they stopped using menidione (sp?) in 2006. It is still on some of their labels, because like every other company ,they are using up all the labels that were already printed (to avoid buying new ones). This has been done in the pet food industry because there is no “truth in labeling” law or regulation. Under normal circumstances, you could look at a website for updated ingredients and compare to your package/can. Companies are changing their websites on a daily basis though.

    What I know about Evangers is they claim all US ingredients, make their own canned food, and many people have recommended the food. I won’t recommend anything, but I have been feeding some Evangers to my cat.

    Some folks have complained of pets vomiting after eating Evangers, but I have not heard anything about renal failure from it. My cat has not vomited from it, but she is stubborn about changing wet foods and has picked at it.
    I hope that helps.

  337. TC says:

    Helen - I am not yet convinced that the seizure was due to the dog food, but the rest of the symptoms were. You were far smarter than me in taking your kitten off the food immediately. The vet and us made excuses for this off behavior that we simply should not have done. And funny you mention it - my dogs started tossing pieces of kibble outside of the bowl. I wonder if they were picking and choosing more or less bad pieces to eat.

    Glad to hear your kitten got past this okay! My two dogs are (knock on wood) still symptom free and have the energy of youngsters (they do 1-2+ mile walks daily as only hunting dogs do, running, and they are both 12). Some after effect may catch up with them, but I am cherishing each extra day we have.

  338. TC says:

    Stephan - thanks for those points, food for thought.

  339. Lorie says:


    Thaks for the update on KumpiKAT also i am very happy to say my little one Geisha is on my lap it only took 1 week of no commercial food at all and KumpiKat for me to get my girl back. Its been a long time March 23rd is when all my problems with the 2 started. BTW no pepcid either since Tuesday morning. Makes me wonder if they weren’t exposed to somehting else betwn 3/23 and 4/27 after I stopped the FF. Who knows. If they wee it was either Felidae dry which Topaz tried to eat twice and vomitted both times and GEisha had loose stools from which I blamed on the KELP but KELP is in KumpiKat and I have not had any issues with it. The other brands in that time frame were Merrick and Solid Gold Tuna. Mostly Merrick because I stopped using SG once I found out it came from Thailand.

  340. e wem says:

    I nominate teric for head of the FDA. teric thank you a million for sharing your info

    I saw the Pied Piper web site. They do not use wheat gluten or rice protein concentrate? Sneaky talk. Why not just say: we use ONLY whole brown rice, or whole white rice, or wheat flour etc? I care more about what you use than what you don’t use. I care more about what country it came from.

    I guess they don’t want to be pinned down. Slippery eels these pet food makers. What is in your food? It’s a secret.

    teric thanks for sharing the link to the place that did your testing. Such places are hard to find.

    Hattie - I saw your post above. When I took my sick cats off recalled IAMs and Nutro maxcat, the first meal was fast food chicken. The second meal was ground up bloody steak.

    In two days they were acting differently, doing things they hadn’t done in months, like stretching, yawning, serious grooming. Now they are growing better fur. The massive shedding has stopped. I ran a comb thru my Himi’s fur and it went through like silk for the first time ever no knots, and no giant clump of Himi wool.

    without itchmo I wouldn’t have a clue about all the pet foods, or pet owner experiences. This is helping me to save my babies. Bless you all

  341. Moosemarcy says:

    Helen, thanks for the quick response. I think I will still continue with the Evangers. I am so glad I have this site to go to through all of this. It has been such a Godsend. Thank you all.

  342. Cathi says:

    e wem….

    I was concerned as well about the Pied Piper web site. They make Canine caviar and that was recalled. I was worried about Falidae because Pied Piper makes their foods too. I was told that it’s made in a different plant than Canine Caviar, but you would think the ingredients would come from the same supplier. I called Falidae yesterday and they refused to give me any information on where their food is made. This whole mess is very worrisome. I ordered Kumpi Kat yesterday and will be taking my cat off fedilae. Fedalie isn’t being up front about who makes their foods yet we all know it’s Pied Piper. My cat was on NB and got very sick, so I need to find something I can trust and a company that will be up front. How crazy. I feel so bad for the pets who have died and their owners. Anyway….good luck to you.

  343. SandyC says:

    About the methionine…I notice that all the foods which I would consider “quality”…Wysong, Felidae, Innova and I think Life’s Abundance line (but I’m not sure on that one) have DL-methionine in them. Is it not the quantity of the substance and not the substance itself. The website for Wysong mentions it as a substance to prevent urinary crystals.

    Without going into all the particulars, I have six cats, two of which went into severe renal failure in January. After several thousand dollars in vet bills and sleepless nights, we are doing well now. I attribute the sub q fluid supplementation to saving my furry 16 year old surviving. We were feeding Iams and Eukanuba recalled food.

    I am at my wit’s end. I researched forever for a low phosphorous food due to the compromised kidney function and came up with Felidae, placed a large order on PetFood Direct (we live in a rural town in Mississippi and there is no where to buy quality food) and now I read this about Canidae.

    Just shoot me. I can’t feed a raw meat diet because it is too high in protein. I really don’t know what to do.

  344. SandyC says:

    One more note…Kumpi Kat has the DL-methionine in it too.

  345. Evy says:


    Menadione is the ingredient at question, not DL-Methionine.

    Menadione or any added vit K source is not in the AAFCO manual in their protocol for nutrient profiles - and only in a cat food if fish is 25% or more of the diet.

    I used to get the two ingredients confused all the time myself :)

    AND I’ve been amazed at how many have it on their labels when a call to your Dept of Ag about it will yield the response that it should not even appear on a dog food label at all - and again, only in cat foods with 25% fish or more. The labeling aspect of pet foods is out of control.

    Ok, I won’t digress lol.

    But MENADIONE is the culprit ingredient.

  346. love gsdogs says:

    Would someone please tell me where the post is that had the details of Teric’s choice of labs to have food tested? I have scrolled up and down and over and back and am just not seeing this info and would appreciate more details…

    I am also interested in safe treats as well… would appreciate input..right now I am using Organic shredded wheat cereal from Trader Joe’s..don’t have much faith in anything anymore and our household has been through too much to have another meltdown…

    C’mon Evy, please make some treats as well????? Pretty please!!!!

  347. SandyC says:

    Thank you so much. That is the best news that I have heard all day…and yesterday too. I can’t believe that I confused the two but they sure do look alike, don’t they?

    Evy, since you may still be here, do you know the phosphorous level of Kumpi Kat? It may be what I try next!

  348. Evy says:

    first this:

    DL-Methionine is an essential amino acid that aids in the body’s detoxification process. Diets deficient in this essential amino acid may result in a destructive breakdown and metabolism of protein. Signs of deficiency include apathy, edema, lethargy, liver damage, muscle and/or fat loss, weakness and marked slowed growth in children. Methionine is critical in regulating the availability of folic acid, which is important especially during pregnancy. It is used to treat depression, alcoholism, liver disease, and reduce allergies and asthma. This essential amino acid has been used to reduce the toxic effects of radiation and it improves healing from surgery and other wounds. There are no known cautions or interactions associated with taking methionine.

    Amino acids promote the production of various neurotransmitters and enzymes critically needed in brain metabolism. Amino acids allow smooth, balanced cognition and fluid transition from thought to disciplined action. Aid in the reduction of stress, frustration and cognitive overload.

    Amino acids are the building blocks of protein in the body, they are essential for the synthesis of structural protein, enzymes and some hormones and neurotransmitters. Amino acids also affect exercise metabolisms.

    There are 20 different amino acids that are needed by the body to create the various proteins needed for body growth and repair. Of these 20, 11 are created by the body and the remaining nine, which are called “essential amino acids,” cannot be produced by the body. The nine essential amino acids therefore must come from diet. Histidine, isoleucine, leucine, lysine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine are essential amino acids. The nonessential amino acids are arginine, alanine, asparagine, aspartic acid, carntitine, cysteine, glutamine, glutamic acid, glycine, proline, serine, and tyrosine. All 20 amino acids are necessary for health.

    Below are some of the major functions amino acids are involved in;
    _ They empower vitamins and minerals to do their specific jobs correctly.
    _ Some amino acids can pass through the blood-brain barrier which exists to maintain the health of the brain, the brain’s chemistry and its processes.
    _ Act as neurotransmitters or precursors; some are needed to send and receive messages.
    _ Aid in communication with nerve cells in other parts of the body.

  349. LovingMyPets says:


    There are some homemade recipes! This website offers Specialty diets for pets with heart, KIDNEY, urinary tract, diabetes and obesity problems; as well as for intestinal problems and allergic skin disease in dogs cats and other pets.

  350. Evy says:

    SandyC ~

    We have a very comprehensive nutrient analysis of the cat food at :) I need to give my nutritionist a rest, God bless his heart, he has answered so many questions for me in the last month. He not only knows the science of nutrition, he knows the chemisty behind the ingredients. I trust him, the products he has formulated have shown extreme performance and I would just ask people to try and trust a poor gal who has been working to service customers (yes the phone rings into my home) and I will be spending (happily!) a good chunk of my day printing FedEx labels and prepping product for shipment on Monday. I am a working president lol and I have just a rudimentary knowledge of what it took my nutritionist decades to continue to learn. It is an evolving field and it is his absolute passion!

    Treats - I won’t brand my name just to brand it :) There are good options available for treats and I am working with the gal who makes the treats that are shipped with Kumpi Dog Food to the Metro Transit Authority in NYC. She has been slammed with business as well and we’re trying to figure out some way to potentially allow people to purchase Kumpi dog food and her treats at the same time. I will need to have a fridge installed at the warehouse if we are going to do that, since she uses zero preservatives in her treats. They keep well when refrigerated though and we are trying to figure out if it might just be better for her to set up a website where folks can order directly from her.

    I just can’t get caught up in the mire that many companys have, by being successful at doing one thing extremely well and then diluting proficiency by extending beyond that. Personally, I feel that if I start doing treats it will take away from what I have always perceived the consumer needs most and that are pet foods with integrity. I am concerned that if I take my eyes off of that at all it could potentially compromise what I started out to do in the first place - and I can’t risk that :)

    Also, treats are easy to make in your kitchen at home :)

    And on a lighter note, my personal assistant (God bless her heart through all this, since we are only a total of three employee company, myself included) took a bag of Deb’s cookies home for herself and one for her sister. Her sister was baking home made peanut butter cookies for her kids the other day and her son accidently opened the dog cookie bag at first, looked at them and said, “Mom, these cookies look different from the last batch” and everyone laughed, since the doggy cookies do look like a people cookie. The cool thing is, he could have safely eaten them lol.

    Warmly warm hugs to FurAngels :)

    also, teric’s comments are on this blog, you just have to scroll slowly :)

  351. Evy says:

    Hey LovingMyPets ~

    Thanks for that url. I will run that by my nutritionist when he has a chance to get some rest :) One concern is seeing that Dr. Hines recommends the use of Centrum, which isn’t the best vitamin supplement out there - so many much better. And it is of interest going through all this that my nutritionist has commented that he feels the vitamin industry isn’t far behind in being exposed like the pet food industry has.

    He has always steered me towards products directly from Albion and/or Nature’s Sunshine. He has learned a lot about the vitamin industry in his research on doing multi-species formulation and it is as daunting as the pet food industry is. Manufacturers cranking zillions of pills and being bought by different companies who brand them. His info made me shudder and I’m glad he has always shown such due diligence not only in the products he formulates, but also the industries he has to brush shoulders with in the process.

    I’ll be in and out today, but will keep an eye on this post :)

  352. Ken says:

    love gsdogs:

    Here’s the post on Teric’s lab testing:

    teric Says:
    May 4th, 2007 at 1:16 pm


    Accutrace Testing in Arlington.

  353. Cheryl W says:

    I have been reading as many blogs as I can but I have not seen much about EVO. Is anyone feeding it? All opions are appriciated.

  354. JollyCat says:

    Evo is too high in protein and yes there is such a thing. Think Atkins. jmho

  355. Diane says:

    I’ve been reading these posts now for the past few weeks, without posting, and have decided it’s time that I too, jump on board and say how wonderful this site is, and how great it’s been to read all the informative posts and all the helpful links. What a bunch of great people have gathered here!
    I extend my deepest sympathies to all of those who have lost their dear little family members. We all know how much it hurts to lose our furry babies. I just can’t say it enough…. I’m just so thankful that this site is here for us all. Hopefully, together we can make a differnece in the way things are done when it comes to providing safe and healthy food for our pets and for us.
    Evy, you are wonderful…thank you so much for taking the time to post here. We know you have so much going on right now. I too, have placed my order for your KumpiKat food, so I am probably on one of those labels you are working on. I look forward to having my 4 “kids” try out your food.
    I’ve come to the conclustion that animal lovers are the very best people on earth. Thanks so much, everyone, for all the information and support you have been offering us all here on this site.

  356. love gs dogs says:

    Thanks to Evy and Ken for info about finding teric’s testing info..and also Evy for thoughts about treats…understand position completely..

    My eyes are blog heavy at this point..

  357. LovingMyPets says:


    Thanks for your post! It was very informative regarding supplements. I’ve become very leary about supplements since I’ve learned that most of them come from China . . . which also has led me to believe that the vitamin/mineral business is just as corrupt as the pet food business. So, I agree with you completely on that.

    I’ve been trying to choose the best vitamins I can through holistic PEOPLE doctors, so I hope I’m doing the right thing. I’ve looked up Albion and Nature’s Sunshine, but they don’t offer the vitamins that I could use in my kitty’s raw diet I feed. But I guess they supply VERY good supplements for the commercial food companies such as yourself.

    You’ve been awesome, and I (WE) appreciate all that you have contributed to Itchmo! I hope you can earn life-long trust for those that feel that they need to use a smaller company commercial pet food.

    I just loved this post by Petra:

    “I think @ this point anyone with a pet who loves them dearly understands that if u want to keep them healthy its going to take homework on your part to ensure the ingredients are clean and pure. It may also involve your time and further expense if u decide to home cook which is much healthier despite all the dire warnings. Anyone buying off the shelf pet food now or in the future is risking their pets lives down the road. In addition you will continue to promote companies that have compromised or killed our pets. There are many small, holistic, organic manufacturers of clean pet food out there. Find them, use them, promote them! Any changes to the pet food industry in the future will never ensure that u are feeding your pets healthy food. It’s up to each of us to do that.”

  358. sk's mom says:

    Does anyone have any Felidae chicken and rice cat food handy? Could you please look at the pieces and let me know if they have white specks on them? Not like crystals but more like solid white salt?

  359. Evy says:

    Dear gs dogs ~

    Thanks for that understanding about the treats. I’ve thought about it more than once, but I just don’t want to be lured away from my roots. I developed an intense distrust of the pet food industry well over a decade ago, being so close to the roots via dog behavior. I saw many different breeds, ages and over time, there was no really good food that performed consistently. Students were coming back with new pups after the one they brought through class had died of cancer between 6 - 9 years of age.

    Then it all hit home for me when in 12/1997 my dog died of cancer. I know I have been doing the right thing for the right reason. My concern about doing a line of treats is doing the wrong thing for the right reason. It’s like I am driving a car and I keep an eye on the rearview mirror, deal with obstacles, watch my speed, go safely and legally, know when to let up on the gas a bit - I’ve hit a ’sweet spot’ with what I’m doing. I guess I’m worried about taking my eyes off of the road for too long, which would be kin to my doing a line of treats. It just takes one little thing and BOOM - can’t risk that.

    I have control and trust the people I do business with. This isn’t about the money for me - first and foremost it’s for my own dog and cat - that is where this started. Maybe someone else is ‘called’ to start a company that makes healthy treats for pets they can trust. Maybe it’s already out there and I don’t know enough about that field to refer anyone to. Before Deb, I just made them at home myself, baking them in the oven. (those were the days lol)


    Not everyone has the time or inclination to do raw and the general public needs a safe dry to feed. I never thought it would come to this :( I knew the industry was crooked and bent on $$$, but this has been so tragic and I’ve cried so many times. I’ve talked with so many owners whose trust was violated by other companies and it’s just wrong to have to fear for a pet’s life when buying a dry food. I feel like I’m in a parallel universe sometimes lately. Just when I thought New Orleans was as bad as it could get for America, this happens. Beyond my comprehension and all the tentacles off of it.

    If someone can help out sk’s mom with the Felidae question that’d be really cool. I’m not familiar at all with Felidae and her cat’s been having some problems (could be related back to the NB though) and she is telling me about seeing white specks in the Felidae. Is that the normal presentation of that food? Does anyone know or know someone who would know?

    Once again on a light note (dang, I am working really hard to not get swallowed up in the grief of all this):

    While most of us will be sleeping, tomorrow early morning will be something!

    The clock will read 02:03:04 on 05/06/07 and will never happen again.

    Ok, so I’m easily amused :)

    Warmly warm hugs to Fur Angels

  360. princess mom says:

    At this point, I’d be more concerned about Chenango Valley Pet Foods than Pied Piper (Canidae). I received an email “precautionary recall” from Dr. F&S, possible cross-contamination.

  361. Helen says:

    TC: I wasn’t all that smart. I let it go on for quite a while without putting 2 and 2 together. Whatever was wrong, she could taste it, but she did eat this and that piece of the food, enough to make her sick. I just feel grateful to have her still and I feel like an idiot for not figuring it out quicker. Whatever was in my bag of food, I think it was less concentrated than in later bags, and since it seemed like she could smell the worst pieces, I still have her with me. I will never overlook her opinion of her food again, and when she turns her nose up at something I will not assume she is being a fuss-budget. I am also grateful she had other foods to eat, as she ate less poison that way.

    I have a co-worker whose healthy husky started showing the same behavior with his dry Purina One dog food earlier this year, throwing pieces away and eating others. The other husky ate all his food and had seizures the vet could never explain. It is entirely possible the seizures were from the food as well as the other stuff.

  362. Maryn Sue says:

    Helen and Evy, thanks for clarifying the issues of the Evanger’s labeling and menadione that I raised yesterday. I realize I didn’t go into the detail I should have. There are also some other minor differences in ingredients between the website and labels on Evanger’s.

    Regarding treats, try It’s a small company and I trust them. Check it out for yourselves. They have mailorder or if you live in the Baltimore area they’re widely available. We also use plain rice cakes and Zuke’s.

  363. TC says:

    sk’s mom - I have Felidae Cat and Kitten Formula (not the chicken and rice, didn’t know about that one). The kibble has white “specks” of something.

    Took my magnifying glass and some of the specks are in the kibble and some are on the outside, like the kibble was rolled in it. There are more in the kibble than hanging on the outside. If any of that makes sense!

    I have seen mention of these specks before, nothing conclusive on what they are, but just that they were present and people were wondering.

    This is only second sack of Felidae, so I don’t know what it is supposed to look like.

  364. sk's mom says:

    Thank you TC. My cat is very sick and I don’t know what’s going on. I’m in a panic. I appreciate your time in answering me.

  365. TC says:

    Helen - that makes me feel better. I am not yet past feeling guilt for not reading the signs better.

    My dogs’ litter had a history of seizures (learned that years later from the breeder). From age 5, our boy has had 1-2 mild ones per year - it is just slightly more than if he was “chasing rabbits” in his sleep, for about a 1-2 minutes. His sister had never had any at all.

    This was her 1st at age 12, and was about as bad as they can be, before they just burn the dog up. I can’t even think about that night much, or the week + it took for her to quit running into walls & even recognize her toys. Or me.

    So I reserve judgment on that aspect - could be that she had her first for no apparent reason at age 12 - my research on it says that can happen. Or could be that something in that batch of food acted upon her central nervous system, and caused a seizure as would happen with a dog with no history. And we mistakenly attribute it to her family history of such things. When in truth, she might just have been poisoned by some contaminant in the food. Something over and above the other usual “crud” in the kibble that was causing the vomiting, and other symptoms. I may never know for sure.

  366. TC says:

    no problem sk’s mom. Their phone number is 800-398-1600 (from back of my package label) - maybe they could tell you what the specks are (or are not), and put your mind at ease, at least on that aspect?

    I am really sorry your cat is very sick:( This is so much a nightmare. Wondering if our animals or us are getting sick from the food supply. I will think positive thoughts for your cat’s recovery.

  367. Mary Sue says:

    sk’s mom,

    if you’re still here - here is the answer I got from Canidae re: the white specks, which are also in the Felidae Cat and Kitten Formula that we use.
    “They are simply part of the ingredients in the food and are called fines, caused by friction and settling of the product.”

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