[…]Itchmo: News For Dogs & Cats » Blog Archive » Parents Speak Out After Vick’s Dog Fighting Guilty Plea; Hank Aaron: Vick “A Very Good Guy”[…]

[…]Itchmo: News For Dogs & Cats » Blog Archive » Parents Speak Out After Vick’s Dog Fighting Guilty Plea; Hank Aaron: Vick “A Very Good Guy”[…]

I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve maintained all along that if it was a white convent nun who did what Vick did I’d be all over her just like I am Vick.

Thanks for letting me take part of your posting and expanding on it. A lot of times we all express our anger based on instinct and love of animals. Nothing wrong with that, though it is useful for all of us to know some facts in order to back up our position in the matter.

Good discussion. I meant to imply that

*what the legal consequences are and to what degree Vick should pay them*

has nothing to do with his race, occupation, income or celebrity status.

http://www.dailybreeze.com/new…..15541.html

I don’t know all the insider details as to why this got canceled before, but I DO know there was a huge furor by the LA public over the fact that the humans “re-habbing” the pit bulls were paroled convicts. One of the public’s concerns was that former inmates might have gang affiliations and would recycle the dogs back into fighting.

Again, I don’t know the inside details as to why they decided to use former convicts to train the dogs……I suspect that there might have been subsidized funding from the feds for providing employment to these individuals.

Does anyone have inside info on this? It would be enlightening.

No, no one said it was a celebrity or sports figure’s job to parent other kids. It is a parent’s job. The school shouldn’t have to do it, but for lack of parental cooperation, they do. Let me be clear on my views: No individual should ever take on the role of parent unless he can provide for that child, and teach him a strong set of ethical values.

And let’s be clear that I am NOT saying that all celebrities and sports figures are well suited to mentoring. But many are. Many can and do make a difference. And not ALL sports figures are on a high horse. However, far too many do nothing to promote good will and cultivate a better world.

But the point is that no one is parenting these kids. This produces kids who affiliate with gangs who are more inclined to commit crimes. There’s a very heavy connection documented between gangs, domestic violence, and dog fighting.

Long-term data indicates that an intact family may be one of the most powerful factors in contributing to a positive outcome for children diagnosed with conduct disorder.

Yes, dog fighting has indeed been going on for decades, maybe centuries. But’s it’s magnified now, as attested by the radical increase of fighting dogs in animal shelters. So while it is not anything new, it’s exploding.

Goodell setting a zero tolerance is all well and good. But the sad reality is that Vick has not been banned from pro-ball. Twenty years ago that would not have been the case. That someone recognizes there is a problem and tries to “right” it within the constraints of the profit picture is a positive step, but does not go a long way in getting rid of dog fighting. You have to get to the source.

The source is that point at which an individual says to himself that it’s ok to let an animal die for the sake of winning some money, whether it’s a dollar or thousands. The moment someone justifies a killing or maiming in his own mind may be too late. You need to train them BEFORE they reach this point. And judging from the stats, they start pretty young in life.

As far as kids bankrolling dog-fights in lower class neighborhoods. There are different kinds of dogfights, and not all require a bankroll. Young kids with a dog in the ghetto have a couple bucks and challenge the kid across the street who has a dog. That’s where it often starts.

In city neighborhoods dominated by gangs and drug crime, people use pitbulls to intimidate residents and gangs steal dogs — even sometimes cats — for fights. The fights take place in abandoned buildings, basement, garages, warehouses, even in apartments where they used the doors to block a doorway and build a pit.

Does dog fighting stem from testosterone? Hell, no. While those that commit intentional cruelty are indeed predominantly male, they do not do it BECAUSE of testosterone.

More stats:

Distribution of intentional cruelty to animals by age group:

01% Child (7-12)*
22% Teen (13-19)
77% Adult (20 and up)

Intentional animal cruelty committed by age and gender.

Male Female Age Group

100% 0% Child (7-12)* 95% 5% Teen (13-19) 91% 9% Adult (20 and over)

*I suspect that the percentage is a bit higher for the kids 7-12, but that adults are inclined to not report it and give the kid another chance.

Read more at

http://files.hsus.org/web-file.....tyRprt.pdf

A study by Chicago’s Anti-Cruelty Society said 40 percent of primary school children in the Chicago area have seen animal fights or know about them. That should be good enough reason to provide mentoring at an early age, don’t you think?

http://www.dailybreeze.com/new.....15541.html

um, a majority of sports figures are actively involved in charity and their communities. it’s NOT a sports figure’s job to parent others children and change the lower economic ‘hoods. it’s a community’s job along with schools and parents. they are not the most visible when it comes to pushing the tough image that includes fighting dogs. i’d toss that one into the rapper’s court for the urban dog fighting presently, and before them, it goes to old school good ol’ boys and quite frankly, history. this has been going on forever. many highly regarded sports figures are NOT on a high horse. that seems to be a problem cropping up more and more with the newer entitled generation and by no means is that limited to sports and entertainment. Goodell has already set a zero tolerance and recognized there was a problem before all this came down and had started enforcing it. tells ya something right there.

and i find it hard to believe that dog fighting would be more prevalent in poor communities. after all, someone needs to bankroll it ;) . . . although it is on the rise in urban areas, but i have to wonder how much of that is due to economics or street cred. basically dog/cock fighting seems to stem from testosterone more than anything else.

Actually it IS about black and white, football, and overpaid celebrities, though indirectly. I don’t believe ANY of us on this website EVER lost sight of the fact that the real issue is torture, brutality, and killing.

But you have to look at the source. The source, for the large part, comes from children and adults who are/were raised in low class projects, where cheap entertainment and making a buck on the sly comes from dog fighting. Sports figures and celebrities can make all the difference by coming off their high horses and redirecting these kids’ moral compass, because certainly the kids don’t get it at home. THIS is one of the ways in which brutality to animals will be extinguished to some degree. You cannot get rid of the problem solely by waiting for arrests to occur. You have to get out there and retrain the kids’ thinking and respect for ALL living things when they are young.

Dog-fighting is not directly tied to race, BUT those races that are highly populated in large, low class neighborhoods often are tied to dog-fighting. That doesn’t mean it’s a Black thing only. Not by a long shot.

It doesn’t mean it’s strictly a poverty issue either, though I have to wonder if any studies of those arrested at dog fights ever examined this aspect. [My guess is that 99% of the people in attendance were, as children, brought up in low class housing.]

So while we’re discussing issues on the periphery of dog-fighting, none of us has ever lost site of the real problem.

In fact, maybe until Dec 10th our postings would be better spent and more productive looking for solutions to the dog-fighting problem as opposed to blasting Vick. We can blast Vick again later.

it’s about amoral brutality and conscienceless inhumanity

imo

2CatMom, I am always baffled by the way groups circle the wagons whenever one of their supposed “community” is in trouble. My reaction is to want to toss out and disavow the offender (if the facts are clear-cut) as an exception that is not representative of the group as a whole. Not to embrace the offender or make excuses for bad behavior. But it happens again and again.

I don’t understand why outsiders who are asked about Vick don’t simply say something innocuous, if they need to comment at all.