PETA Campaigns Against Dog And Cat Breeders
This billboard in New York is part of PETA’s campaign against cat and dog breeders.
Over the next few months, PETA will be posting up billboards and putting out the message that people should not buy animals from breeders or pet stores. They want to emphasize to the public that millions of animals are dying in shelters, and when a person buys a pet from a breeder or store, that means one less home for a shelter animal.
PETA says the real villains are the animal breeders. They state that breeders are contributing to the animal population epidemic in the country and are also making a profit off of it.
In response to PETA’s campaign against them, some breeders have fought back and said that responsible breeders are not the cause of animal overpopulation problems. They also said that many breeders help breed rescues and animal shelters.
Breeders have stated that PETA’s campaign does not reflect the difference between responsible breeders and backyard breeders and puppy mills. They said this is a complex issue, and PETA’s response to it is extremely black and white.
Some also said that many of the animal overpopulation problems result from people not spaying or neutering and allowing unwanted litters to be produced and irresponsible pet ownership.
Instead of PETA trying to campaign against breeders, they said animal groups and organizations should work together to help animals in shelters.
Source: PETA
(Thanks Jodi)
September 12th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
bad move on PETA’s part. they are attacking the wrong people and i don’t think the general public will buy into it. if they would have attacked puppy mills and pet stores, they could have had a good chance to educate, but people who have bought from a breeder (including the more than too many from byb’s) generally have a good experience and think their breeder (no matter how crappy in reality) is great, not evil. heck, they also blew a chance to have people like me (animal welfare) behind them on this if they would have gone after the right people. as it is, i just find their billboard offensive.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
good for PETA! it’s a sad day when people (especially the ‘animal loving breeders’) are so blind, ignorant, or deluded that they can’t make the connection that they are THE PROBLEM, and need to be told via a media campaign.
i think it’s really more likely that just like the major puppy mills, small puppy mills (aka ‘hobby breeders’) don’t give a damn about animals and do it only for the money and some kind of twisted kick from controlling the animals. really - breeding dogs is only one step removed from being a dog fighter.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
On its 2002 federal income-tax return, PETA claimed a $9,370 write-off for a giant walk-in freezer. In sworn testimony during the January 2007 animal-cruelty trial of two PETA employees, a PETA manager acknowledged that the organization has a walk-in freezer for the purpose of storing dead pets. She also acknowledged that PETA contracts with a Norfolk-area crematory service to dispose of the dead bodies, which measure over a ton each month.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
I think after the recent publicity PETA’s gotten (collecting animals from veterininarians with the promise of finding them homes, only to kill them a few minutes later), their credibility on any subject is pretty much non-existent.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:58 pm
Straybaby, I agree. A realistic program to crack down on BYB’s and puppy mills would be an excellent start to put an end to the problem.
I have to admit that I wonder about those pets sold by reputable breeders; do their offspring get rehomed to people who become backyard breeders? The reputable breeder isn’t directly responsible for second and third and nth generation pets……but, let’s face it, indirectly they are.
PETA needs to reorganize. Too many questionable things happening.
September 12th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
“The reputable breeder isn’t directly responsible for second and third and nth generation pets……but, let’s face it, indirectly they are.”
Many reputable breeders spay and neuter the animals they let go out to the public.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
“small puppy mills (aka ‘hobby breeders’) don’t give a damn about animals and do it only for the money and some kind of twisted kick from controlling the animals.”
Are we meaning the same terms? Hobby breeders ARE JUST the breeders who are doing it because they love the historic breeds (some dating back thousands of years) and want to preserve them. They are not in it for a buck. Comparing that to dog fighting is extremist, but so is PETA.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
PETA goes to dog shows and lets well cared for and well loved dogs out of their crates to get lost or hit by cars. PETA has a goal of ending all pet ownership for everyone permanently. They harm animals to make a point and destroy other people’s property. They are doing nothing to shut down puppy mills but are attacking responsible breeders who take back any dog they have bred at any time. Responsible breeders who are working to eliminate animal diseases and who give people the joy of owning beautiful healthy animals of their choice. If PETA spent the money they get on helping real animals the shelters would not have so many pets euthanized. The money does not go to animals it goes to their nutty agenda. I am all for helping shelter pets and breed rescues. PETA has nothing to do with that. Just think of a life where having your beloved pets would be illegal. Well that’s what PETA is aiming for.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
Lynn says:
I have to admit that I wonder about those pets sold by reputable breeders; do their offspring get rehomed to people who become backyard breeders? The reputable breeder isn’t directly responsible for second and third and nth generation pets……but, let’s face it, indirectly they are.
Have you ever seen a reputable breeder’s contract? Spay/neuter is required if the dog is sold as a young puppy, or already done if it is an adult. Registration is limited, meaning if the dog is bred the offspring can not be registered with AKC, or registration papers are held until proof of sterilization is provided from the vet. Breeders guarantee their dogs against disease and do genetic testing on the dogs they breed. Any reputable breeder will take the dog back and re-home themselves if it doesn’t work out. Backyard breeders do not get their dogs from reputable breeders. They come from other BYBs, pet stores and mills.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Sylvia I totally agree with you peta’s goal is to stop all pet ownership. They are not about animal care they are about pet extinction. Iam involved in the puppy mill issue and the people I’ve met from peta have their own agenda.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Anonymous, I agree with you & you are 100% right. Once you buy a dog from a reputable breeder she is your friend for life. You don’t live up to your contract or mistreat that baby either she or someone like me who has her dogs will get that baby back & they will get there money back. I have pure breed & mixed breeds & will always have at least 1 Eskie. A lot of people who think they have pure breeds really have puppy mill or byb dogs & somehow they even get papers but as far as I know they don’t get away with showing them. Put a pure breed from a reputable breeder next to what some people claim to be pure breed & you can really see the difference.
I hope there will always be reputable breeders because no breed should ever die out.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
lynn, many byb’s get their dogs at pet stores, other byb’s and auctions. a small percentage of byb dogs prob are from reputable breeders who didn’t follow up/lost contact with a puppy buyer, or were outright lied to. we get wanna be byb’s calling the rescues looking for intact pure bred dogs!
PETA is not going to get fashion plate franny who wants a trendy pocket dog puppy to adopt at a shelter by attacking breeders. ain’t gonna happen. nor are they going to stop that same person from re-selling the dog once the LL finds out about her impulse purchase. and the next owner from selling or passing it on when it doesn’t paper train fast enough. by the 4th owner, they are just giving it away and the 5th owner turns it in because it’s a reactive unsocialized fear biter that still isn’t paper trained. and then there’s all the perfectly lovely mid-to -large sized 7-12mo dogs that get turned in because their owner didn’t train the dog. if those dogs had been sold by a REPUTABLE breeder, they wouldn’t be sitting in a cage. only the ones from byb’s etc do for the most part. many RB chip their dogs incase they should ever end up in a shelter, they can retrieve them.
PETA is missing the real problem in their agenda blindness.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Lynn obviously has done no homework at all. I not only have seen reputable breeders contracts I have one. The breeders I know not only screen and rescreen prospective owners but turn many away. The pup must be neutered by a certain date or it must be returned. No AKC papers without proof from a vet that a dog is neutered. All dogs to be bred have the hips xrayed, eyes screened regularly by a dog ophthamologist, hearts checked and depending on the breed other necessary health screenings. Dogs that may produce a problem are neutered and carefully placed in a good home. All dogs are to be returned to the breeder, at any age, if they can no longer be kept. These dogs do not end up in shelters, mills or other people’s backyards. Good breeders are proud of their beautiful dogs and good kennel names. Maybe Lynn should contact some national breed clubs to get the facts. Then she might not be so gung ho on PETA because all the laws they are trying to change PROMOTE puppy mill breeding and will possibly eliminate good breeders. I am all for adopting from shelters too. I have had both rescue and purebreed dogs in my life and loved every one of them equally. Anonymous and Thomas you have the correct facts. Too bad some other people never bother to find things out for before passing incorrect judgements.
PS Lynn, All national breed clubs run by responsible purebreed breeders have their own rescues too. They take the puppy mill and unwanted dogs in and find good homes for them. Lots of work and expense but worth every penny. Are you part of a rescue group?
September 12th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Slyvia you are 100% right.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:52 pm
Reputable breeders are not the ones causing the “population” problem. They have spay/neuter contracts on every pet puppy that leaves their home, and they will always take back and rehome animals if for some reason the owner can no longer keep it. No, the ones causing the problems are those that bring a pet into their homes, fail to bother getting it spayed or neutered, then allow it to be bred. The innocent products of this sort of carelessness are the ones you most often find in the shelters, not dogs produced by the responsible breeder. Other shelter dogs are the victims of irresponsible owners that allow them to run loose until they get finally get picked up by animal control, or dogs brought home on impulse and are then ignored until their behavior has gotten totally out of control. PETA is an extremist organization that wants to eliminate ALL pet ownership, so please don’t buy into this line of propaganda.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
I’m staying out of this fray, except to propose my own campaign and billboard:
“PETA *KILLS* shelter pit bulls’ chances.”
September 12th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
I am very torn on this issue. I always try to talk people into adopting from a shelter, but the fact is that there are people who are in love with a specific breed. I don’t think there is anything wrong with responsible breeding as long as the breeder ensures that all the pets get responsible homes and treats the animals very well. The only thing wrong with it is that of course, there are so many dogs who need homes, you would think that no one would need to buy a dog. But this isn’t true when there is a regional/local mismatch between the supply of dogs in shelters and demand.
Where I live (The Wash DC area), there is plenty of competition for small dogs that come into shelters, specifically, young healthy ones. Lots of people live in condos and smaller homes where a large dog is not practical, or they don’t have a yard. So the small dogs in shelters who are young-ish and in good health get snapped up. Getting on a breed rescue list and waiting for a fairly young, fairly healthy dog of a desired small breed to come available — well, good luck with that. You might be able to get one if you are willing to drive to Wisconsin or Ohio.
Yes, it would be nice if all the people who want to adopt a dog would adopt whatever is available — even if they are older dogs, sick dogs, larger dogs — but some people just aren’t up to that right away. Such people who have just gone through the process of nursing an elderly chronically ill pet over a long period who are wiped out financially and emotionally.
What we really should focus on is shutting down puppy mills, not going after all breeders including responsible home breeders.
Stefani
September 12th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Sorry, Anonymous was not intentional.
Let’s not pile on Lynn for asking a question. Peta has done a really good job of bashing breeders to the public, and if someone has never dealt with a breeder, they may not know the real deal. However, I’d be willing to bet AsocialApe has never met a reputable breeder, never been to a show, never visited a kennel club and never will. I am certain he just blindly follows Peta’s extremist rantings without gathering the facts or asking questions if he truly believes that reputable breeders are one step away from dog fighters. It’s not about money or control. It’s about preserving and protecting the breed, producing quality animals of sound mind and body, and being responsible for them throughout their entire life. That doesn’t fit in with Peta’s mission of ending pet ownership though. Commercial breeders (puppy mills) are protected by the USDA, making them impossible for Peta to touch. Hobby breeders are an easy target.
Just want to add to Sylvia’s comment; All reputable breed clubs have a code of ethics. Members have to agree to specific standards for breeding rising and selling dogs along with sportsmanship. Peta has ethics in name only. Breeders live by ethics.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Oh, but I’d also like to ask, has anyone met or spoken with a breeder - commercial, hobby, puppy-mill, or back yard - who admits to being an IRresponsible or DISreputable one? I certainly haven’t. No, I don’t think all breeders are disreputable, but I think many of them are irresponsible. Why? Because breeders facilitate the addition of hundreds of thousands of animals to the “pet” population annually, insisting all the while that it is their right to do so. And perhaps it is their right, but is it the *right* thing to do - considering the obscene number of dogs and cats destroyed by animal shelters each year? Because NO ONE considers themselves to be an irresponsible or disreputable breeder?
September 12th, 2007 at 7:49 pm
I couldn’t agree more with Nancy and Sylvia. On top of that, most RB’s barely break even with their breeding programs. We invest most of the money right back in to the programs. If there is any extra, which is rare, ours goes in to helping out our local TNR program, donated to our low-no cost spay and neuter programs for materials, buy items for shelters that they need and fund breed rescues. So not only do we make sure our own animals don’t end up in a pound, we make sure any of the animals in our breed stay out of pounds so we end up taking care of the puppy mill, pet store and byb’s animals that they usually don’t microchip. And we help out other breed rescues as well. I could go on and on. Get rid of the reputable breeders you will be seriously crippling animal recues, more animals will be in the pound, etc… Many of the dogs and cats in the shelters that usually make up the majority of euthanized animals are unadoptable due to thier personality, but they don’t want to advertise that since it would’nt be as large of a number wich wouldn’t help their pet ownership ending goal which they openly advertise. Also along with the bill they are trying to help pass, AB1634, not only does it harm reputable breeders and condone/help puppy mills and pet stores but it allows animal testing. Very hypocritical bunch. I guess they will back anything that comes along as long as it help their own twisted agenda.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Hey PETA….
Do something about TOXIC PET FOODS!!!!!!!
September 12th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
The error of thought is that people think those of us who opt for a purebred would get a random bred animal if the purebreds were not available. That’s not true. Adopting from a shelter is often a good thing, but it’s not always the best fit in terms of personality, size, and assorted traits that work for some people but not for others. Some of our shelter dogs have have genetic problems that a good breeder would have screened for. I’ve also pulled a heartworm positive dog, something we would not have gotten from a good breeder. People gush about how wonderful a mixed breed is when you get the best of all the breed traits. Well, sometime you get the worst of them and that’s a problem. Our girl had dominance without patience; alertness without sociability; territoralism without courage. She was a wreck of a dog and had horrible dysplasia as well. She was not a fun dog. (I miss her. She got cancer)
In areas where the shelters are filled with large dogs, do you think the people who want small ones should just ‘make do’ even though they will never really want the large ones?
The label of responsible or irresponsible is not one that the breeder gets to pick. It’s the label we owners/buyers give them and they have to earn the title of being a good / responsible breeder. As the prospective owner, the responsibility is YOURS to do business only with those breeders who meet the higher standards. If people stop buying from the irresponsible breeders, the BYBs, the millers, then those people will stop breeding. Takes two parties to make this mess ….seller/buyer. Both groups need to be held to higher standards. Don’t enable bad breeders …encourage the good ones.
PETA …. kind of a cult or a money grubbing organization with no moral leg to stand on.
They’ve hidden it now but in the early days of the Internet I thought I’d join them so I researched their online mission statements. There is was in plain sight. They want the extinction of all domestic species of animals. Someday, when we finally have pet over population under control (and we will) PETA will have to find some other flag to wave. Right now they hide behind the populist cry to stop the killing of shelter pets. It’s a worthy goal, but PETA wants all dogs and cats dead so having everyone go for a sterilized shelter pet will get them to their goal.
So ask yourself …. if we get everyone to stop breeding animals and there is no more pet over population problem to fill the shelters, where will we get our companions from in the decades that follows. Obviously, come that glorious day when there are no longer any animals languishing in shelters (demand has exceeded supply) only three options remain:
1 We support responsible breeding. (My first choice)
2. We no longer have any companion animals. (Unthinkable!)
3. We get all our animals from countries not under the thumb of AR groups and thereby lose all possibility of encouraging responsible breeding and humane animal husbandry. (Horrible!)
BTW, animals are already being transported around the US from areas of high supply/low demand to areas of high demand/low supply. They are also bringing in larger numbers, especially of small dogs, from Mexico and the Caribbean …mostly it’s ‘rescue’ now. Soon people in those other countries will see $ to be made and it will become a for-profit business.)
Brains, people …. use them.
www.petakillsanimals.org
September 12th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Stefani- There are a lot of people that educate themselves and do their homework before they buy a pet. And they are not making headlines. They want a well bred pet with a line of healthy sound dogs behind him. They want a family companion with good and predictable temperament correct for their breed. They want a relationship with the breeder and they want a guarantee. This is why breeders have waiting lists for puppies before they are even on the ground. While some people are happy with a shelter dog, sometimes a well bred pet is better option, especially if the family has small children or special needs. No one should question their ethics, condemn them or attempt to limit their choices.
Here’s one example, of how flawed Peta’s logic is. I have a Siberian cat, purebred from a reputable breeder. He was neutered already when I bought him. He stays indoors and he is beautiful and fits in great with the dogs, but that is not the reason I sought out this breed. They have different dander than other cats. Many people that are allergic to cats can live with this breed. I found this out by doing research. Then I established a relationship with breeders. I found them through their club referrals. My husband is allergic to cats but has no problems living with our Siberian. We even went to a breeder and had contact with her cats before we decided to give it a try. She allowed us to test with her cats even though she did not have one to sell us. Why because she is a good steward for her breed. So you see, buying this cat in no way took a home away from a homeless cat at the shelter, as Peta would have you believe. We would simply not be able to own a cat at all if all if all that were available were rescues or feral cats. We would just be missing out on the joy of having a cat to love.
One size does not fit all, but Peta seeks to limit choices by making people feel guilty. It’s is wrong on many levels. People that want to adopt should, and do every day. People that can’t, or for what ever reason, don’t want a poorly bred pet should not adopt simply because it is politically correct. Everyone is entitled to make the right decision for themselves, their family and their lifestyle. Not everyone is equipped to deal with the baggage of a rescue. And yes, most have some issue to overcome, even if they adept well to the new home. Without a reputable breeder or breed rescue standing behind the animal to take it back, what other recourse do people have? Pet shops and BYBs do not take returns. This is why impulse buys, free to good homes, and pets with owners that have not done their research end up homeless in shelters. Not because of breeders that do everything possible to make sure an animal gets a good home and stays in it or willingly accepts it back if it’s not a good fit for all. It’s not easy to get a pet from a good breeder. I am one so I know first hand. I have turned people away and it’s not easy because you know they will not listen and the dog they do buy will probably come back to me or another club member to foster and re-home someday. There really is nothing I can do about that. I can not control the choices people make, I can only control where and with whom my dogs go. As long as you have the cash you can get one form a BYB in the news paper or plunk down the plastic at the pet shop. This is really where Peta should be barking if they really cared about homeless pets. They don’t. Think about it. The agenda is ending breeding, not making sure pets get homes. Actions speak louder than sound bites.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
I happen to be a very reputable [cat bengals] breeder. Or I was for 12 years. I always spayed and nuetered before they ever left My house. and I have turned down plenty of people if i didn’t think it was the right situation. Also, there is no money in it like people think. and cat shows cost a lot of money, but if you are breeding for the best type in an animal you should show if you can.
I do a ton of rescues. I have more rescues than I do My own cats. and I help feed half the animals in the neighborhood.
I also worked for the vet where PETA came in and took our Mama cat and kittens and then Killed them. I was at the trial, I saw all the horrible pictures.
There is a puppy mill here in town but they don’t bother with that. They’d rather go out and get their own puppies and kittens and kill them. And dump them in the garbadge.
And this is what they do with all their money. Put up billboards and do stupid things instead of helping animals. You should see their office in Va. Beach, A beautiful all glass , waterfront , 4 million doller building.
Yes, look up- peta kills animals on the web. it’s all true.
And yes, there are some very good breeders out there.
Peta wants no one to own a pet. They are mean, and dangerous.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Painting all dog and cat breeders black will not help anyone but big businesses that abuse animals.
http://www.insidehls.com/faq.htm
September 12th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
There is no such thing as a GOOD breeder !!!!!
September 12th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Pit Bull Lover says:
September 12th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
sure all breeders do think they are reputable or have the right etc, BUT, the reality is in their actions. Hobby breeders contribute a very small number to the hundreds of thousands of pets born each year. many do not even breed every year. or every other year for that matter. there are *guidelines* when looking for a reputable breeder and their actions speak for their reputation, not necessarily what comes out of their mouth ;) many of the reputable Dal breeders held off on breeding when the breed was in such disney state. and they are the ones along with rescue still cleaning up the mess. the breed club worked very hard to save the breed from the public and irresponsible breeders. unfortunately, it doesn’t look at this point like the pit bulls have the same support system behind them. there’s a few other breeds that also need the breed club and reputable breeders to really step it up as their breeds are on the slippery exploitation slope (the breed clubs may be stepping up, but they just haven’t gotten a handle on it yet) the reputable breeders don’t just breed because they have the right nor do they sell to just anyone that feels they have a right to have such and such a dog. so i think they do step back and ask is it the right thing. in fact, i believe they do that before they decide to do any breeding because that is the whole point. is this the right thing to do, how does this breeding better the breed etc.
there’s nothing that will hurt a breed more than popularity and greed, imo. and that doesn’t lie at the feet of responsible breeders, that lies at the feet of the public in general.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
theAsocialApe. . .
The “hobby” or responsible breeder makes no money and often loses money. I know as I am a breeder because I show and adore my breed. In NINE years I have had a grand total of four litters which was 10 puppies total. I know where every single puppy is right now, and have become good friends with all of their owners. I have a contract that I will take any of the pups back and any time for any reason and that they are required to release them only to me if they choose to get rid of them. We health test the adults and pups, these pups are born in our bedrooms and live their first weeks there. We very carefully screen our puppy buyers and only sell to those we feel are the absolute best home for our babies. All of my hobby breeder friends are the same. We are not the problem. We ADORE our dogs above just about anything in life. . . they are our passion.
If a dog of our breed is in a shelter, they have many breed contacts to call to come and rescue them. Our rescue program is very good all across the nation. And even to get a rescue dog is very hard to qualify.
If you condemn responsible hobby breeders, where would you like to buy a puppy? A shelter? But those dogs come from somewhere, too. . . usually mills or backyard breeders . Or maybe like PETA do you think pet dogs should cease to exist?
September 12th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Baaboo says:
September 12th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
There is no such thing as a GOOD breeder !!!!!
You’re absolutely right. Reputable breeders are not good, they’re GREAT!!! The others … not good.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
I had never thought about this as an issue before. I am not sure what to think now. If people want a pedigree cat I guess they are not going to be the ones to take a mongrel home are they?
September 12th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Re:
“Stefani- There are a lot of people that educate themselves and do their homework before they buy a pet. And they are not making headlines. They want a well bred pet with a line of healthy sound dogs behind him. They want a family companion with good and predictable temperament correct for their breed. They want a relationship with the breeder and they want a guarantee. This is why breeders have waiting lists for puppies before they are even on the ground. While some people are happy with a shelter dog, sometimes a well bred pet is better option, especially if the family has small children or special needs. No one should question their ethics, condemn them or attempt to limit their choices. ”
I agree with these statements. I have said that I support responsible breeding, for those who want a purebred animal. I understand the need that this fulfills, not everyone can take a shelter dog.
And as I pointed out, in the metro area were I live, it is hard to get a healthy young or middle aged adult small dog, especially one of a specific breed, from out of rescue. No, I don’t believe that those people who want or need a small dog should just adopt a large one and deal with it. A lot of people can’t — they live in condos, have no yard, etc.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
Liz, I can only speak for myself, but I have both. I know other people do too. I don’t show any more & have never had a litter in my 61 years even thou I don;t have them fixed until I know they are not going to be showed. My mixed breeds are always fixed after their 2 or 3 heat. As long as I have the money (to care for them old & sick) & the room for them to have a wonderful life I will always have both. I love them all but God willing I will always have a pure breed Eskie.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:25 am
Pit Bull Lover- I can certainly understand your anguish given your breed. Pit bulls have been exploited like no other breed. Also they were never accepted by the AKC so they do not have the benefit of a sanctioned parent club. I don’t even know if there was ever an attempt to go in that direction with the breed. Do you? I’m not sure the answer to this very complex problem is adopting out this breed to people that are ill-equipped to handle the dog or his reputation. We have to face reality and understand that if John-q public wants a beagle for a family pet we should not expect that he is suitable to be a pit bull owner. It is not his fault that we have more pit bulls than suitable homes. He does not want or need a Pit bull and you can’t make that choice for anyone else. You can not adopt your way out of decades of irresponsibility. I just don’t see how a valid argument can be made that no one should breed beagles when pits are dieing in shelters. In order to fix a problem you need to understand it and Peta does not understand the problem at all.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:27 am
opps I came up Anonymous again.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:52 am
PETA’s (Ingrid Newkirk’s) position that “pit bulls” in shelters, and the breeds and its mixes in general, should be euthanized, banned, and no longer bred, is tied to their (her) assertion that there are plenty of shelter dogs waiting to be adopted, so people can just select some other kind of dog or lovable mutt when bullies no longer exist. Who, but criminals, animal abusers (dogfighters), and the misguided would want one of these dogs, anyway?
*I* would. I love these silly, smiling, affectionate, muscular, short-haired, wiggly, whip-tailed, blocky-headed dogs. I understand the devotion to particular breeds, and I appreciate those who care to selectively and responsibly breed for the betterment and continuation of breed characteristics. I don’t fault anyone for loving and preferring certain breeds, because I feel that way myself about “pit bulls” (and bull terriers, which I’ve not yet had the pleasure of owning). Luckily - *and* unfortunately - there is no shortage of pit bulls, so my criticism of those who breed them is particularly harsh.
I’m not against the breeding of dogs or breeders, in general. I’m against puppy mills, backyard breeders, irresponsible owners whose dogs procreate by “accident,” and the continued overbreeding of popular dogs for profit. Not everyone nor every breed is part of an area’s pet overpopulation problem, that’s true, but there are entirely too many people who don’t seem to recognize - or care - that there is a problem at all. To them, breeding animals is a selfish act, and not about the societal “greater good” or the welfare of the animals.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:19 am
All these “good idea” organizations - such as PETA, the Humane Society - now as bad as the killer corporates… I keep telling people watch how they are infiltrated, follow the money, the interlocking directorates… back to the same people who have demonstrated so little respect for life on this planet - incl. human life.
We’re talking the same people who secretly can’t wait for DNA techniques to produce designer people… much less designer animals, and what we’ve seen happen to cattle, has been happening with pets, and already with humans (controlling the cloning humans or experiments with animals and humans in the West easily handled by western companies who take their labs to the East… where do you think e.g., Genetic Savings and Clone - the pet cloning people - went?)
September 13th, 2007 at 1:36 am
I will take any opportunity provided to castigate PETA and Newkirk for their hypocritical and cynical position on pit bulls. But the bulk of my statements on breeding, in this particular thread/story, however, excluded them. The “pit bull problem” is vast, currently unmanageable, and I don’t see an effective or fair solution in sight. The issue is further complicated by their shelter-overwhelming numbers, the high percentage of pit bull owners who are irresponsible and/or criminal, and the seemingly inevitable reports of bites/attacks/fatalities by poorly bred, badly trained, and carelessly kept dogs. A fearful and misinformed public, egged on by sensational headline-/news-seeking media, and compounded by politicians making names for themselves with breed-specific legislation, make saving and redeeming the reputation of the pit bull type dogs an uphill battle.
One thing I can’t state emphatically enough is this: I definitely DON’T think pit bulls are suitable for everyone, no matter how many of the dogs wait - and die - in animal shelters. They are simply too many, and too many of those are so aggressive and undersocialized - nevermind poorly bred or unwisely crossbred - that it’s not realistic or safe to save them.
But you’re correct, just as PETA (and Newkirk) assert - wrongly - that a beagle could be a perfect adoption alternative for a pit bull lover like me, only an unrealistic - and dangerous - loon would propose to a person or family for whom a beagle is the ideal dog, that they should instead adopt a pit bull. Yikes!
September 13th, 2007 at 1:46 am
I am just not sure it is beneficial to persuade people to make that decision based on the societal “greater good†or the welfare of the animals in general.
It is more important that they select a pet that is the right one for them and commit to caring for it as a family member or not have a pet at all.
Reputable breeders do not breed in line with popular breed trends or even try to fill the demands for a particular breed. Often irresponsible people become BYBs because they see an opportunity to make a quick buck. Then the rest of us are left to clean up the mess. Real education, not extremist campaigns are by far the best way to turn the tide.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:10 am
Pit Bull Lover, I agree with you. It is so sad what is happening to the Pit Bulls. I have 3 friends with pits, 1-man, wife & 2young kids, 2_ his mother & father, 3-a very old women on my MOW route. All 3 dogs are welcome at my house anytime & I would babysit them anytime. I’m am very potective with my babies but these Pits are wonderful. They worry about their dogs all the time, and get just as mad as you with what is happening. Things for the Pit Bulls seem to just keep going down hill. It’s not fair, I know Pits are good dogs, It’s what people are doing to them.
I am very against puppy mills & will stand up against them anywhere & anytime. I live in a state (PA.) that is one of the top states for puppy mills. A lot of really good people stand up against them but we are just not winning yet. Going to call it a night now, talk to you again later.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:34 am
I’ve just now come back to this topic and see all the references to me in response to my posting on 09-12-2007 at 4:58PM. My rebuttals:
To Traci 4:59PM “Many reputable breeders spay and neuter the animals they let go out to the public.â€
I grant you that MOST reputable breeders [by my definition] will have spayed or neutered the animal before releasing it to the new family. Not ALL of them do. In fact, many reputable breeders sell pets before the pet is old enough to have this surgery performed. True, there may be a contract involved, promising that the new family will have this surgery by a particular date, but who’s enforcing it? Perhaps SOME reputable breeders follow up, though I seriously doubt you can say that ALL reputable breeders do.
This brings up the definition of what is a “reputable breeder.†This topic is an old discussion and the definition is still shaggy.
Anonymous at 5:45PM: “Have you ever seen a reputable breeder’s contract?â€
I certainly have seen breeder contracts. A number of them, in fact. However, there are an alarming number of people who will spend the money and buy from a reputable breeder, sign the contract, and then breed the pet when it becomes of age, and sell the offspring to people who don’t care about AKC registration. So what do you have? A breeder with all the best intentions who believed the purchaser would honor the contract. But didn’t.
Some reputable breeders diligently follow up. But I know that not all of them do.
To Straybaby 6:28 PM: Yes, I’m aware of these things.
To Sylvia 6:30PM:
1. “Lynn obviously has done no homework at all.†Wrong. Lynn has done a lot of “homework†on this for the past 30 years.
2. “Maybe Lynn should contact some national breed clubs to get the facts.†Over the years I’ve been very well connected to many breed clubs and rescue org’s.
3. “Then she might not be so gung ho on PETA because…†WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU READ THAT I WAS GUNG HO ON PETA? Go back and reread my statements.
4. “All national breed clubs run by responsible purebreed breeders have their own rescues too.†Don’t assume that I know nothing. I’m very aware of what goes on.
To trucorgi at 7:32PM: “Let’s not pile on Lynn for asking a questionâ€
Actually I wasn’t asking the question in order to get educated; rather I was posting my point in question form for the readers’ consideration. [But thanks, trucorgi, for your intervention.]
To Pit Bull Lover at 7:38 pm: “No, I don’t think all breeders are disreputable, but I think many of them are irresponsible. Why? Because breeders facilitate the addition of hundreds of thousands of animals to the “pet†population annually, insisting all the while that it is their right to do so.â€
One point I’d like to make: If you trace the dog from a BYB, and the pet is indeed a purebred, then it is only logical to assume that somewhere in the ancestry a “reputable breeder†broke the code of ethics, unwittingly or not [e.g., not following through on new ownership, etc.].
To Pit Bull Lover’s comment I would like to propose a wild, half-baked idea to help the overpopulation problem and to test the sincerity of breeders. Hang on to your hats, as this is simply in the bare bones concept stage. What if, just WHAT IF, all reputable breeders adhered to a one year moratorium on breeding starting on January 1, 2008? Just to prove that they have the breed’s best interests at heart……and to help weed out back yard breeders. If all reputable breeders did this for just one year starting on the date shown above, then we would know that any animal born in the year 2008 is the product of a BYB.
Like I said, the idea needs brainstorming and work.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:36 am
I think PETA should be focusing more on factory farm conditions which are immoral. Anyone who has seen the inside of a factory farms and has empathy should agree. There is a video at http://meat.org that shows these conditions.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:56 am
PETA’s been around since the 1980’s and if any of you are old enough to remember the work they did back then, you will recall that they did wonderful things.
Like any organization that is saturated with many different interest groups. It’s my personal view that over the years they have splintered into many different directions.
As in business, you must find your niche and perfect it. My gut tells me they’ve been so busy chasing off in so many directions that they haven’t really looked at their structure. I see of their more recent actions as questionable and I wonder how long it will take before too many loose canons fire.
But then, who can expect them to put reviewing a mission statement on a higher priority level than running out and saving an animal?
I think the time has come for PETA to take a good look at where they are headed, to do better tactical planning rather than react without solid strategy.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:15 am
Lynn says: I would like to propose a wild, half-baked idea to help the overpopulation problem and to test the sincerity of breeders. Hang on to your hats, as this is simply in the bare bones concept stage. What if, just WHAT IF, all reputable breeders adhered to a one year moratorium on breeding starting on January 1, 2008? Just to prove that they have the breed’s best interests at heart……and to help weed out back yard breeders. If all reputable breeders did this for just one year starting on the date shown above, then we would know that any animal born in the year 2008 is the product of a BYB.
Interesting concept but it will be met with a chilly reception.
First, why do we need to “test the sincerity of breeders� This is subjective. Breeding is not a crime. And it is up to the puppy buyer to decide if his breeder is sincere. Ask questions. Get references. Do your homework.
Who are we supposed to be “proving†this to? Peta?
Why is it a reputable breeder’s responsibility to “weed out back yard breeders� We know who they are. Look at the classified section in your local paper and you’ll know too.
“then we would know that any animal born in the year 2008 is the product of a BYB.â€
And what would we gain by having this information? Do you think the shelters will be any less full if reputable breeders don’t breed? We already know there will be no affect because our dogs aren’t there, so what is to be proven or gained? And how exactly do you think this will “help the overpopulation problem�
And what are all the breeders supposed to say to someone that calls and says “I just had to put my dog to sleep. I am looking for a puppy� Are we supposed to send them to the mills or tell them we’ll put them on a year + waiting list because we imposed a moratorium on ourselves to prove a point to Peta? We already know that there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell that they will find a puppy in their breed of choice at the shelter, and if someone is calling a reputable breeder for a specific breed they probably don’t want a mix.
Lynn- why do you think reputable breeders can keep say half a dozen intact dogs in the same house and never have an accidental litter? Because we are responsible. Why does the neighbor down the street have one pet that is constantly pregnant and running loose? You can’t legislate responsibility, but you can educate people on responsible pet ownership in a positive non-judgmental way. If Peta spent their time and money doing this as a public service instead of demonizing responsible breeders, trying to pass unconstitutional laws and running around naked, they might get some respect. As it is I think the general public is tired of their extremist stance, whacky stunts, constant fund raising and photo ops. Not to mention the hypocrisy of it all. That meat locker testimony was a real eye opener for many who were under the impression their motives were in the interest of animal welfare. Let’s have a moratorium on them.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:22 am
A simple way to put puppy mills out of business is to let the I.R.S. handle it. Make profiting from the sale of cats and dogs illegal. That would separate the wheat from the chaffe right there. Yes, there would still be ‘accidents’ and not all nonprofit breeders would be top-notch, but it would put the mills and for profit BYB’s out of business.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:12 am
trucorgi wrote: “I’d be willing to bet AsocialApe has never met a reputable breeder, never been to a show, never visited a kennel club and never will. I am certain he just blindly follows Peta’s extremist rantings without gathering the facts or asking questions if he truly believes that reputable breeders are one step away from dog fighters.”
::smirk::
um. no. AsocialApe understands simple math. Follow -
Too many dogs exist.
Breeders of all stripes make more.
Now even more too many dogs exist.
all the statements about puppy millers ‘loving the breed’ is evidence that they’re a twisted lot. the breed isn’t alive, capable of joy and suffering. the breed is a set of standards some wanker came up with. so the hobby puppy millers, love a set of standards, and don’t care how many animal suffer that they might get bragging rights of having forced a dog to have N puppies until BYB lady got one that was really really close to the standard!
people that are actually kind, whether they’re in PETA, HSUS, or whatever, love _animals_ not breeds.
so keep up your self serving breeder apologist statements trucorgi, but i know, and i’m pretty sure _you_ know, that you’re FOS, and know that you and your ilk are part of the problem, and what you’re doing is immoral, and wholly self serving.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:19 am
Two responses to Lynn:
!. Many breeders do not breed a litter every year or even every two. If all reputable breeders suspended any breedings for a year no one would notice any difference at all. The mills would go on breeding away, people who want a well bred dog will wait on a list not adopt a shelter animal, and nothing would change. Since the laws PETA is trying to enact promote mills and restrict reputable breeders things might even get worse. One thing we might agree on is the question of why the AKC knowingly does business with big mills nowadays. That’s how the papers go to BYB and mill dogs. Not through breeder/show people.
2. What great things did PETA do in the eighties? Pour red paint on women wearing fur? Break into labs and set animals that could not possibly fend for themselves loose? Make terroristic threats against people? Yeah great. Give us the locations and addresses of the PETA run shelters or the names of the PETA run rescues please so we can see how many animals they are keeping alive. With all the money they collect from the naive they must have at least a few shelters we can visit. Not just the glass palace they headquarter themselves in. By the way are they going to shelter and care for the poor dogs Michael Vick tortured so they will not have to be euthanized? I would think so if they are saving lives.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:46 am
Pet over-population is not so much a breeder issue as it is a responsible ownership issue. There was a published survey a number of years ago on where most “AKC” purebred dogs originate from. Guess what? ONLY ABOUT 6% OF THE TOTAL PUREBRED POPULATION COMES FROM “BREEDERS” (both hobbyists and puppy mills). The VAST majority of purebreds come from the average single pet owner trying to make a quick buck on puppies, or who want to show their kids the “miracle of birth”. PETA could put all “breeders” out of business and it would not even put a dent in the problem! Do your research people, and stop placing blame where it doesn’t belong.
To Lynn: You are lumping irresponsible breeders in with responsible ones. If a breeder does not follow up on their puppies/contracts, they do not qualify as “reputable”. Since most purebreds come from Joe Public, you’d have to go back probably 25 generations or more to find a reputable breeder in most pedigrees. What is the root cause of purebred and mixed breed over-population? I’d say it’s an even combination of greed and ignorance. Address those things and you have a chance of making a real difference in the problem.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Just this year I stopped being a Peta member. The incident about killing puppies and throwing them in a dumpster was the last straw. Regarding pit bulls, my biggest fear is encountering one who is running loose while walking my sweet friendly dog. Too many people have seen their dogs killed. Just last week a 7 year old boy was killed by the family pit bull in Minneapolis. I’m sure there are many nice pit bulls but most are very aggressive towards other dogs That is my objection, I want my dog to be safe when I walk him.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
To sylvia September 13th, 2007 at 8:19 am:
1. All of what you say is true. One of the positive aspects that would come out of my idea is that we could easily identify most active back yard breeders, and with enough public pressure on law enforcement, crack down, and attempt to prosecute.
2. There are a number of positive things that PETA accomplished in the early days [and even today]. Perhaps you don’t consider saving lab animals an act of goodness. Of all the things they have done or not done, the one thing they have accomplished more than any other organization is to make the public aware of what is happening. PETA is an animal rights group as opposed to an animal welfare group.
To Nancy September 13th, 2007 at 8:46 am:
1. Again, definition for “reputable breeder” is a timeless debate. By your definition a breeder who can’t locate the family that bought one of the breeder’s puppies two years ago is not a reputable breeder.
2. Good, credible stats are really hard to come by.
To everyone: It’s easy to complain and point fingers. Anyone can do it. But it’s much more productive to put ideas out there that might potentially serve to resolve the problems.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:23 pm
Yes, I too would like to know what wonderful things PETA did in the eighties. They got my name when I was in college and I can’t get them and the Humane Society of the United States to stop sending me their literature and emails. I suppose I should find some joy in the money they waste sending junk mail to me.