Recall Update: Friday

Updated throughout the day.

Rice Protein Recalls:

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50 Responses to “Recall Update: Friday”

  1. KatieKat says:

    Does anyone have any idea, how other protien source meals are tested for protien content, ie fish, chiken, turkey meals??

  2. 5CatMom says:

    Hey FDA,

    “found no evidence”

    That’s FDA speak for “We haven’t tested anything, but we HOPE it’s safe”.

    What HUMAN FOOD products have you actually TESTED? When I called Campbell’s (800-257-8443) They said their wheat gluten comes from EUROPE, but didn’t know which country (Netherlands?????????).

    Note to FDA: You might want to TEST some BEEF BROTH at the plant, not in the can. The canned stuff’s already two years old.

    Note to FDA: We really don’t appreciate this GARBAGE IN - GARBAGE OUT food supply system you have created.

    Note to FDA: You guys need to issue an ALERT to US food makers so they can test their own stuff. They think you’re testing everything.

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/ne.....-headlines

    “The FDA is sampling all imports of wheat gluten from China and the Netherlands, which also received shipments from China. The agency says it has found no evidence that the wheat gluten entered the human food supply”

  3. KatieKat says:

    FDA doesn’t seem to test as a precaution, but only after deaths have occured :(

  4. zig says:

    Today I read - April 19, 2007

    STANISLAUS COUNTY — A Stanislaus County hog farm was placed under quarantine after an industrial chemical that’s tainted more than 100 brands of dog and cat food was found in pig urine there, state agriculture officials said late Thursday.

    Additional testing was under way to determine if the chemical, melamine, was present in the meat produced by American Hog Farm in Ceres since April 3, according to the California Department of Food and Agriculture.

    “Although all animals appear healthy, we are taking this action out of an abundance of caution,” State Veterinarian Dr. Richard Breitmeyer said in a statement. “It is unknown if the chemical will be detected in meat.”

    State officials believe the melamine came from rice protein concentrate imported from China by Diamond Pet Food’s Lathrop facility, which produces products under the Natural Balance brand and sold salvage pet food to the farm for pig feed.

    “Officials urged those who purchased pigs from American Hog Farm since April 3 to not consume the product until further notice.”

    Today is April 20th folks, do any of us think this has not gotten into our human food supply? Why isn’t the media all over this? Read the entire article at the link listed below.

    http://fox40.trb.com/news/ktxl.....txl-news-1

  5. KatieKat says:

    Researchers in at least three labs found cyanuric acid, amilorine and amiloride — all by-products of melamine — in the crystals of animals’ urine, tissues and kidneys, according to Dr. Brent Hoff, a veterinarian and clinical toxicologist and pathologist, at the University of Guelph, in Ontario, Canada; Richard Goldstein, associate professor of medicine at Cornell University’s College of Veterinary Medicine and a kidney specialist, and Dr. Thomas Mullaney, acting director of Michigan State University’s Center for Population and Animal Health.

    Michigan State’s lab so far has found only the amilorine and amiloride, but Mullaney said he was aware of at least three other labs finding the cyanuric acid in the animals. The FDA asked labs involved in the pet food recall to test for the three chemicals.

    Finding cyanuric acid is the more significant finding, Hoff, Goldstein and Mullaney said, although they are not yet certain how toxic it is to animals.

    The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s Web site said, “When ingested (by humans) in large amounts, the substance may have effects on the kidneys, resulting in tissue lesions.”

    Because cyanuric acid was used in pool chlorination, more scientific studies have been done on that chemical than on melamine, amilorine and amiloride, Goldstein said. However, tests in dogs and rats found it is safe, he said.

    Hoff, Goldstein and Mullaney said amilorine and amiloride were found earlier this week in low concentrations.

    The findings have not been announced yet, because officials overseeing the research are seeking confirmation from as many labs as possible, they said.

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/.....03671.html

  6. Lisa Panger says:

    I won’t be surprised if there is some in the human food supply. I would avoid all processed foods for now.

    I’m sure the FDA is doing what it can. It must be overwhelmed and undermanned for this massive recall. We’ve got to protect our ourselves.

  7. Jan says:

    I just read somewhere the following ingredients, found in pet food, are now suspect:

    whey protein isolate, soy protein isolate, soy protein concentrate, soy grits & soy lecithin

    Here we are, five weeks after the initial recall, with products still being recalled & several other ingredients are now suspected of tainting other food. When is this going to end? Is anyone investigating what other garbage we imported that could possibly have gotten into our pet’s food? Now we don’t even know what to look for that could be contaminated. It looks like it could be just about any ingredient. We need to know which pet food companies used ANY ingredients imported from China & we need to know NOW.

    Don’t know about you but I’m really angry & stressed to the max. I’m feeding Blue (not recalled one), tried another premium product that didn’t agree with her & now I don’t have a clue where to turn. Only giving her a small amount of dry & the rest is stuff I cooked for her.

    Can’t somebody get to the bottom of this without giving us information in dribbles, weeks apart? In the meantime, we are feeding poison to our beloved pets & more are getting sick & dying. WHO THE HELL IS OUT THERE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS??????

  8. Steve says:

    “Members of the Pet Food Institute support the FDA’s ongoing efforts to prevent the introduction and amplification of BSE into the United States. ….

    BUT…………………………………………………………………

    The economic damage caused by the imposition of a cautionary labeling scheme would be enormous and unnecessary since, as all government agencies recognize, BSE is not present in the United States. Therefore, PFI would urge the agency to abandon its proposal to place such a damaging cautionary statement on retail pet food and use its resources to attain its goal of 100 percent compliance with the current rule.”

    Docket No. 02N-0273

    My kid wants a Mercedes. He just got his learners permit. How can I buy my kid a Mercedes if we have to spend money on stupid consumer safety labels?

  9. 5CatMom says:

    Jan,

    Can you provide a link?

    Many thanks.

  10. 5CatMom says:

    Jan,

    Have you tried Natura or Felidae (spelling may be wrong). I’m no expert, but there’re lots of positive comments about these two.

    I’m using Natura Innova (orange bag). I called, and at least they answered my questions. They have their own dry plant, and are working to get their own wet plant. They are obviously concerned and have both the willingness and the capital to invest in new manufacturing.

    In my expierence, a “safe” company is one that is willing and able to provide the necessary management and infrastructure required for process control.

    Without very proactive management, a company that delegates it’s sourcing, manufacturing and QC to a contract plant is asking for trouble.

  11. Renee says:

    from pet connection:

    Pet Food Recall: Researchers identify three other contaminants in urine, kidneys of pets who ate recalled foods

  12. Jan says:

    5CatMom:

    Here’s the article…..quote I gave is near the bottom of the latest article.

    http://www.petconnection.com/b.....od-recall/

    I have a dog, not a cat…..neighbor bringing over Canidae this morn so I can take some & try it. I just fear for my dog’s life…..only good products I’ve seen mentioned over & over seem to be Canidae & Felidae.

    Thanks for info……man, I’m so confused & so scared for my dog………

  13. Renee says:

    the rest of the info that didn’t post:

    Toxicologists have been saying for some time now that they didn’t think melamine alone could be causing the symptoms being seen in cats and dogs eating recalled foods, and suggested it might be a marker or co-contaminant. Tonight, Karen Roebuck of the Pittsburgh Times-Review reported that researchers have:

    …identified three other contaminants in the urine and kidneys of animals sickened or killed after eating the recalled foods, including cyanuric acid, a chemical commonly used in pool chlorination, three researchers told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Cyanuric acid is what most likely sickened pets, one researcher said.

  14. zenelvis says:

    5CatMom,

    I agree about Innova, my 4 cats really like their food. Despite the fact that Natura has used Menu to make their canned food, I really have to give them a lot of credit since they have decided to no longer outsource, especially with Menu. They are the only company I know of thus far that have made the move to, in light of this crisis, pull the manufacture of their foods entirely under their own control. It is refreshing amidst all of this horrible news to see a company truly stepping up to the plate and practicing corporate resposibility.

  15. KatieKat says:

    At this time I am with Innova EVO for 3 felines and a canine, I previously fed Iams:recalled, Natural Ballance:recalled.

    I had to put them on this cold turkey and all are doing very well at this time. I am feeding both kibble and wet.

    I have emailed Natura asking if ANY of thier ingredients are sourced from China…waiting to hear back from them.

  16. menusux says:

    Just thinking–Diamond’s business address is in MO:

    http://www.diamondpet.com/contact_us/

    PO Box 156
    Meta, MO 65058

    It has plants in MO, CA and SC-

    http://www.veterinarypartner.c.....07&S=0

    “Diamond Pet Foods announced on December 20, 2005, that it had found aflatoxin in one of its products manufactured in Gaston, South Carolina. This problem affects only products manufactured in the Gaston, SC, facility. It does not affect pet food produced at the Meta, MO, or Lathrop, CA, facilities.”

    Its apparent way of doing business is to sell the waste/salvage material to local hog farmers, as it did with the aflatoxin tainted material from the SC plant in 2005-2006:

    http://72.14.209.104/search?hl.....d+pet+food

    “An inspection of your pet food manufacturing facility located at 100 Wood Trail Drive in Gaston, South Carolina was conducted by a Food and Drug Administration (FDA) investigator from December 21, 2005 through January 19, 2006. Our investigation determined that your firm manufactures various dog and products under several labels including Diamond, Country Value, Professional, and [redacted].The inspection revealed significant violations of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the Act). Our investigator documented that your firm manufactured a number of lots of dog food between September 1, and November 30, 2005, which were released for distribution in interstate commerce, that were adulterated under section 402(axl) of the Act [21 U.S.C. § 342(a)(1)] because they contained a poisonous or deleterious substance (aflatoxin) which may render them injurious to health.

    “In addition, these lots of pet food were adulterated under section 402(a)(4) [21 U.S.C.§ 342(a)(4)] of the Act. The inspection revealed that you failed to implement appropriate controls at the Gaston facility to prevent the adulteration of this pet food. The investigator also found that Gaston plant personnel failed to follow established procedures, which, if followed, could have prevented these violative lots from being distributed….

    “Our inspection also revealed that the waste or salvaged material from pet food production (scrapes) was being sold to a local hog farmer in bulk. Some of the pet food manufactured at your plant contains protein derived from mammalian tissues. This scrape product, which may contain prohibited material, was not labeled with the statement “Do not feed to cattle or other ruminants,” as required by Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR), 589.2000(d)(1) (21 CFR 589.2000(d)(1)). This regulation is intended to help prevent the establishment and amplification of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE). This labeling deviation causes the pet food scrapes you distributed to be misbranded within the meaning of section 403(a)(1) [21 U.S.C. § 343(a)(1)] of the Act…”

    By the discovery of the hogs in CA who ate the melamine-contaminated waste material from Diamond, it says the Natural Balance recalled items were not produced in MO, but in CA. It would seem then that Diamond accepted delivery of the melamine-contaminated rice protein concentrate in MO and it was transported to CA to produce the recalled NB–this is how the hogs got the melamine.

    According to law, as seen above, the waste is not to be disposed of this way, regardless of whether there’s any melamine or other substances in it or not. The rule is there to prevent the spread of BSE.

    Looks like they’ve been doing this and never stopped it–have yet to see either a reply to the violation letter above which is missing from FDA non-cached files–or any follow-ups from FDA recorded about the letter issued last year.

    Would believe the local hog farmers near the Diamond plants in CA, MO, and SC have been buying the scrap all along. Since we honestly don’t know right now (US) whether any other glutens are melamine-contaminated, looks like FDA has a bag with a HUGE hole in it–partly because no one seemed to do any follow-up on what was going on at Diamond’s SC plant from 2005-2006 and get the practice to stop.

  17. Jan says:

    OK, can one of you provide a website for Innova…..not sure what the company name is. I want to go check it out. Who makes the dry? Please don’t tell me Diamond. They are on my fecal roster for LIFE, along with Nutro, Iams, Purina, Pedigree, SD, RC, MF……did I miss any? Why doesn’t it surprise me that the jerks from Diamond sold that tainted for feed for other animals, now tainting the human food supply. Is there anyone out there that has any brains at all or is it all about money?

    Can’t wait to hear who the other two companies are who have yet to come forward. Chicken **** morons…..

  18. blkcatgal says:

    Does anyone know how these “proteins” are made? Should all “protein” be suspect? The food I’m feeding my cats has “pea protein” in it. I’m just concerned that sooner or later all these “proteins” are going to be problematic.

  19. Lorie says:

    Jan do a search engine for California natural it will bring up Innova and Evo food

  20. zenelvis says:

    Jan,

    Innova is made by Natura, same company that makes California Natural. According to Natura, they make all their own dry, and now are making their own canned. No gluten or protein concentrates, either.

    www.naturapet.com

  21. zenelvis says:

    Jan,

    Innova is made be Natura - they make all their own dry.

    www.naturapet.com

  22. Jan says:

    blkcatgal:

    This may not explain everything but gives a little insight into what these proteins are. This came from Solid Gold Health in response to an email I sent them asking if they had any glutens or proteins in their dry food:

    Gluten is the protein portion of a grain while bran is the fibrous outer covering. AAFCO defines gluten as the “tough viscid nitrogenous substance remaining when the flour of wheat or other grain is washed to remove starch”.

    Technically rice is gluten-free, however if they are washing the rice to remove the starch then they are probably calling the leftover “gluten” or “rice protein concentrate” as I have seen it on their labels.

    It is during this washing process which the gluten or protein concentrate apparently becomes contaminated. We do not wash any of our grains in any way, we prefer to use the whole grain, the bran (outer pericap, technically speaking) or the pearled (dehulled) form.

  23. Jan says:

    Thanks, Lorie….will do.

  24. Lorie says:

    Jan the only thing I have heard bad about Calf natural products besides menu making the canned is that the wet not sure if dry also have a really high ph content which is hard on some pets long term. But stilllesser of 2 evils my one cat suffers from crystals so I chose Merrick wet and still have not found a dry considering Felidae

  25. blkcatgal says:

    Anyone have an opinion on Felidae food….chicken and rice canned and/or dry? I am thinking of switching my cats to this even though one cat has food allergies.

  26. Deanna says:

    So if you really need to feed your cat dry cat food, which for certain reasons mine does, which one’s do you think I can trust?
    I’ve looked up Innova and Newman’s Own, and they both sound good, but I can’t find those locally, and can’t afford the shipping charges.
    Could some of you who have ideas email me personally at djanels@yahoo.com? I’d REALLY appreciate it.

    Thanks, Deanna

  27. 5CatMom says:

    Jan & others,

    Check with your vet on Natura’s EVO - it’s 50% protein.

    My vet advises that it’s probably fine for a healthy cat, but may not work if cat has subclinical kidney disease. He finds a lot of subclinical kidney disease.

    A blood test will reveal kidney health.

    Don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but if you don’t test, you don’t know.

    I like Natura too, but switched from EVO to Innova on advice from vet.

    Lots of great posts this morning - very helpful. I’m writing lots of letters, so the info and links is appreciated. Thanks.

  28. 5CatMom says:

    zenelvis,

    Is Natura making wet now?

    It’s been a week, or so, but last time I called them they were still working on a plant.

    If they’re making wet, that’s good news.

  29. 5CatMom says:

    Here’s link to natura website:

    http://www.naturapet.com/

  30. zenelvis says:

    5CatMom,

    Honestly, I’m not sure - what I’ve read said they will stop using Menu, and that ‘effective immediately’ they will start on acquiring their own plant. Probably warrents a call. But, I’ve been feeding my 15-year-old cat, who I just adopted 3 weeks ago, Innova wet (he only has a few of his teeth left) - and he has been fine. The good thing is, it has no gluten or grain protein in it.

    So, I’m not sure if they have stopped using Menu immediately, but I guess I’m feeling that Natura is willing to make such a positive move, I will continue to buy their food.

  31. zenelvis says:

    quote from Peter Atkins, founder and owner of Natura:

    “I want to make sure that you know that we take very seriously our responsibility to provide healthful and safe products for the thousands of dogs and cats that eat Natura pet foods. To do this effectively we must ultimately control the manufacture of ALL products that we sell. Therefore, the Natura Pet Products board of directors has authorized the immediate implementation of a plan to either acquire an existing canning operation or build a new can plant from scratch. This substantial financial commitment will insure that you, our loyal customers, can be confident in knowing that all Natura pet food products will always be of the highest quality – that we truly live up to our mission to make the healthiest pet foods in the world.”

  32. blkcatgal says:

    I just want to make sure that the food I feed my cats does not contain anything imported from China. Before I switch over to another food, does anyone know if Canidae or Natura imports any ingredients from China?

  33. zenelvis says:

    blkcatgal,

    Not sure aboutt Canidae, but this is from a recent Natura press release:

    “Natura has also instructed its buyers to utilize ingredients from domestic suppliers only.”

  34. zig says:

    Why isn’t the media on this? I just called one of my local stations in Michigan, was told they only report something when the FDA sends then an alert. Most folks I know with pets have thought the recall was over long ago - the general population has no idea what is going on.

  35. lacy says:

    Not sure if anyone can answer this, but after eating NB Venison, all three cats bloodwork came back normal for kidneys and liver. BUT in two of them their muscle enzymes were elavated. My vet says he think maybe they just had a fight or play fight before they came… I want to believe that. Does anyone know if those toxins would affect muscle enzymes instead of Kidney/liver? Also my other cat had high white blood cells and has to be checked again in 30 days. Anyone had that problem with recalled food?

  36. blkcatgal says:

    lacy, I’m glad that your cats are okay. How long were your cats eating the NB venison? Were they having any problems? My cats were eating it for close to a year…I stopped feeding it to them when the recall came in….they seem fine, but I’ve been thinking about getting them tested just to ease my mind. I tell you, this whole recall business is making me wacky!

  37. Lorie says:

    Lacy, Not sure if this is true but my vet told me the safest way to check BCB on a cat that ate the food is to have them check right away, and then in 3 to 4 weeks to see if there is a change in levels. My cats double in the 3 weeks from last exposure and test on March 23rd till the one I just had Apr 16th. No, I need to do a urine screening and bloodwork again in 30 days, she says it maybe a trend of perm damage. Just FYI. it even says on the AVMA website under instruction of what the vet should do recheck exposed pets levels within 3-4 weeks of first BCB. They are saying I think it builds up in their tissue and take awhile to get thru the kidneys.

  38. Danielle says:

    bklcatgirl,
    This is from Canidae’s website:
    It appears from the latest news within our industry that all recalls are from Glutens imported from China, a protein source that is extracted from Wheat or Rice. The wheat or rice is not the issue, but the glutens extracted, stored, and then imported from China. Again, CANIDAE does not use Glutens in any form, and we do not import any ingredients from China or overseas.

    CANIDAE Pet Foods also does not produce cuts and gravies, pouches, and does not contain corn, wheat or soybeans in any of our products or formulations, and all ingredients are of US origin, meaning proudly raised and grown in the USA.

  39. lacy says:

    blkcatgal-they were eating NB venison for about a month. They all seems ok though. No throwing up or lethargy, BUT there was a cat at the hospital that had eaten a different recalled food that didnt have any signs at all and was having kidney problems and had to be hospitilized with IVs. As a precaution I would definitely get them checked just in case! Im going crazy too! :)

    Lorie, Thanks for your info. So do you think even if they didnt have any liver or kidney elavations that they should still be rechecked in three to four weeks? On your cats first test, how were the levels?

  40. Sue J says:

    Someone - can’t find it now - asked about pea protein. Yes, that is suspect, as the company that sold the rice protein has it on their product list.

    Essentially, any ingredient that lists the name and then the word “protein’ or the word ‘gluten’ is suspect until the time you can assure yourself that it was not shipped from China.

    Calling a company and asking where they get their ingredients may or may not be helpful. Most only know what supplier they get the stuff from - and as we now know, the US suppliers have been getting much of this stuff from China. Ask specifically if they know where their MIDDLEMAN gets his products. (and truthfully, I am beyond being able to trust that the information you get on the phone is not false, and is correct)

  41. Lorie says:

    Geisha first test the day she started to show symptoms was totally normal Creatitine was 1.2 BUN was normal also not sure exact number cause they are focusing on the creatitine. So the next thing they did to her on the 26th of march was a scope and biopsy because she is only eating FF and it is not bad WINK WINK……………..biopsy comes back normal so vet finally admits she has eating some of the tainted food rechecks on Apr 16th CR level is now 2.1 which is almost double in 3 weeks enough to make vet nervous which inturn is freakin me out. Now we need to get urine speciment not fun to try and due to cat. And recheck BCB on may 17th. mean while I get to worry for another month and feel like I have a rock in my stomach. Like I said not rying to scar you but alot of people aren’t being told that it can take about 3 weeks to a month to show actually problems.

  42. blkcatgal says:

    Sue J - I’m the one that asked about pea protein. It’s in the Royal Canin IVD food that I’m currently feeding my cats. That’s what made me a little nervous about it. Not part of the recall…yet. I tried calling Royal Canin but, of course, cannot get through to talk to anyone. Think I’m going to stop feeding this to them.

  43. teric says:

    Updated:2007-04-20 01:27:57
    Pet Food May Have Been Intentionally Tainted
    By ANDREW BRIDGES
    AP

    Chinese authorities have told the FDA that the wheat gluten was an industrial product not meant for pet food, Sundlof said. Still, melamine can skew test results to make a product appear more protein-rich than it really is, he added. That raises the possibility the contamination was deliberate.

    http://news.aol.com/topnews/ar.....0000000001

  44. 4lgdfriend says:

    Menusux: WAY TO GO!! There’s the missing dots. It’s a big coverup.
    And getting bigger.

  45. jo says:

    zenelvis - don’t be holding your breath, Natura made that video message in response to the media hype about Menu Foods. Building and running a cannery could not be a piece of cake (this is why there are only a few), so it will be years…if ever…before you see Natura manufacture their own canned products. In my opinion, they hurt their ties with Menu foods in order to look better in the public eye.

  46. Abby Kelleyite says:

    This problem of inexpensively priced fraudulent protein content is apparently not a new one. A 2005 web page item/a> on a Chinese food additives exporter’s web site warns: (click NEWS button at website)

    BE CAREFUL OF PSEUDO RICE PROTEIN FEED GRADE
    Recently, we found Rice Protein Concentrate Feed Grade with very low price in market. Its appearance is White, good fineness & good looking. It make some of our customers confused aboutour Rice Protein’s appearance and price.

    After we searched in the market, we kindly inform everybody,
    This kind of product is PSEUDO rice protein, and there are 2 kinds:

    1. Inorganic nitrogen and a small part of other vegetable protein mixed together.
    2. Biuret (one of the carbamide/urea)
    How to know it is PSEUDO RICE PROTEIN: (Based on analysis)

    1. Total Nitrogen is Inorganic nitrogen.
    2. All proteins have isoelectric point. It has no isoelectric point (pI).

    Note: I have no reason to suspect this particular Chinese supplier of any wrongdoing and am pointing to its website merely to indicate that it was warning its customers of this problem in 2005.

  47. ecokitty says:

    Abby, that is so interesting re: PSUEDO rice protein. I wish “Everybody” had heard or at least, not turned a blind eye in the quest for profit. :(

    Back in 2005?? It sounds like our country just opened the door to these imports from China last year (maybe I’m wrong), but I have to wonder how long people and animals in China have been consuming the psuedo. Or maybe they reserve it just for export?

    Here’s a more direct link to what you quoted from that Chinese site:
    http://www.hetai-industry.com/news.html#1

    It would have been even better if this company specified how this concoction is made. Maybe I’m missing something.

    In general, it makes me nervous that this company distributes a food additive AS WELL AS plastics, metals, and other industrial materials. I don’t know if this is common practice everywhere, but IF contamination did happen in the way some are claiming (using same containers, washing process etc.) then I would think at a place LIKE THIS (I realize this company is NOT the accused/guilty facility) a cross-contamination was waiting to happen.

    Thanks again for this tidbit.

  48. liz odell says:

    So now Diamond is not safe? I have been feeding Diamond Hi-Energy and Beef and Rice as well as Pedigree adult small bites. I now see that Diamond has/was importing from China…so now what? Anyone know anything? Thanks, Liz

  49. petslave says:

    5catmom - I just posted on another page that according to catinfo.org, under canned foods to feed, the EVO canned cat is high in phosphorous so may not be a good one to exclusively feed.

    lacy - I just took my diabetic (diet-controlled) cat in this week as he was looking a bit shabby. His kidney functions were normal but liver & thyroid slightly high (vet put this off as trip stress) & his white cell count was above high normal. Vet prescribed amoxi & recheck in a month. Sounds suspicious. I haven’t fed mine any recalled food but they were getting Wellness canned & have fed them NB V&P recently. After reading your post, I’ll look at this as possibly more than older age changes & keep a close eye on him.

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